London's Future Transport Post-Covid

[LonTravelWatch]

Hi everybody. This is Luke from the London TravelWatch: the statutory transport watchdog for London.

We have just begun a piece of work where we will be asking businesses, politicians and members of the public what they think the future of London's transport is going to look like post-Covid.

If you have an opinion on this we'd love to hear from you.

We've put together a short survey to try and gauge people's thoughts, and we'd be very grateful if you could fill it out for us: survey.

We want to get as many people's ideas as possible, so please feel free to share it with friends, family or anyone else you think might want to share their views on this.

We will then review all the responses and use it as the evidence base for our next round of work on the subject. We will also be holding a public event in early December to discuss the findings and also hear from a range of speakers from all different walks of life about their views and how this correlates with the information we have gathered.

The event will be freely available to view on YouTube, and we will post more details closer to the time.

In the meantime, if you could please let us know your thoughts and share our survey with as many people who would be interested we would very much appreciate it.

All views are welcome. There is no right or wrong answer to this as at this stage nobody know what's going to happen. Thank you in advance for taking the time to help us with this.

Best regards,

Luke Muskett
London TravelWatch

 

[ScotGG]

Govt want to decimate TfL and centralise power in Whitehall. The future is pretty bleak.

Bakerloo Line extension looks like now not happening, or arriving mid 2030s despite hundreds of thousands of people moving along the planned route (many towers already approved). Fares look like shooting up way above inflation (I've heard 5 per cent next year) which is a terrible move for encouraging people back after covid.

Some outside London will no doubt rejoice, when they should be asking why their areas do not have the service levels of London (which still lacks investment plans compared to, say, Paris) rather than dragging London down to the poor levels so often seen outside.

I write this as someone who has lived in the north, the south, and in between! Ultimately, the UK govt doesn't see infrastructure and affordable mass transport as a priority. Where it is successful, they seem to want to stifle it.

 

[PeterC]

The survey seemed rather simplistic and didn't address post-covid issues.

Once all the restrictions are off I think it will take about a year before journey to work patterns settle down. There will be some rebalancing of commuting but I suspect that this will affect travelling from the Home Counties and the outer boroughs more than travelling inside the North and South Circulars. Some employers will be trying to push working from home while others (or quite probably managers within the same organisations) will be trying to reintroduce a presenteeism culture.

 

[Class 170101]

Govt want to decimate TfL and centralise power in Whitehall. The future is pretty bleak.

If they want do that why don't the Conservative Government judt abolish the GLA as they did with the GLC in the early 1980s?

The survey seemed rather simplistic and didn't address post-covid issues.

Once all the restrictions are off I think it will take about a year before journey to work patterns settle down. There will be some rebalancing of commuting but I suspect that this will affect travelling from the Home Counties and the outer boroughs more than travelling inside the North and South Circulars. Some employers will be trying to push working from home while others (or quite probably managers within the same organisations) will be trying to reintroduce a presenteeism culture.

Unfortunately I have to agree it was a poor quality survey and doesn't addess the issues that need to be resolved nor the post covid world whenever that may appear.

 

[3141]

Sorry to say that I also think the survey is feeble, and hardly addresses the issues that the OP said it was about. 4 out of the 8 questions aren't about transport in London at all, but about the profile of the person completing it. If that's representative of the level of thought in London Travelwatch they won't amount to much.

 

[david1212]

Having looked I agree with the responses above.

The questions I expected to be included were
Looking ahead long term compared to before March 2020
- do you expect to make the same number of journeys or significantly fewer ?
- if there was a large increase in fares would this change your answer ?
- if there was a large reduction in the service frequency would this change your answer ?

 

[LonTravelWatch]

Thanks for all your comments. If you want to give us a more detailed answer on the future of London's transport then please email us at [email protected]. You can also view our briefing note on our website here. Thank you.

 

[E6007]

Govt want to decimate TfL and centralise power in Whitehall. The future is pretty bleak.

