London Underground: Tube and bus fares see biggest hike in a decade

[Doppelganger]

As the title suggests.

Although any rise is bad, London fares are really very good value when compared to places outside London

London Underground: Tube and bus fares see biggest hike in a decade

Ticket prices across the London Underground network will rise from 1 March, Sadiq Khan has said.

www.bbc.com

Tube and bus fares are to be increased by an average of almost 5%, London Mayor Sadiq Khan has announced.
The hike matches the current inflation rate and is the biggest annual jump in Transport for London (TfL) fares in a decade, when Boris Johnson was mayor.
Single Tube fares using Oyster or Contactless tickets will rise by 10p in Zone 1 and between 10p to 30p across the rest of the Underground network.
Mr Khan said he had done everything "to keep fares as affordable as possible". The fares will rise from 1 March and see an increase across all TfL services averaging at 4.8%, Mr Khan said. The move is in line with government orders as part of TfL's bailout conditions, driven by the need to rebuild its finances following the Covid pandemic. The last time fares rose on this scale was when Mr Johnson increased them by almost 6% in 2012. Key changes:
Pay-as-you-go Tube fares in Zone 1 up 10p to £2.50
Hopper bus fare that allows multiple journeys within an hour increases 10p to £1.65
Daily cap on multiple pay-as-you-go Tube journeys rises 3.8%
Daily cap on bus journeys up 30p to £4.95
Emirates Cable Car up 25% to £5, with return tickets axed
Minimum cash fare on the Tube up 80p to £6.30. Mr Khan held TfL single pay-as-you-go prices in his first four years as mayor as part of his "fares freeze" policy. But he increased them by an average of 2.6% in March last year.

"Since TfL's finances were decimated by the pandemic, the government has set strict conditions as part of the emergency funding deals to keep essential transport services running in London," Mr Khan said.

 

[greyman42]

Does anyone know if the staff priv fare is going to increase on the tube?

 

[miklcct]

As the title suggests.

Although any rise is bad, London fares are really very good value when compared to places outside London

London Underground: Tube and bus fares see biggest hike in a decade

Ticket prices across the London Underground network will rise from 1 March, Sadiq Khan has said.

www.bbc.com

London fares are already much more expensive compared to other similar metropolis elsewhere in the world!

 

[JonathanH]

London fares are already much more expensive compared to other similar metropolis elsewhere in the world!

The bus fares are cheaper than in any other UK town or city.

 

[bramling]

London fares are already much more expensive compared to other similar metropolis elsewhere in the world!

I’m not sure it’s that easy to make a comparison. Britain is an expensive country, increasingly so, and part of the reason for this is the heavy population density, especially in the south-east.

We could subsidise niceties like cheap fares through general taxation, but we’re also quite highly taxed, or perhaps it’s fairer to say our levels of tax impose a heavy burden when everything else is already expensive.

As a country we’re operating way beyond the point of being self-sustaining, which makes us rather vulnerable. If we want certain things then I suspect there will need to be increasingly hard choices made.

 

[theking]

That's what happens with his election grabbing fare freeze.

Even without covid tfl would have been in trouble because of his policies.

 

[Mawkie]

That's what happens with his election grabbing fare freeze.

Even without covid tfl would have been in trouble because of his policies.

This is utter nonsense. From memory, the fares freeze cost iro £640m over 4 years - what significant impact do you think £160m has on a £10.3bn operating budget?

On your second point...

"Our net cost of operations in 2018/19 will be one third of what it was in 2015/16, if the operating grant is excluded. This consistently strong performance shows we are on the right trajectory to deliver a surplus on net cost of operations by 2022/23."
Simon Kilonback, Chief Finance Officer

The budget forecast from 2019/20 is linked below under 27th March 2019. The budget starts on page 211.

TfL was in a much better financial position than it was when the previous Mayor left in 2016.

Board papers

Agendas and minutes from our most recent board meetings

tfl.gov.uk

 

[bakerstreet]

This is utter nonsense. From memory, the fares freeze cost iro £640m over 4 years - what significant impact do you think £160m has on a £10.3bn operating budget?

On your second point...

"Our net cost of operations in 2018/19 will be one third of what it was in 2015/16, if the operating grant is excluded. This consistently strong performance shows we are on the right trajectory to deliver a surplus on net cost of operations by 2022/23."
Simon Kilonback, Chief Finance Officer

The budget forecast from 2019/20 is linked below under 27th March 2019. The budget starts on page 211.

TfL was in a much better financial position than it was when the previous Mayor left in 2016.

