Long station announcements - possible solution (not perfect!)

[pdeaves]

Further to this (now closed) thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/station-announcements-too-long.218507/

The Swedes have come up with a solution, their method to be not to have announcements at all unless there is some change.

Article text:

Swedish station announcements to be silenced
12 November 2021

SWEDEN: Station public address announcements will in future only be made if trains are delayed or there is a platform alteration, Trafikverket has decided. The infrastructure manager said most passengers do not get information from announcements unless there is disruption, but the change has been criticised by the Swedish Association of the Visually Impaired.

Trafikverket said 481 stations have public address systems, but at all but 86 announcements were only made in the event of a delay or change. The others will be brought into line with this policy from November 15.

‘We want it to be clearer for passengers that a loudspeaker announcement means some form of change’, said Trafikverket. It said people with visual impairments would be able to use help points where service information is read out, and a mobile app would be available next year.

However the association said audio announcements should be retained until suitable alternatives were available.

‘For the visually impaired, the loudspeaker call replaces signs that sighted travellers look at’, explained Chair Niklas Mattsson. ‘Imagine how it would be received if there were no signs at all at the stations. An app may work for those who use a smart phone. But many of our members are unable to do so for various reasons. Better systems are needed.’

Trafikverket is also considering introducing English-language announcements.

 

[centraltrains]

I've never been able to find a written press release or anything about it, but if you go to Birmingham New Street, they've been doing exactly this for just over a year I think?

Certainly makes the concourse feel more pleasant.


Also as an update to the linked thread, WMR stations also now announce to take care around the platform if no tactile edge is installed, after every train announcement.

 

[mrd269697]

If you were waiting at Shrewsbury, and hear ‘the next train to arrive on platform 7 will be the 1824 Transport for Wales service to Carmarthen. Calling at…

 

[Mordac]

If you were waiting at Shrewsbury, and hear ‘the next train to arrive on platform 7 will be the 1824 Transport for Wales service to Carmarthen. Calling at…

The announcement for the train to Pwllheli can't be much better (ofc these aren't running atm).

 

[mrd269697]

Good point - as it says every single station from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth then every single one from Shrewsbury to Pwllheli (even though they both share the line to Dovey)

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

Good point - as it says every single station from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth then every single one from Shrewsbury to Pwllheli (even though they both share the line to Dovey)

Presumably then followed by all of those that are request stops, and then the entire thing again in Welsh?

 

[Ibex]

I've never been able to find a written press release or anything about it, but if you go to Birmingham New Street, they've been doing exactly this for just over a year I think?

Certainly makes the concourse feel more pleasant.


Also as an update to the linked thread, WMR stations also now announce to take care around the platform if no tactile edge is installed, after every train announcement.

The tactile paving announcements an industry response to the fatal incident at Eden Park. I've not heard them anywhere else yet but they've also been recorded by Gregg Scott who's done all the DfT commissioned "travel with confidence" messages so presumably it's just a matter of time.

WMT are doing a survey about announcements at the moment funnily enough:

LNR.uk/announcements

 

[py_megapixel]

I don't really like this idea. It's not really suitable for no audible information to normally be available.

I would say that rather than nuking everything, the announcements simply need to be more concise - for example, for the Pwlheli service from Birmingham, just say "Calling at Smethwick Galton Bridge, Sandwell & Dudley, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Shrewsbury, then all stations to Pwlheli" or whatever.

More effective use of zoning could also be made - for example, there is no need for the train formation to be announced except to passengers actually standing on the applicable platform, but the calling points are probably also useful in central areas such as concourses and waiting rooms.

 

[Gareth]

They should at least nix "due to today's wet weather..." and other superfluous announcements.

 

[Jim the Jim]

I don't really like this idea. It's not really suitable for no audible information to normally be available.

I would say that rather than nuking everything, the announcements simply need to be more concise - for example, for the Pwlheli service from Birmingham, just say "Calling at Smethwick Galton Bridge, Sandwell & Dudley, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Shrewsbury, then all stations to Pwlheli" or whatever.

More effective use of zoning could also be made - for example, there is no need for the train formation to be announced except to passengers actually standing on the applicable platform, but the calling points are probably also useful in central areas such as concourses and waiting rooms.

Yes. There are certain stations (like Snow Hill or New Street) which (a) have a lot of trains, and (b) have some trains which stop at an awful lot of places. There it makes sense to cut down on the number of announced stops for at least some of the announcements. Cutting all basic train announcements altogether is overkill.

There's other information which it would be better to cut out. "A trolley service of drinks and light refreshments is available on this train" is not really worth saying.

 

[pdeaves]

"A trolley service of drinks and light refreshments is available on this train" is not really worth saying.