Bakerloo Line extension looks like now not happening, or arriving mid 2030s despite hundreds of thousands of people moving along the planned route (many towers already approved). Fares look like shooting up way above inflation (I've heard 5 per cent next year) which is a terrible move for encouraging people back after covid.

Some outside London will no doubt rejoice, when they should be asking why their areas do not have the service levels of London (which still lacks investment plans compared to, say, Paris) rather than dragging London down to the poor levels so often seen outside.

I write this as someone who has lived in the north, the south, and in between! Ultimately, the UK govt doesn't see infrastructure and affordable mass transport as a priority. Where it is successful, they seem to want to stifle it.

Remember as there's a London Mayoral election next May (COVID-19 permitting), the Government will try anything to gain an advantage over the current Labour Mayor.

Re the Bakerloo Line extension, it has never been happening, just lots of plans. It was not even included in TfL's ask for the Comprehensive Spending Review (which itself has been cancelled!).

 

[gaillark]

The survey is rather feeble.

I have not heard anything from TfL about any "savings". Any business in the private sector would have to cut back in order to keep afloat.
With reduced demand economies will have to be made and as a London Council Tax payer I am not prepared to give TfL a single penny in increased council tax for transport.
TfL in my opinion does not do a good job.

There are too many buses clogging up roads running with a handful of passengers. Lots of duplicated routes. Give millions of pounds to London Council's for unnecessary traffic calming schemes that creates more congestion. Hundreds of staff being paid top dollar salaries over £100k. Don't participate in Delay Repay but offer their meagre service delay compensation with lots of exclusions. New trains such as class 710 are uncomfortable and poorly designed. Mayor Khan's hell bent on anti-car getting rid of station car parks only for flats to be built on former car parks despite the loss of income - London needs more family houses not flats everywhere so if I can't park at my local station then its easier to drive to coin TfL's phrase every journey matters. Blackhorse Road had over 800 car parking spaces fully occupied at an average £6 per day - income loss from this car park closure alone around £1.6m pa - now all flats. Massive overspend on CrossRail.

Strategic Roads were better when managed by the former Highways Agency. Since TfL had taken over many good schemes to avoid congestion on the north circular road were cancelled.
Public transport usage post covid will not recover to its former levels and fancy schemes such as crossrail 2 will have to be put on the back burner and economies will have to be made. Taxpayer cannot continue to subside eyewatering amounts indefinately. The Freedom Pass is a good scheme but it should not be used to transport people for free (except disabled holders) during peak periods. It always was after 0930 and not between 1600 and 1900.
I don't think I'll get one when I am 60 as it will be moved to age 67+.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

The survey is rather feeble.

I have not heard anything from TfL about any "savings". Any business in the private sector would have to cut back in order to keep afloat.
With reduced demand economies will have to be made and as a London Council Tax payer I am not prepared to give TfL a single penny in increased council tax for transport.
TfL in my opinion does not do a good job.

There are too many buses clogging up roads running with a handful of passengers. Lots of duplicated routes. Give millions of pounds to London Council's for unnecessary traffic calming schemes that creates more congestion. Hundreds of staff being paid top dollar salaries over £100k. Don't participate in Delay Repay but offer their meagre service delay compensation with lots of exclusions. New trains such as class 710 are uncomfortable and poorly designed. Mayor Khan's hell bent on anti-car getting rid of station car parks only for flats to be built on former car parks despite the loss of income - London needs more family houses not flats everywhere so if I can't park at my local station then its easier to drive to coin TfL's phrase every journey matters. Blackhorse Road had over 800 car parking spaces fully occupied at an average £6 per day - income loss from this car park closure alone around £1.6m pa - now all flats. Massive overspend on CrossRail.