Board papers

Agendas and minutes from our most recent board meetings

tfl.gov.uk

Thanks for posting this information.

As a Londoner, and although Im reasonably ok financially, I know many who are really struggling and who would be sad and frustrated at the comments on here hoping for significant rises in transport costs in an area in which (in most cases) the posters do not reside.

Of course the posters have free choice over what they post.

To those who keep posting that London fares are too cheap, I do not wish the same high percentage rises you ask for in my city in your local areas. I wish this:

MAYOR of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham has called for 'London-level' bus fares across the North, with a standard £1.55 fare for a single journey.

I believe this should be standard across the entire country.

OPINION: 'London-level' fares should be rolled out across Britain

MAYOR of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham has called for 'London-level' bus fares across the North, with a standard £1.55 fare for a single journey.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

 

[miklcct]

Thanks for posting this information.

As a Londoner, and although Im reasonably ok financially, I know many who are really struggling and who would be sad and frustrated at the comments on here hoping for significant rises in transport costs in an area in which (in most cases) the posters do not reside.

Of course the posters have free choice over what they post.

To those who keep posting that London fares are too cheap, I do not wish the same high percentage rises you ask for in my city in your local areas. I wish this:

OPINION: 'London-level' fares should be rolled out across Britain

MAYOR of Greater Manchester Andy Burnham has called for 'London-level' bus fares across the North, with a standard £1.55 fare for a single journey.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

A flat fare of £1.55 will not work across the country. Honestly, I can't think how a £1.55 fare can be sustainable on a route more than 50 km between Bournemouth - Salisbury where a significant portion of passengers travel on the whole of the route. What I hope to see is to abolish return fares mainly, and a slight reduction on single fares.

 

[rebmcr]

London fares are already much more expensive compared to other similar metropolis elsewhere in the world!

The bus fares are cheaper than in any other UK town or city.

It sounds like you are implying that fares should normalise at the worst level demonstrated, rather than the best...

 

[lachlan]

It sounds like you are implying that fares should normalise at the worst level demonstrated, rather than the best...

Indeed. London fares aren't too cheap, public transport fares everywhere else are too expensive.

 

[PeterC]

The trouble with freezing prices for anything is that you always have to catch up with a large percentage increase after a few years.

 

[Doppelganger]

To those who keep posting that London fares are too cheap, I do not wish the same high percentage rises you ask for in my city in your local areas. I wish this:

I think it's fair to say London fares are a lot cheaper than anywhere else in the UK.

If you aren't traveling in zone one, then it is cheaper still.

No one wants increased transport costs, but Londoners have to accept they have a very well priced fare structure and yes it would be nice if other cities followed suit

 

[lachlan]

The trouble with freezing prices for anything is that you always have to catch up with a large percentage increase after a few years.

You say that, but fuel duty has been frozen since 2011 with no sign of an increase any time soon.

 

[bakerstreet]

I think it's fair to say London fares are a lot cheaper than anywhere else in the UK.

If you aren't traveling in zone one, then it is cheaper still.

No one wants increased transport costs, but Londoners have to accept they have a very well priced fare structure and yes it would be nice if other cities followed suit

Yes, although the points made above, that the accounts show were it not for Covid TfL would have been very close to delivering a surplus surely means that we’re paying the right amount.
It’s clear that something needs to change because of Covid. Perhaps rises can be reversed or paused if ridership continues to increase.

But the repeated points criticising London fares on here have all referenced that public transport in London is too cheap full stop.

If the financial position in TfL is as described and that the fares freeze corresponds to £160m on a £10.3bn operating budget, and TfL were almost at surplus, why are fares not expensive enough in London?

For the purpose of this point I’m excluding the Covid passenger number falls which has affected every transport provider everywhere.

 

[miklcct]

Indeed. London fares aren't too cheap, public transport fares everywhere else are too expensive.

On the coming Saturday I have to pay £4.50 for a single (Stagecoach number 34) for an approximately 10 km trip from Woking to Guildford College despite having a train ticket valid between Woking - Guildford just because the train doesn't run at the time I want (07:26 arrival into Woking), and train tickets aren't valid on local buses! And a single train ticket from Woking - Guildford is only £4.20!

Basically a rip off just because SWR doesn't bother to run a train between 06:44 - 07:51, but it ran two trains scheduled 6 minutes apart at 06:38 - 06:44!!!!!

The trouble with freezing prices for anything is that you always have to catch up with a large percentage increase after a few years.

A bus company entered the Hong Kong market using low fares in the 90s, and froze the fare for more than 20 years (with a fare increase application rejected in 2008 due to profitability), but it now has large percentage increase in recent years since new railways no longer make the then-network profitable as most of its routes relied on short-hop passengers connecting to the railway stations, which could fill buses full every 4 minutes in peak hours.

