London's Termini Questions

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R848

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With Alan A. Jackson’s London’s Termini in mind, it is known what other locations were considered for becoming a London Rail Termini (sans expansions of existing stations) apart from the Southwark Railway Terminus proposal as well as schemes to White City and Smithfield (the latter two being one of few possible options for a second High Speed rail terminus in a July 1988 British Rail report. - see page 87)?


Was also wondering if someone could elaborate on the specifics of the following tidbits of information on the various London termini in general, namely:

-1) Unless am reading the following wrongly is it known how Isambard Brunel envisioned terminating the Great Western Railway from Paddington to a site south east of where Victoria was later built, on the river bank at the south-west corner of Vauxhall Bridge at Grosvenor Road?

-2) Is it known what specific routes the South Eastern Railway had in mind for their rejected extension of the line from Bricklayers Arms to a new terminus at either Hungerford Bridge or Waterloo Road?


The last lot of questions are geared more towards the potential for a few of London’s termini to become through stations, historical schemes that come to mind for example would be the North Western and Charing Cross Railway link from Euston or St Pancras to Charing Cross.

-1) In a scenario where the London and Blackwall Railway successfully managed to obtain powers for an extension to Lime Street (as mentioned in the London's Termini book), followed by the railway route up to Limehouse being buried underground (as was planned in real life). Would it have been possible for the former to link up with the City Widened Lines at Moorgate via Cornhill (on the basis such a route would avoid Finsbury Circus as well as the Bank of England) or the Northern City Line (also) at Moorgate?

-2) Hypothetically (based on the Rail Map online and historical NLS Map of the area), with a route running between Smithfield and St Bartholomew's Hospital before traveling quickly outside of the City of London area onwards north of Finsbury Circus. Would it have been possible to link Holborn Viaduct with either or both Broad Street and Bishopsgate?

-3) Historically speaking (assuming such schemes were not already considered), how feasible would it have been to establish a route between say north of Farringdon and Bishopsgate for either the Mainline or Metropolitan Railway?
 
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Sad Sprinter

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With Alan A. Jackson’s London’s Termini in mind, it is known what other locations were considered for becoming a London Rail Termini (sans expansions of existing stations) apart from the Southwark Railway Terminus proposal as well as schemes to White City and Smithfield (the latter two being one of few possible options for a second High Speed rail terminus in a July 1988 British Rail report. - see page 87)?


Was also wondering if someone could elaborate on the specifics of the following tidbits of information on the various London termini in general, namely:

-1) Unless am reading the following wrongly is it known how Isambard Brunel envisioned terminating the Great Western Railway from Paddington to a site south east of where Victoria was later built, on the river bank at the south-west corner of Vauxhall Bridge at Grosvenor Road?

-2) Is it known what specific routes the South Eastern Railway had in mind for their rejected extension of the line from Bricklayers Arms to a new terminus at either Hungerford Bridge or Waterloo Road?


The last lot of questions are geared more towards the potential for a few of London’s termini to become through stations, historical schemes that come to mind for example would be the North Western and Charing Cross Railway link from Euston or St Pancras to Charing Cross.

-1) In a scenario where the London and Blackwall Railway successfully managed to obtain powers for an extension to Lime Street (as mentioned in the London's Termini book), followed by the railway route up to Limehouse being buried underground (as was planned in real life). Would it have been possible for the former to link up with the City Widened Lines at Moorgate via Cornhill (on the basis such a route would avoid Finsbury Circus as well as the Bank of England) or the Northern City Line (also) at Moorgate?

-2) Hypothetically (based on the Rail Map online and historical NLS Map of the area), with a route running between Smithfield and St Bartholomew's Hospital before traveling quickly outside of the City of London area onwards north of Finsbury Circus. Would it have been possible to link Holborn Viaduct with either or both Broad Street and Bishopsgate?

-3) Historically speaking (assuming such schemes were not already considered), how feasible would it have been to establish a route between say north of Farringdon and Bishopsgate for either the Mainline or Metropolitan Railway?

For point 1, I have definetely seen a map not too long ago showing a branch line off the West London Line to a terminus at Knightsbridge. Although if I recall correctly this was after Paddington was built.

Not to sure about a Vauxhall terminus though, pretty sure the plans for a Euston terminus were fairly set in stone till the last minuite because the original Euston station was built in mind for an adjoining GWR station.
 