Strategic Roads were better when managed by the former Highways Agency. Since TfL had taken over many good schemes to avoid congestion on the north circular road were cancelled.
Public transport usage post covid will not recover to its former levels and fancy schemes such as crossrail 2 will have to be put on the back burner and economies will have to be made. Taxpayer cannot continue to subside eyewatering amounts indefinately. The Freedom Pass is a good scheme but it should not be used to transport people for free (except disabled holders) during peak periods. It always was after 0930 and not between 1600 and 1900.
I don't think I'll get one when I am 60 as it will be moved to age 67+.

A spirited and pretty accurate assessment of TfL. I've been convinced for a long time that TfL appears better the further away from it you are. People living outside London have a far higher opinion of TfL than many Londoners do.

 

[Taunton]

We live in Docklands. The DLR and Underground work well, the buses and TfL-managed roads are pretty poor stuff. There are plenty of buses but mostly empty and they don't seem to go anywhere useful. The whole of TfL seems overstaffed. Unlike many of the rest of us, I think they have all held onto their jobs through the pandemic at full pay, despite losing most of their customers and in some cases having bu99er all to do.

Speaking of pretty poor stuff, so is this survey. Multiple commentators above said the same, with words like "feeble", to just get some pangloss-autospeak response at post 7 above from London Travelwatch, completely ignoring what anyone has said. I suppose they get their approach from TfL's "consultations".

 

[Horizon22]

The survey is rather feeble.

Strategic Roads were better when managed by the former Highways Agency. Since TfL had taken over many good schemes to avoid congestion on the north circular road were cancelled.
Public transport usage post covid will not recover to its former levels and fancy schemes such as crossrail 2 will have to be put on the back burner and economies will have to be made. Taxpayer cannot continue to subside eyewatering amounts indefinately. The Freedom Pass is a good scheme but it should not be used to transport people for free (except disabled holders) during peak periods. It always was after 0930 and not between 1600 and 1900.
I don't think I'll get one when I am 60 as it will be moved to age 67+.

Crossrail 2 has already been put on the backburner - they have at (the very) least safeguarded the route. It's a very disappointing state of affairs as once again the government has decided to shift any support away from TfL despite almost every major capital in Europe receiving a central grant. It's clear the government wants to force TfL to try and be self-sufficient even though that isn't feasible without major cuts or fare/tax hikes. This will be damaging, although modest changes to service and fares are reasonable - the fare freeze by Khan was a populist move and didn't tie in well with the planned infrastructure improvements (Bakerloo line extension, tram upgrade etc.). I too am not keen on a significant council tax rise again.

Agreed that the survey is a bit wishy-washy.

 

[HSTEd]

Ultimately TfL are in a difficult position, they have a very expensive fixed cost network (the tube, DLR, crossrail, tramlink etc) and a very expensive variable cost network (the buses) that interact in various ways.

The chief problem is it seems unlikely for transport demand to return to levels it once saw, which means the traditional argument of the buses taking local journeys off the rail solution starts to look a bit shaky.
The rail side's operating surplus, assuming the tube even manages to obtain a surplus in the future, will be unable to support a comprehensive bus system, which is in any case crippled by ever slower journey times.

There is no easy way out of this, but perhaps it might be best to double down on the concept of the hopper fare, dramatically reduce the number of bus routes and encourage rapid exchange between bus "lines", and between the buses and the rail side of the operation. To the point of building isolated sections of true Bus Rapid Transit of the type seen in South America, at least around major interchanges.

Even if tube fares have to drop to drive more of the remaining patronage onto it, you can move people far more cheaply on rail systems you already have than on the bus system, long term.
Also whether or not automating the tube is actually value for money, it is a political concession that might be able to unlock more central government support in future, which may make it worth it whatever your view on the economic factors in isolation is.

(ie. Retaining fully staffed tubes should not be an absolute requirement, it is, at the end of the day, a chip to be potentially traded like everything else).