Inclined to agree. By the time it's announced you have either bought whatever you want or already committed to taking the chance on board. Nobody on the platform will hear the announcement (or rather, 'not hear' the trolley bit) and decide to run off to StationSnax with associated risk of missing the train.

It's even worse for those operators who insert the word 'delicious' when announcing refreshments. Keep the announcement if you really must, but keep subjective opinions out of it!

 

[Bikeman78]

They should at least nix "due to today's wet weather..." and other superfluous announcements.

I did laugh the other week when I heard that announcement on deep level tube stations. Even on the wettest days it's bone dry down there.

 

[mmh]

I did laugh the other week when I heard that announcement on deep level tube stations. Even on the wettest days it's bone dry down there.

Every deep level tube station has an entrance...

Presumably then followed by all of those that are request stops, and then the entire thing again in Welsh?

Why would it do that? Shrewsbury is in England. Announcements at Chester are only in English, so I'd be surprised to hear Welsh there. "Then again in Welsh" is also a common misconception - in Wales you will hear Welsh first.

 

[Bikeman78]

Every deep level tube station has an entrance...



Why would it do that? Shrewsbury is in England. Announcements at Chester are only in English, so I'd be surprised to hear Welsh there. "Then again in Welsh" is also a common misconception - in Wales you will hear Welsh first.

Indeed they do. Maybe the warning should go off as people go out "warning it's wet out there."

Regarding Shrewsbury, it only announces in English.

 

[mrd269697]

Presumably then followed by all of those that are request stops, and then the entire thing again in Welsh?

Very true!

 

[NSE]

There’s a tube station (I think Kings Cross, I’m on auto pilot so I don’t always clock it) that doesn’t finish the announcement before it’s time to depart. I forget exactly the details but I know I’ve noticed it on more the one occasion.

 

[Horizon22]

There’s a tube station (I think Kings Cross, I’m on auto pilot so I don’t always clock it) that doesn’t finish the announcement before it’s time to depart. I forget exactly the details but I know I’ve noticed it on more the one occasion.

Seeing as it would be "Kings Cross St. Pancras" and all the interchanges (does it still say "national & international rail services" or is that Thameslink?) that wouldn't surprise me. Different stock has different types of announcements on the Underground though.

 

[Tio Terry]

More effective use of zoning could also be made - for example, there is no need for the train formation to be announced except to passengers actually standing on the applicable platform, but the calling points are probably also useful in central areas such as concourses and waiting rooms.

Have you considered that people who are standing on the wrong platform need to be told so?

 

[43096]

I don't really like this idea. It's not really suitable for no audible information to normally be available.

I would say that rather than nuking everything, the announcements simply need to be more concise - for example, for the Pwlheli service from Birmingham, just say "Calling at Smethwick Galton Bridge, Sandwell & Dudley, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Shrewsbury, then all stations to Pwlheli" or whatever.

More effective use of zoning could also be made - for example, there is no need for the train formation to be announced except to passengers actually standing on the applicable platform, but the calling points are probably also useful in central areas such as concourses and waiting rooms.

Announcements need nuking: there’s way way way too much verbal diarrhoea on the railway. Go air side in the terminals at Gatwick to find how it should be done: no announcements unless there is something urgent/changed, and it’s fabulous.

 

[Pseudonym]

I like the idea of limiting announcements - except last minute changes or anything urgent.
All airports seem to be that way now - what is different between checking a monitor for a platform vs a departure gate?

 

[Tio Terry]

Announcements need nuking: there’s way way way too much verbal diarrhoea on the railway. Go air side in the terminals at Gatwick to find how it should be done: no announcements unless there is something urgent/changed, and it’s fabulous.

But airside at Gatwick those passengers classed as PRM have a dedicated desk, manned all the time the airport is open, where they are attended to and taken to their gate. Some large station have something similar but the vast majority of stations have no such facilities making things far worse if you are PRM. Those announcements are not just for the able bodied and whilst you may find them irritating they are a necessity for many others.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I think a refreshments trolley on board should be mentioned, although I always take my own food and drink.

Care should be taken to have the announcements clear and simple, so people whose English is not so good can understand them. Often I think they are either too loud or too quiet.

Better too much information than too little.

 

[Parallel]

Remember that verbal announcements help to give visually impaired people confidence to use the railway. The Pwllheli announcement is necessary in my opinion as some of the stations are request stops so it is important to know if you need to request where you are alighting.

I don’t agree with the current set up at New Street. The problem was before that the volume on the platforms was set to maximum and the concourse played virtually everything. The voice they use is also on the shouty side. Fortunately there are always a lot of staff around at New Street to help but not all stations have the same.

