I'd forgotten about the 163, a bus route I never travelled on. I think it probably was a 36B you saw on the blind, because it stayed on NX's RM blinds for a while after 'just in case'! I had a ride on a NX 36B on its first day, just for the sake of it as a local route to me.
Brings back many happy memories working on the 47 from Dalston Garage. Then in the evenings and Sundays we worked from Dalston Garage to Farnborough, was one of my favourite workings then. Although on winter Sunday mornings with so much slack on the tuning times you froze as a conductor RM’s as bus was going so slow little or no heat was coming into the saloon. Then problem for new drivers was finding the stand at “The George” if they missed it and had a conductor who was unfamiliar next stop was the south coast.
Didn't know the sea had encroached into Green St. Green.
Actually, finding the turn-off for Farnborough after Locks Bottom in the dark was more of a problem for rookie drivers.
Had a few new drivers miss the turn , 1st time i was a new conductor and didnt realise eitherDidn't know the sea had encroached into Green St. Green.
I think you can be fairly sure that a pre-war RT did not work route 21. Until 1952 pre-war RTs were allocated only to three garages: Putney Bridge (F), Chelverton Road, Putney (AF) and Gillingham Street, Victoria (GM). In 1952 eighteen were allocated to New Cross (NX) but they were used on tram replacement services 163, 177 and 182. NX garage was still being converted (from a tram depot) and for a while the buses ran from Peckham but would wear NX plates with NX crews. NX(PM) did provide a small allocation of RTs for route 21 from July 1952 but only for weekend services. From June 1956 the route was served entirely from NX (proper) and Sidcup (SP), with NX providing about two thirds of the buses. But by then almost all the pre-war RTs had been withdrawn from regular service. Seven were refurbished and outshopped in Country Area Green. They went to Hertford (HG) where they provided regular services until 1957, when they were transferred to staff and training duties. Many of the others were used to provide staff buses to serve the newly opened Aldenham works. Many of the workers there had been transferred from other maintenance sites such as Chiswick, St. Albans and Charlton, and LT laid on buses for them. Others remained as trainers. In the 1960s there were still a handful of pre-war RTs to be seen here and there and I believe two or three were retained at Chiswick for use on the skid pan.
It's not quite so difficult these days
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Thanks for that, much appreciated.I think you can be fairly sure that a pre-war RT did not work route 21. Until 1952 pre-war RTs were allocated only to three garages: Putney Bridge (F), Chelverton Road, Putney (AF) and Gillingham Street, Victoria (GM). In 1952 eighteen were allocated to New Cross (NX) but they were used on tram replacement services 163, 177 and 182. NX garage was still being converted (from a tram depot) and for a while the buses ran from Peckham but would wear NX plates with NX crews. NX(PM) did provide a small allocation of RTs for route 21 from July 1952 but only for weekend services. From June 1956 the route was served entirely from NX (proper) and Sidcup (SP), with NX providing about two thirds of the buses. But by then almost all the pre-war RTs had been withdrawn from regular service. Seven were refurbished and outshopped in Country Area Green. They went to Hertford (HG) where they provided regular services until 1957, when they were transferred to staff and training duties. Many of the others were used to provide staff buses to serve the newly opened Aldenham works. Many of the workers there had been transferred from other maintenance sites such as Chiswick, St. Albans and Charlton, and LT laid on buses for them. Others remained as trainers. In the 1960s there were still a handful of pre-war RTs to be seen here and there and I believe two or three were retained at Chiswick for use on the skid pan.
Until 1942 route 21 ran from Turnpike Lane Station (Wood Green) to Farningham but the Turnpike Lane to Moorgate section was curtailed first being restricted to weekends, then to Sundays only, before being finally cut back to Moorgate (Finsbury Square) in April 1943. It remained a "long" route and as late as 1993, ran from Finsbury Square to West Kingsdown (near Brands Hatch). Ian Armstrong's excellent London Bus Routes history provides a full history of the route, together with photos, some in Finsbury Square.