 

[NorthKent1989]

The DLR extension to Thamesmead has been prioritised over the Bakerloo extension by the looks of things, frankly I agree with this, Thamesmead is a large area with no rail link, the nearest is Abbey Wood, but there needs to be a Station in Thamesmead itself

Relief as ‘vital’ DLR extension to Thamesmead kept on TfL’s project list

The planned extension of the Docklands Light Railway to Thamesmead has been praised as a “vital” part of London’s recovery from coronavirus,…

www.newsshopper.co.uk

 

[HSTEd]

The DLR extension to Thamesmead has been prioritised over the Bakerloo extension by the looks of things, frankly I agree with this, Thamesmead is a large area with no rail link, the nearest is Abbey Wood, but there needs to be a Station in Thamesmead itself

Relief as ‘vital’ DLR extension to Thamesmead kept on TfL’s project list

The planned extension of the Docklands Light Railway to Thamesmead has been praised as a “vital” part of London’s recovery from coronavirus,…

www.newsshopper.co.uk

It would be an interesting design exercise to determine what extension of the rail system in London would achieve the biggest reduction in required bus mileage per pound spent.

EDIT:

I've been trying to find an up to date version of this london bus map, but one doesn't appear to exist.
If your network is so sprawling that such a map can't be made feasibly, then perhaps your network is too sprawling.

 

[Taunton]

Over time the London bus network has been tuned back to minimise what it duplicates of the railway routes. For example, from where we are at Canary Wharf, in sight of The City, none of the buses go there, instead running mainly north-south across the radial rail routes and often doing convoluted journeys in so doing which carry few passengers.

This really set in when bus fares became a single flat fare, and the routes were slowly realigned so there was little scope to use them to substitute for rail services which have multi-zone charges. Yes if you do two bus journeys it's on one fare, but if you do bus feeder followed by Underground you have to pay twice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

if you do bus feeder followed by Underground you have to pay twice.

Which is another fares thing that needs fixing as it discourages the use of buses for precisely the thing they are good at. The "hopper" fare was a good start, but really it should be one fare set for everything.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Over time the London bus network has been tuned back to minimise what it duplicates of the railway routes. For example, from where we are at Canary Wharf, in sight of The City, none of the buses go there, instead running mainly north-south across the radial rail routes and often doing convoluted journeys in so doing which carry few passengers.

This really set in when bus fares became a single flat fare, and the routes were slowly realigned so there was little scope to use them to substitute for rail services which have multi-zone charges. Yes if you do two bus journeys it's on one fare, but if you do bus feeder followed by Underground you have to pay twice.

Some trunk bus routes still parallel rail routes in sections, the 53 is basically the bus version of the inner sections of the North Kent & Greenwich lines, the 25 mirrors the eastern section of CrossRail/Great Eastern suburban services.

 

[squizzler]

The survey is rather feeble.

I have not heard anything from TfL about any "savings". Any business in the private sector would have to cut back in order to keep afloat.
With reduced demand economies will have to be made and as a London Council Tax payer I am not prepared to give TfL a single penny in increased council tax for transport.
TfL in my opinion does not do a good job.

There are too many buses clogging up roads running with a handful of passengers. Lots of duplicated routes. Give millions of pounds to London Council's for unnecessary traffic calming schemes that creates more congestion. Hundreds of staff being paid top dollar salaries over £100k. Don't participate in Delay Repay but offer their meagre service delay compensation with lots of exclusions. New trains such as class 710 are uncomfortable and poorly designed. Mayor Khan's hell bent on anti-car getting rid of station car parks only for flats to be built on former car parks despite the loss of income - London needs more family houses not flats everywhere so if I can't park at my local station then its easier to drive to coin TfL's phrase every journey matters. Blackhorse Road had over 800 car parking spaces fully occupied at an average £6 per day - income loss from this car park closure alone around £1.6m pa - now all flats. Massive overspend on CrossRail.

The city needs a mix of houses and flats, and the denser population associated with flats (and service businesses, etc) are better placed near the stations with lower density houses further away in concentric rings of journey generation per unit of land area. This is recognised idea known as 'Transit Orientated Development'.