There are a lot of train services on the network that have different calling patterns and skip or stop at different stations. CIS screens and announcements are a helpful way to ensure the train is yours.

 

[43096]

But airside at Gatwick those passengers classed as PRM have a dedicated desk, manned all the time the airport is open, where they are attended to and taken to their gate. Some large station have something similar but the vast majority of stations have no such facilities making things far worse if you are PRM. Those announcements are not just for the able bodied and whilst you may find them irritating they are a necessity for many others.

You know the point I'm making, though. Fortunately I still have my eyesight, but I imagine the cacophony of announcements if you are blind would be an absolute nightmare as you're reliant on the announcements and have to listen to every one to ascertain the important information. As an example, if you're blind, how are you going to "see it", let alone "say it"? It's pointless drivel.

As for on train, we have automated announcements so guards "should be seen and not heard" i.e. they need to get out of their rear/middle cab hidey-hole and should only be picking up the PA to announce something out of course (delays, changed stopping pattern etc.).

 

[Bikeman78]

You know the point I'm making, though. Fortunately I still have my eyesight, but I imagine the cacophony of announcements if you are blind would be an absolute nightmare as you're reliant on the announcements and have to listen to every one to ascertain the important information. As an example, if you're blind, how are you going to "see it", let alone "say it"? It's pointless drivel.

As for on train, we have automated announcements so guards "should be seen and not heard" i.e. they need to get out of their rear/middle cab hidey-hole and should only be picking up the PA to announce something out of course (delays, changed stopping pattern etc.).

Yes guards that effectively repeat the auto PA are a pain in the backside. By all means switch off the auto and do manual announcements but we don't need both. The ultimate irony is when they bang on about the quiet coach.

As regards blind people, I doubt I'd go on trains much I if were blind. However, my granny knew a blind couple that travelled from Hainault to Redhill to visit her. This was in the 1980s, before any form of PA existed on the trains involved.

 

[6Gman]

As regards blind people, I doubt I'd go on trains much I if were blind. However, my granny knew a blind couple that travelled from Hainault to Redhill to visit her. This was in the 1980s, before any form of PA existed on the trains involved.

Plenty of visually impaired people travel by train I can assure you. And being able to hear information is vital to them.

 

[Tio Terry]

As regards blind people, I doubt I'd go on trains much I if were blind. However, my granny knew a blind couple that travelled from Hainault to Redhill to visit her. This was in the 1980s, before any form of PA existed on the trains involved.

You seem to be totally missing the point of The Equalities Act. The whole idea of the act is that people with disabilities should not be excluded from joining in with others who are not afflicted. The railways - and others - are required to plan for those PRM's to be able to travel as easily as those without problems.

 

[Bikeman78]

You seem to be totally missing the point of The Equalities Act. The whole idea of the act is that people with disabilities should not be excluded from joining in with others who are not afflicted. The railways - and others - are required to plan for those PRM's to be able to travel as easily as those without problems.

We're a long way from what you describe. As an example, I saw far more disabled people on Pacers around Cardiff than I've ever seen on fully compliant trains from London to Cambridge. If we're serious about travel for all you can't have DOO and unstaffed stations without level boarding.

 

[Tio Terry]

We're a long way from what you describe. As an example, I saw far more disabled people on Pacers around Cardiff than I've ever seen on fully compliant trains from London to Cambridge. If we're serious about travel for all you can't have DOO and unstaffed stations without level boarding.

The responsibility for compliance with the Equalities Act rests with the Train Operator. How they deal with Driver only trains and unmanned stations is a matter for them to resolve. The Law is quite clear, it is for them to decide how they will comply with it. If you, or anyone else, feel they are not complying, complain to the ORR.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Yes guards that effectively repeat the auto PA are a pain in the backside. By all means switch off the auto and do manual announcements but we don't need both. The ultimate irony is when they bang on about the quiet coach.

As regards blind people, I doubt I'd go on trains much I if were blind. However, my granny knew a blind couple that travelled from Hainault to Redhill to visit her. This was in the 1980s, before any form of PA existed on the trains involved.

It's funny you say that, given conductors are mystery shopped and announcements are the number 1 thing that is looked out for.

Every station should be announced, and at major interchange stations a full announcement regarding facilities and expectations are well, expected. Add on potential request stops/short platforms etc.

Announcements may not seem relevant to you personally, but they may be useful to someone else

Plenty of visually impaired people travel by train I can assure you. And being able to hear information is vital to them.

Absolutely! Not a day goes by that I don't help visually impaired passengers onto or off a service. I'd say that there are considerably more disabled people travelling now than 10 years ago, and it's mostly down to confidence and accessibility improvements