It's not quite so difficult these days
View attachment 119185
I think you can be fairly sure that a pre-war RT did not work route 21. Until 1952 pre-war RTs were allocated only to three garages: Putney Bridge (F), Chelverton Road, Putney (AF) and Gillingham Street, Victoria (GM). In 1952 eighteen were allocated to New Cross (NX) but they were used on tram replacement services 163, 177 and 182. NX garage was still being converted (from a tram depot) and for a while the buses ran from Peckham but would wear NX plates with NX crews. NX(PM) did provide a small allocation of RTs for route 21 from July 1952 but only for weekend services. From June 1956 the route was served entirely from NX (proper) and Sidcup (SP), with NX providing about two thirds of the buses. But by then almost all the pre-war RTs had been withdrawn from regular service. Seven were refurbished and outshopped in Country Area Green. They went to Hertford (HG) where they provided regular services until 1957, when they were transferred to staff and training duties. Many of the others were used to provide staff buses to serve the newly opened Aldenham works. Many of the workers there had been transferred from other maintenance sites such as Chiswick, St. Albans and Charlton, and LT laid on buses for them. Others remained as trainers. In the 1960s there were still a handful of pre-war RTs to be seen here and there and I believe two or three were retained at Chiswick for use on the skid pan.
Until 1942 route 21 ran from Turnpike Lane Station (Wood Green) to Farningham but the Turnpike Lane to Moorgate section was curtailed first being restricted to weekends, then to Sundays only, before being finally cut back to Moorgate (Finsbury Square) in April 1943. It remained a "long" route and as late as 1993, ran from Finsbury Square to West Kingsdown (near Brands Hatch). Ian Armstrong's excellent London Bus Routes history provides a full history of the route, together with photos, some in Finsbury Square.
It's not quite so difficult these days
Trust me especially in the dark in the 70’s was a lot more difficult to find. Although always loved a duty that had a Dalston to Farnborough run ( except in winter )I think you can be fairly sure that a pre-war RT did not work route 21. Until 1952 pre-war RTs were allocated only to three garages: Putney Bridge (F), Chelverton Road, Putney (AF) and Gillingham Street, Victoria (GM). In 1952 eighteen were allocated to New Cross (NX) but they were used on tram replacement services 163, 177 and 182. NX garage was still being converted (from a tram depot) and for a while the buses ran from Peckham but would wear NX plates with NX crews. NX(PM) did provide a small allocation of RTs for route 21 from July 1952 but only for weekend services. From June 1956 the route was served entirely from NX (proper) and Sidcup (SP), with NX providing about two thirds of the buses. But by then almost all the pre-war RTs had been withdrawn from regular service. Seven were refurbished and outshopped in Country Area Green. They went to Hertford (HG) where they provided regular services until 1957, when they were transferred to staff and training duties. Many of the others were used to provide staff buses to serve the newly opened Aldenham works. Many of the workers there had been transferred from other maintenance sites such as Chiswick, St. Albans and Charlton, and LT laid on buses for them. Others remained as trainers. In the 1960s there were still a handful of pre-war RTs to be seen here and there and I believe two or three were retained at Chiswick for use on the skid pan.
Until 1942 route 21 ran from Turnpike Lane Station (Wood Green) to Farningham but the Turnpike Lane to Moorgate section was curtailed first being restricted to weekends, then to Sundays only, before being finally cut back to Moorgate (Finsbury Square) in April 1943. It remained a "long" route and as late as 1993, ran from Finsbury Square to West Kingsdown (near Brands Hatch). Ian Armstrong's excellent London Bus Routes history provides a full history of the route, together with photos, some in Finsbury Square.
It's not quite so difficult these days
View attachment 119185
Yes of course you are right Farningham for the 21 . Could I have read the 89 many many years back got to Biggin Hill or even Westerham ? Still beginning in Welling via Lewisham . Also the number 1 followed the 47, for quite a way more or less, and ended up at Bromley Common seem to recall.
www.londonbuses.co.uk
Trust me Dalston Garage to Farnborough was a long route , but so enjoyable to work
Thank you will take a look
Apologies I thought that might come out a bit smaller, Have you had a look at Ian Armstrong's excellent site above
Thank you so much for that, really appreciate it. I was living quite near Lee High Road at that time, and shopped in Lewisham Riverdale Centre, so used that bus station quite a bit. Intrigued the DM was working from Sidcup, an odd one out indeed. From a personal viewpoint, the DMS in the background looks much better for the contrasting upper deck colour. Oh for full blinds too, even though Lewisham to Sidcup omitted most of the places shown!