Strategic Roads were better when managed by the former Highways Agency. Since TfL had taken over many good schemes to avoid congestion on the north circular road were cancelled.
Public transport usage post covid will not recover to its former levels and fancy schemes such as crossrail 2 will have to be put on the back burner and economies will have to be made. Taxpayer cannot continue to subside eyewatering amounts indefinately. The Freedom Pass is a good scheme but it should not be used to transport people for free (except disabled holders) during peak periods. It always was after 0930 and not between 1600 and 1900.
I don't think I'll get one when I am 60 as it will be moved to age 67+.

Again something I would consider to be common sense that all modes are under one management so that one administration has access to all the tools which can be used in their most beneficial way - the concept of integrated transport. As you say, the pandemic has led to a greater emphasis on using private transport, which will play a greater role in future with the advent of increased cycling and electric scooters. The traffic calming to enable roads to play its part in neighbourhood level mobility and healthy living is actually very popular with those who live in them.

Despite a loud opposing minority, low-traffic neighbourhoods are increasingly popular

They are not purely, or even mainly, about cycling, but the row about low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs), – where some residential streets are closed to through motor traffic – epitomises broader attitudes in the UK towards safer, more human-friendly streets.

And amid the daily froth of sometimes entirely false stories about LTNs closing roads, or slowing emergency service response times, one thing is often forgotten: these schemes tend to be very popular.

This is shown by new YouGov polling, commissioned by Greenpeace and shared with the Guardian, which found that where people had opinions on LTNs, positive views were more than three times more prevalent than negative ones.

...Article continues

 

[gaillark]

... your above comments

Majority of it is utter tripe. Greenpeace (and the Guardian) live on another planet.

Council's often introduce traffic calming or low traffic neighbourhoods on experimental traffic orders thereby avoiding any public consultation. Then after 18 months they make it permanent. Democratic governance?


Most people oppose traffic calming in their neighbourhoods. The current system of public consultation needs complete overhaul - sticking a small notice on a lamppost with vague details is not proper consultation. Greenpeace would like to see our network the former communist state of Albania whereby horses and carts were the principal traffic and the few vehicles on the roads were for party officials. TfL and Greenpeace and many Labour Council's are hell bent on creating anti car policies and asking residents to pay for them.

TfL needs to make economies now - start with reducing its empire building and concentrate on the core. The organisation is overstaffed.

 

[Taunton]

TfL needs to make economies now - start with reducing its empire building and concentrate on the core. The organisation is overstaffed.

One thing for example they could deal with, which I see daily, is the Cablecar. Unbelieveably that is still operating and fully staffed full hours, all day every day. Apparently it's carrying nobody. It could have been shut down and be mothballed since March without any issue. Fully conscious of the political issues surrounding its building, but that's no excuse for it continuing to waste TfL money in 2020.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing for example they could deal with, which I see daily, is the Cablecar. Unbelieveably that is still operating and fully staffed full hours, all day every day. Apparently it's carrying nobody. It could have been shut down and be mothballed since March without any issue. Fully conscious of the political issues surrounding its building, but that's no excuse for it continuing to waste TfL money in 2020.

They should flog that off to a tourist operator (perhaps one of the bus tour operators would take it on?) Due to its location it serves no useful public transport purpose whatsoever.

 

[Taunton]

They should flog that off to a tourist operator (perhaps one of the bus tour operators would take it on?) Due to its location it serves no useful public transport purpose whatsoever.

Yes, but whatever we thought of its construction in the past, or how it should go forward long term, it's today, and this year, that TfL are merrily letting it continue, and costing money. If they can't sort that out, what chance the other issues they have.

The trouble is, as Rishi Sunak announces another £150bn of assistance from the Bank of England, TfL just feel "that's great, we're head of the line for that, continue as we always did".

 

[squizzler]

Majority of it is utter tripe. Greenpeace (and the Guardian) live on another planet.

