London Underground trains should have proper corridors between coaches

[randyrippley]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-line-train-evacuation-at-clapham-common.248161/

one thing this proves is that Underground trains need proper corridors between coaches, so there's a real escape route in the event of fire

 

[AlbertBeale]

one thing this proves is that Underground trains need proper corridors between coaches, so there's a real escape route in the event of fire

And so nothing to stop the fire/fumes running along the length of the train either. I think if I was on a train with something on fire in a carriage, I'd rather have to go through a door like now, and shut it behind me, than be able to more away more quickly but have the smoke follow me...

 

[Bletchleyite]

one thing this proves is that Underground trains need proper corridors between coaches, so there's a real escape route in the event of fire

They have them. Just open the door, it isn't locked.

 

[randyrippley]

They have them. Just open the door, it isn't locked.

just a bloody big hole between the doors to fall into
it needs to be a safe corridor

 

[HSTEd]

And so nothing to stop the fire/fumes running along the length of the train either. I think if I was on a train with something on fire in a carriage, I'd rather have to go through a door like now, and shut it behind me, than be able to more away more quickly but have the smoke follow me...

MOst of the time the door is going to have to stay open to allow the evacuation to continue, and the narrow passageway is just going to slow down the evacuation and put people in greater danger.

I think the NTfL, if it ever happens, is going to the S-STock model of a continuous internal cabin, at which point people will be able to rapidly flow down the train away from the hazard.

 

[Bartsimho]

And so nothing to stop the fire/fumes running along the length of the train either. I think if I was on a train with something on fire in a carriage, I'd rather have to go through a door like now, and shut it behind me, than be able to more away more quickly but have the smoke follow me...

The S stock and EL stock have walk through corridors and it doesn't seem to be a safety concern. Of course the Deep Level Tubes are a different thing but they could be done. Although any new units will be phased so the 2009 Stock will stay until probably 2060.

 

[LOL The Irony]

And so nothing to stop the fire/fumes running along the length of the train either.

Trains with open gangways have fire doors at intervals.

I think the NTfL, if it ever happens

It is happening. Siemens are building the first trains at Wildenrath as I post.

 

[Bletchleyite]

just a bloody big hole between the doors to fall into
it needs to be a safe corridor

There are rubbing plates and handles. Admittedly it's no good for disabled people but any able bodied person would be able to use it. It's what is standard on mainline trains in e.g. Thailand.

Could it be better? Of course; I was just taking issue with people implying there was no way between coaches when in fact there is.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Trains with open gangways have fire doors at intervals.

Where are these fire doors on S stock (of either flavour)?

 

[AlbertBeale]

Where are these fire doors on S stock (of either flavour)?

Just what I was wondering....

 

[Trainbike46]

MOst of the time the door is going to have to stay open to allow the evacuation to continue, and the narrow passageway is just going to slow down the evacuation and put people in greater danger.

I think the NTfL, if it ever happens, is going to the S-STock model of a continuous internal cabin, at which point people will be able to rapidly flow down the train away from the hazard.

The 2024 stock is coming for the picadilly line (in 2025), and is a walk-through design

Piccadilly line upgrade

We're doing work to modernise the Piccadilly line and prepare for the arrival of new trains from 2025

tfl.gov.uk

Hopefully at some point they will confirm that these will come to the bakerloo line too - the 1972 stock can't keep going forever

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-line-train-evacuation-at-clapham-common.248161/

one thing this proves is that Underground trains need proper corridors between coaches, so there's a real escape route in the event of fire

In the long term all trains on the LU will get walk-through trains: the Circle, Hammersmith & City, District and Metropolitan lines already have them, and the are on the way for the picadilly line

 

[MarkyT]

The 2024 stock is coming for the picadilly line (in 2025), and is a walk-through design

Piccadilly line upgrade

We're doing work to modernise the Piccadilly line and prepare for the arrival of new trains from 2025

tfl.gov.uk

Hopefully at some point they will confirm that these will come to the bakerloo line too - the 1972 stock can't keep going forever



In the long term all trains on the LU will get walk-through trains: the Circle, Hammersmith & City, District and Metropolitan lines already have them, and the are on the way for the picadilly line

Also in London, the new CAF DLR trains are fully walkthrough. Passengers seem to like the feature for security and it allows internal redistribution to avoid overcrowding in individual cars. It probably slightly reduces boarding times too as passengers can get on at any door and walk through. I think most administrations around the world are adopting the feature on new stock.

 

[zwk500]

Also in London, the new CAF DLR trains are fully walkthrough. Passengers seem to like the feature for security and it allows internal redistribution to avoid overcrowding in individual cars. It probably slightly reduces boarding times too as passengers can get on at any door and walk through. I think most administrations around the world are adopting the feature on new stock.

Also seen on mainline stock that runs metro-type operations - Class 378, 777 and the Desiro City family among others.

 

[MarkyT]

Also seen on mainline stock that runs metro-type operations - Class 378, 777 and the Desiro City family among others.

Even the Stadler UK FLIRTS have a fairly open gangway between adjacent passenger cars over the articulated bogies, not as wide over the full height as typical metro units but gives a similar impression, uniting the saloons. Through the vroom cupboard is more limited, clearly!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where are these fire doors on S stock (of either flavour)?

They don't have any, instead the ventilation system is designed to isolate individual coaches to the extent feasible (though if power was totally lost this may not work?)