Now you've got me thinking! I honestly can't really, because I lived in Eltham (later, Bromley) and went to school in Catford, so never really went through Lewisham much other than along Lee High Road, past the Odeon (where I saw the Rolling Stones on the bottom of a bill once back in the day!) and up Lewisham Way, or on the train from Blackheath direction. I do remember the Rennell Street bus terminus with its offside parking, but that survived into the Riverdale age of course. I guess the shops and market were there, but behind them? Maybe nothing much. Sorry not to be much help - if you find out, I'd be interested to know.
That was fascinating, and all seems very feasible to me.
That was probably the Sahara(?) on Lewisham High Street, not that I ever went there. Mr Smiths was the notorious one in the area - Rushey Green, Catford, closed following a gun murder in the 1960s which may have involved a shoot-out between the Kray and Richardson gangs.
Wasn't Catford Garage used by National Express at one stage? Maybe for coach services and a few LRT contracts.
I think you can be fairly sure that a pre-war RT did not work route 21. Until 1952 pre-war RTs were allocated only to three garages: Putney Bridge (F), Chelverton Road, Putney (AF) and Gillingham Street, Victoria (GM). In 1952 eighteen were allocated to New Cross (NX) but they were used on tram replacement services 163, 177 and 182. NX garage was still being converted (from a tram depot) and for a while the buses ran from Peckham but would wear NX plates with NX crews. NX(PM) did provide a small allocation of RTs for route 21 from July 1952 but only for weekend services. From June 1956 the route was served entirely from NX (proper) and Sidcup (SP), with NX providing about two thirds of the buses. But by then almost all the pre-war RTs had been withdrawn from regular service. Seven were refurbished and outshopped in Country Area Green. They went to Hertford (HG) where they provided regular services until 1957, when they were transferred to staff and training duties. Many of the others were used to provide staff buses to serve the newly opened Aldenham works. Many of the workers there had been transferred from other maintenance sites such as Chiswick, St. Albans and Charlton, and LT laid on buses for them. Others remained as trainers. In the 1960s there were still a handful of pre-war RTs to be seen here and there and I believe two or three were retained at Chiswick for use on the skid pan.
Until 1942 route 21 ran from Turnpike Lane Station (Wood Green) to Farningham but the Turnpike Lane to Moorgate section was curtailed first being restricted to weekends, then to Sundays only, before being finally cut back to Moorgate (Finsbury Square) in April 1943. It remained a "long" route and as late as 1993, ran from Finsbury Square to West Kingsdown (near Brands Hatch). Ian Armstrong's excellent London Bus Routes history provides a full history of the route, together with photos, some in Finsbury Square.
It's not quite so difficult these days
View attachment 119185
. This is the road from the Metrobus roundabout to Farnborough village. It was probably the route of the 'old' A21. The required turn-off would be at the other end of this road. The bus driver should have been looking for a right hand turn shortly after Farnborough Hospital (now Princess Royal University Hospital), where there are apparently no signposts!
I had a few years of passing the back end of Timpson's yard on my bus to school in the 1960s once the one way system started. Eros House was built on the site of the Eros cinema, which lasted for a year or two into the 1960s ISTR. Saw the Temperance Seven at the Black Horse and Harrow: believe Whispering Paul McDowell lived in Catford.
I remember the Rennell Street terminus too, wasn't there a Cinema on the the off side of the street ?
You mentioned the P4, I do remember this route being introduced as my nan lived in Lessing Street Honor Oak Park, and the P4 originally terminated in the street at the end of hers. A short stubby bus and before that I think a Transit type bus. Went to Brixton on it a few times.
That was the Odeon. The P4 terminated at Brockley Rise originally. but I believe late running Transits terminated at Honor Oak Park. It was operated by Stockwell garage rather than Catford in those days.
Were these short Bristol LSs?
yes think so
No - short Bristol LHs - the Bristol LHS
They were given the code BS by L.T. to distinguish them from the longer and more numerous BH.