This other planet likes to refer to itself as "The Real World". I have some sympathy with yourself as I live in Jersey, another planet still!

Most people oppose traffic calming in their neighbourhoods.

The survey you contradict was done by Yougov, who are considered one of the UK's most experienced opinion poll outfits. Who should we believe here

There are too many buses clogging up roads running with a handful of passengers. Lots of duplicated routes. Give millions of pounds to London Council's for unnecessary traffic calming schemes that creates more congestion.

I agree that busses are indeed motor vehicles occupying road space and adding to congestion and pollution, and a holistic view to reducing congestion should consider busses as just another category of motor vehicle with its own set of costs and benefits. It behoves the operator to ensure their economic and social benefit outweigh the harm they do to communities they pass through.

Nonetheless, satisfying the aspirations of people who wish to ride inside motor vehicles (instead of cycling, walking, etc) by putting them in one big vehicle (a bus) than separate small ones (motorcars) is considered by most transport planners to cause fewer harms.

 

[Taunton]

Nonetheless, satisfying the aspirations of people who wish to ride inside motor vehicles (instead of cycling, walking, etc) by putting them in one big vehicle (a bus) than separate small ones (motorcars) is considered by most transport planners to cause fewer harms.

Unfortunately, getting back to the "Real World" expression, out here in the real world the general opinion is the opposite. Which is why cars have been so successful worldwide and bus usage in much of the UK has dwindled to little more than a social service for selected, and often disadvantaged, subgroups. If the bus was in any way useful to me I would use it. But it's not. So I don't.

 

[Busaholic]

I've been trying to find an up to date version of this london bus map, but one doesn't appear to exist.
If your network is so sprawling that such a map can't be made feasibly, then perhaps your network is too sprawling.

Once Sir Peter Hendy and Leon Daniels had left TfL the decision was made by the new top dogs that such 'old fashioned' things as bus maps were unnecessary(!!) and the relatively small amount of money spent on providing these could be diverted (probably towards salaries of more superfluous non-jobs). Luckily, a gentleman named Mike Harris has been producing his own version as a labour-of-love for many years and, after a hiatus, is still doing so: you can find details online, someone more able than me can probably supply a link.

 

[Taunton]

Once Sir Peter Hendy and Leon Daniels had left TfL the decision was made by the new top dogs that such 'old fashioned' things as bus maps were unnecessary

They also thought that being truthful about Crossrail progress was unnecessary as well ...

 

[Busaholic]

They also thought that being truthful about Crossrail progress was unnecessary as well ...

Leon Daniels was employed on the bus side: I've not seen, read or heard any evidence that during Hendy's time as Commissioner he was appraised by anyone of the true situation, so cunningly had it been concealed, and it's not as though he was directly involved with the project i.e.many layers of cover-up would truly have made sure that no whisper would have come his way, besides which he had nothing to gain financially or in any other way by covering up.

 

[Taunton]

My reference was to the "new top dogs", not to Sir P (who I cannot believe could ever have been so fooled).

 

[philthetube]

Majority of it is utter tripe. Greenpeace (and the Guardian) live on another planet.

Council's often introduce traffic calming or low traffic neighbourhoods on experimental traffic orders thereby avoiding any public consultation. Then after 18 months they make it permanent. Democratic governance?


Most people oppose traffic calming in their neighbourhoods. The current system of public consultation needs complete overhaul - sticking a small notice on a lamppost with vague details is not proper consultation. Greenpeace would like to see our network the former communist state of Albania whereby horses and carts were the principal traffic and the few vehicles on the roads were for party officials. TfL and Greenpeace and many Labour Council's are hell bent on creating anti car policies and asking residents to pay for them.

TfL needs to make economies now - start with reducing its empire building and concentrate on the core. The organisation is overstaffed.

Most people like calming measures in their neighbourhoods, the don't like them in other neighbourhoods where they use the rat runs.

Local councillors would not introduce them if they were unpopular the the majority of residents as it would be a sure way to not be elected next time.