 

[endicomark69@g]

I'm reading the same "Londoners have it too good, make them pay more," stuff and wondering why this way round seems appealing when "public transport is too expensive elsewhere and needs more support to bring it into line with the Capital" isn't the default for anyone that professes to care about Transport, the Environment and Equality?

We are a heavily taxed country, and the core reasons for this NEVER seem to be those up for debate any time fares policy/subsidy/rises occur. It's all about who exactly pays what tax and who doesn't, and why a more sensible share of that take isn't allocated to policies within Transport that benefit the greatest number......everywhere.

Putting a greater burden on those that use Transport in London won't do anything except make life worse, it won't benefit ANYONE outside London one jot either.

It's about time we did away with the race-to-the-bottom mentality, it's a National curse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm reading the same "Londoners have it too good, make them pay more," stuff and wondering why this way round seems appealing when "public transport is too expensive elsewhere and needs more support to bring it into line with the Capital" isn't the default for anyone that professes to care about Transport, the Environment and Equality?

We are a heavily taxed country, and the core reasons for this NEVER seem to be those up for debate any time fares policy/subsidy/rises occur. It's all about who exactly pays what tax and who doesn't, and why a more sensible share of that take isn't allocated to policies within Transport that benefit the greatest number......everywhere.

We're not. Part of the problem is that we are not. A higher rate of taxation would allow for higher quality public services and for them to be cheaper at the point of use.

 

[theking]

This is utter nonsense. From memory, the fares freeze cost iro £640m over 4 years - what significant impact do you think £160m has on a £10.3bn operating budget?

The operating budget is irrelevant.

£640m is a massive amount of money.

According to you if £160 million is such an INSIGNIFICANT amount then why is Khan increasing fares and it's estimated that it will bring in LESS than what his fare freeze cost per year. Its estimated to bring in £151 million to tfl.


His election grabbing fare freeze meant there was £160 million pounds a year less investment in tfl.

 

[bramling]

We're not. Part of the problem is that we are not. A higher rate of taxation would allow for higher quality public services and for them to be cheaper at the point of use.

Yet on the other hand there were people protesting in my town last Saturday about the high cost of living. Increasing tax would make this even worse.

It doesn’t help that our tax has just paid for young, healthy and low-risk people to be off work for potentially 18 months. I’m afraid for as long as our tax can be easily frittered away on stuff like that, I’m averse to paying more. There needs to be a pretty good case for increasing tax, and part of that is demonstrating that where it goes is a worthwhile cause.

 

[rebmcr]

According to you if £160 million is such an INSIGNIFICANT amount then why is Khan increasing fares

Because the ministers at the DfT are pulling strings, and they're doing it because they're ideologically opposed to Khan, not because it's the right thing for taxpayers (which it isn't).

 

[bramling]

Because the ministers at the DfT are pulling strings, and they're doing it because they're ideologically opposed to Khan, not because it's the right thing for taxpayers (which it isn't).

From the language we've heard, it's pretty clear this is indeed largely ideological, both against Khan, and also to some extent I believe it's also against London which has increasingly voted Labour in recent years, including in areas which haven't traditionally returned Labour MPs.

This is one of the reasons I dislike Johnson. Governments are supposed to be for everyone, including those who didn't vote for them. This conduct is simply another example of the standards of our public life and institutions becoming debased.

If the government is that unhappy with the Mayoral influence, they should do the decent thing and either ditch the mayoralty, or at least put that on their next manifesto.

It's also a risky policy both for the Conservatives, and Johnson himself, as it must surely be alienating the remaining London seats, and I don't think it's playing out too well in the wider south-east either. Anything like a boundary charge is almost certain to cost Johnson his Uxbridge seat, which I'd say is already in a vulnerable position electorally. I think Johnson is simply too arrogant to recognise all this.

That said, the fares freeze wasn't a sensible policy.

 

[miklcct]

the fares freeze wasn't a sensible policy

A fare freeze was a sensible policy as it could be predicted that passenger numbers were growing, investments were made to increase system efficiency, etc. But the pandemic stopped all these from happening.

 

[endicomark69@g]

The operating budget is irrelevant.

£640m is a massive amount of money.

According to you if £160 million is such an INSIGNIFICANT amount then why is Khan increasing fares and it's estimated that it will bring in LESS than what his fare freeze cost per year. Its estimated to bring in £151 million to tfl.


His election grabbing fare freeze meant there was £160 million pounds a year less investment in tfl.