R848

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For point 1, I have definetely seen a map not too long ago showing a branch line off the West London Line to a terminus at Knightsbridge. Although if I recall correctly this was after Paddington was built.

Not to sure about a Vauxhall terminus though, pretty sure the plans for a Euston terminus were fairly set in stone till the last minuite because the original Euston station was built in mind for an adjoining GWR station.

Do you recall whereabouts in Knightsbridge this West London Line branch terminus plan was to be located roughly?

The site on the river bank at the south-west corner of Vauxhall Bridge at Grosvenor Road is mentioned alongside the planned terminus at Euston for the GWR in the admittingly dated book.

On the Liverpool Street section of the book it mentions proposals ranged for a terminus at Finsbury Park up to as far south as Wormwood Street prior to the existing site being chosen. Otherwise would have thought something more ambitious was planned for what ended up becoming the termini for both Marylebone and Victoria instead of the post-war period.
 

Sad Sprinter

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Do you recall whereabouts in Knightsbridge this West London Line branch terminus plan was to be located roughly?

The site on the river bank at the south-west corner of Vauxhall Bridge at Grosvenor Road is mentioned alongside the planned terminus at Euston for the GWR in the admittingly dated book.

On the Liverpool Street section of the book it mentions proposals ranged for a terminus at Finsbury Park up to as far south as Wormwood Street prior to the existing site being chosen. Otherwise would have thought something more ambitious was planned for what ended up becoming the termini for both Marylebone and Victoria instead of the post-war period.

Pretty sure it was right near the underground station is today-I have no idea how I found the map, it was on Amazon.

Have you got any references for the Westminster Railway (or something of that name) As I recall it was a plan to build a branch off the SWML across the river to a terminus near the Houses of Parliament.
 

etr221

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For point 1, I have definetely seen a map not too long ago showing a branch line off the West London Line to a terminus at Knightsbridge. Although if I recall correctly this was after Paddington was built.

Not to sure about a Vauxhall terminus though, pretty sure the plans for a Euston terminus were fairly set in stone till the last minuite because the original Euston station was built in mind for an adjoining GWR station.
My understanding has long beeen that the proximity of the L&BR (LNWR) and GWR lines at Willesden/Old Oak Common was to permit access from both to Euston, as a common terminus.

The Railway Magazine of October 1956 records Metropolitan District proposals in c1880 and c1895 for a 'main line' terminal at South Kensington (fronting the Fulham Road), firstly as a 'West End' terminal for the LSWR, and the second as a London terminal for the then proposed London & South Wales Railway - but none of these proposals got anywhere
 

R848

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Pretty sure it was right near the underground station is today-I have no idea how I found the map, it was on Amazon.

Have you got any references for the Westminster Railway (or something of that name) As I recall it was a plan to build a branch off the SWML across the river to a terminus near the Houses of Parliament.

Was the route to run along or through Knightsbridge station? Take it the alignment prevents any link to Victoria to transform both into through stations.

Cannot say have heard of the Westminster Railway plan to build a branch off the SWML across the river to a terminus near the Houses of Parliament.
 

Sad Sprinter

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My understanding has long beeen that the proximity of the L&BR (LNWR) and GWR lines at Willesden/Old Oak Common was to permit access from both to Euston, as a common terminus.

The Railway Magazine of October 1956 records Metropolitan District proposals in c1880 and c1895 for a 'main line' terminal at South Kensington (fronting the Fulham Road), firstly as a 'West End' terminal for the LSWR, and the second as a London terminal for the then proposed London & South Wales Railway - but none of these proposals got anywhere

London & South Wales Railway? Never heard of that! Running along the A40 corrdor I suppose?

Was the route to run along or through Knightsbridge station? Take it the alignment prevents any link to Victoria to transform both into through stations.

Cannot say have heard of the Westminster Railway plan to build a branch off the SWML across the river to a terminus near the Houses of Parliament.

Found it! Sadly the image is a bit small-but you can make out the extension I was talking about: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Birmingham-Bristol-Junction-Railway-London/dp/B07NNK8QJW
 

R848

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Found it! Sadly the image is a bit small-but you can make out the extension I was talking about: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Birmingham-Bristol-Junction-Railway-London/dp/B07NNK8QJW

Thanks. The proposed extensions options for the Knightsbridge terminius would have been certainly limited had it been built, cannot see the Royals and others approving a link to Charing Cross. Maybe they also played a discrete role in underminding Brunel's GWR proposed route from Paddington to the river bank south-west of Vauxhall Bridge?
 
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