Election grabbing = Oh no, my side lost and now I'm duty bound to keep pretending THIS one thing was the most terrible stab in the groin ever inflicted on London. Because.

If Goldsmith hadn't been beholden to the Osborne/Bozo stitch up on TfL's funding deal he could have thought of this, and not had to rely on dog-whistling at Bromley and Bexley to somehow miraculously overcome the Rest of London.

The whole £641M amounts to a couple of weeks funding. And people voted for it. Carry on pretending that makes a huge difference in an Economy where we write off £4.8Bn on "loans" we are suddenly too lax and stupid to claw back. Because.

 

[ChrisC]

Indeed. London fares aren't too cheap, public transport fares everywhere else are too expensive.

Completely agree.

I don’t use the bus service very often through the village where I live in Nottinghamshire because I find it too expensive for short journeys. It isn’t quite so bad for longer journeys because a day ticket covers the fare. If I used the bus to go to the shops in the next village, just under 2 miles away, it costs £3.10 single, for a journey which takes 4 minutes. Even if I return on the next bus, well within an hour, that still works out at £6.20 return. The only alternative is to use my car as it’s a busy, hilly and winding road, where walking or cycling are not really safe options.

A similar return journey in London, with the hopper fare, would be £1.55. Soon to be rising to £1.65. Being used to high fares in a rural area, I find that unbelievably cheap. However, I think the fares on buses in rural areas are ridiculously high and they need to be reduced considerably. London fares may be cheap in comparison but the fares in many parts of the country are unreasonably high.

 

[Non Multi]

London fares are already much more expensive compared to other similar metropolis elsewhere in the world!

The peak rail commuters crammed in like sardines in zone 1 subsidised everything that's unprofitable for TfL, including the remarkably cheap bus fares (in a UK context).

Completely agree.

I don’t use the bus service very often through the village where I live in Nottinghamshire because I find it too expensive for short journeys. It isn’t quite so bad for longer journeys because a day ticket covers the fare. If I used the bus to go to the shops in the next village, just under 2 miles away, it costs £3.10 single, for a journey which takes 4 minutes. Even if I return on the next bus, well within an hour, that still works out at £6.20 return. The only alternative is to use my car as it’s a busy, hilly and winding road, where walking or cycling are not really safe options.

A similar return journey in London, with the hopper fare, would be £1.55. Soon to be rising to £1.65. Being used to high fares in a rural area, I find that unbelievably cheap. However, I think the fares on buses in rural areas are ridiculously high and they need to be reduced considerably. London fares may be cheap in comparison but the fares in many parts of the country are unreasonably high.

So you'd be happy for everyone to get a hike in Council Tax to fund "cheap" bus fares like London, because that's what London taxpayers are having to fork out for now TfL's business model has imploded.

 

[lachlan]

So you'd be happy for everyone to get a hike in Council Tax to fund "cheap" bus fares like London, because that's what London taxpayers are having to fork out for now TfL's business model has imploded.

Yes, or better still raise fuel duty and sort out a proper way to tax electric car users.

 

[bramling]

A fare freeze was a sensible policy as it could be predicted that passenger numbers were growing, investments were made to increase system efficiency, etc. But the pandemic stopped all these from happening.

TFL has been under financial pressure for some years now. For example, a decade or so Piccadilly fleet replacement was put off due to lack of funds.

So TFL is short of funds, has two of the oldest fleets of trains in the country, and a massive cost over-run on sub-surface resignalling after changing suppliers twice, how about let's freeze fares and reduce income!

 

[Doppelganger]

Yes, or better still raise fuel duty and sort out a proper way to tax electric car users.

The issues we have had over the past decade is that central government has reduced money it would give to local councils.

It's well documented and the result is that local councils have to cut services, such as libraries, sports centres and of course public transport. One way to mitigate the effect is to raise council tax and bus fares etc, which aren't popular. What they are however, are blamed on the local council, which if it is Labour then they are the ones vilified.

And so we come full circle, TFL put their fares up and Khan, a Labour mayor is held responsible.

 

[bramling]

The issues we have had over the past decade is that central government has reduced money it would give to local councils.

It's well documented and the result is that local councils have to cut services, such as libraries, sports centres and of course public transport. One way to mitigate the effect is to raise council tax and bus fares etc, which aren't popular. What they are however, are blamed on the local council, which if it is Labour then they are the ones vilified.

And so we come full circle, TFL put their fares up and Khan, a Labour mayor is held responsible.

Sounds like one of a number of good reasons to ditch the mayoralty. An extra layer of blurred accountability.