Longer Distance Service You Didn't Expect Without Changing

[Andy873]

Sometime back in the mid to late 1980's I wanted to get to Peterborough from Lancashire on a Saturday. I was surprised that there was such a service Saturdays only I think. I caught the train sometime around 6am to 7am from Bolton station, the other thing is it was a direct service (no need to change) which again I was surprised about,

I have no idea where the train (arriving at Bolton) came from but there were already passengers on it, and I didn't know what its final destination was either... sadly I didn't pay much attention to the route?

Do you remember services like the above that you didn't expect without changing trains somewhere? by that I mean longer distance non express journeys to places you didn't expect?

 

[tbtc]

The current hourly Norwich to Liverpool service used to have a broadly hourly service in the core (albeit some via Loughborough rather than Grantham) but a variety of start/end points

These included Barrow and Blackpool, which may explain a Bolton to Peterborough service, possibly with 31s (31/4s?) or 158s, the final destination may have been Norwich but equally Ipswich/ Harwich/ Cambridge (Stansted opened in the 1990s IIRC)

I think that the mid 1980s also saw Bolton as a stop on the Glasgow/ Edinburgh - WCML - Manchester - Sheffield - Nottingham - Peterborough - Harwich “boat train” (Which previously went via the S&C but BR was running that route down in the 1980s ahead of planned closure, hence the diversion via Manchester Victoria and presumably also Bolton?)

 

[Iskra]

Nottingham to Carlisle under the current Northern, once a week on a Sunday is probably a pleasantly surprising one for many.

As was the old Arriva Trains Northern Leeds-Glasgow Central service via Carlisle in the brief time it ran.

 

[30907]

The current hourly Norwich to Liverpool service used to have a broadly hourly service in the core (albeit some via Loughborough rather than Grantham) but a variety of start/end points.

These included Barrow and Blackpool, which may explain a Bolton to Peterborough service, possibly with 31s (31/4s?) or 158s, the final destination may have been Norwich but equally Ipswich/ Harwich/ Cambridge (Stansted opened in the 1990s IIRC)

The whole East Anglia-NW route was a RR product of the mid 80s using surplus rolling stock and locos very ingeniously and economically to link up previous relatively short workings.

I think that the mid 1980s also saw Bolton as a stop on the Glasgow/ Edinburgh - WCML - Manchester - Sheffield - Nottingham - Peterborough - Harwich “boat train” (Which previously went via the S&C but BR was running that route down in the 1980s ahead of planned closure, hence the diversion via Manchester Victoria and presumably also Bolton?)

Pedantically, the Continental never ran via the S and C but always to Manchester (or originally Liverpool).
IIRC Intercity started before the RR network: they started a Manchester-Scotland service back from Nottingham in marginal time, then created a second service by combining another with the Harwich; this also got InterCity off the Settle and Carlisle (maybe coincidentally, but saving them a packet, as otherwise they would have been deemed the principal user under sectorisation).
This of course strengthened the case for S and C closure.

 

[tbtc]

Pedantically, the Continental never ran via the S and C but always to Manchester (or originally Liverpool).
IIRC Intercity started before the RR network: they started a Manchester-Scotland service back from Nottingham in marginal time, then created a second service by combining another with the Harwich; this also got InterCity off the Settle and Carlisle (maybe coincidentally, but saving them a packet, as otherwise they would have been deemed the principal user under sectorisation).
This of course strengthened the case for S and C closure.

That’s very interesting, thanks for explaining things, I’m always happy to be corrected on these matters

BR were certainly good at knowing “how” to close lines, it was a very different railway back then

 

[Magdalia]

I caught the train sometime around 6am to 7am from Bolton station, the other thing is it was a direct service (no need to change) which again I was surprised about

If loco hauled then probably the 0720 from Blackpool which ran to Cambridge in 1985 then to Harwich in 1986 and 1987. It was at Bolton at a more sociable 0820 and ran every day except Sunday.

When the Sprinters took over in 1988 it became 0606 Blackpool to Ipswich, which was at Bolton at 0703.

I think that the mid 1980s also saw Bolton as a stop on the Glasgow/ Edinburgh - WCML - Manchester - Sheffield - Nottingham - Peterborough - Harwich “boat train” (Which previously went via the S&C but BR was running that route down in the 1980s ahead of planned closure, hence the diversion via Manchester Victoria and presumably also Bolton?)

You are muddling up two different trains. The Nottingham-Glasgow (lineal descendant of the Thames Clyde Express from St Pancras) was diverted off the S+C to go via Manchester Victoria in 1982.

But the muddle is understandable because only a year later the Harwich-Manchester boat train and the Nottingham-Glasgow were combined into a through train from Harwich to Glasgow.

 

[Rescars]

The best unexpected through working I have encountered was in 2009 when, needing to get from London to Telford, I discovered I could swap the Euston crowds and a change in Birmingham, for an almost surreal quality of service by travelling from Marylebone with Wrexham and Shropshire - following a scenic route via Kenilworth and the Grand Junction as a definite bonus. Happy days!

 

[jfollows]

The whole East Anglia-NW route was a RR product of the mid 80s using surplus rolling stock and locos very ingeniously and economically to link up previous relatively short workings.

Pedantically, the Continental never ran via the S and C but always to Manchester (or originally Liverpool).
IIRC Intercity started before the RR network: they started a Manchester-Scotland service back from Nottingham in marginal time, then created a second service by combining another with the Harwich; this also got InterCity off the Settle and Carlisle (maybe coincidentally, but saving them a packet, as otherwise they would have been deemed the principal user under sectorisation).
This of course strengthened the case for S and C closure.

I used to see the Harwich Boat Train in the late 1970s; by then it terminated at Manchester Piccadilly and ran via the Hope Valley. At Piccadilly it stopped well short in platform 5 so its engine could run round the stock through platform 6 and work the service back to Harwich at 15:15. It's just telling how few platforms were in use at the time at Piccadilly given that 11 & 12 weren't used either, and 10 rarely, but it was still fine blocking 5 & 6 with the former being used for the stock for over an hour.

 

[30907]

If loco hauled then probably the 0720 from Blackpool which ran to Cambridge in 1985 then to Harwich in 1986 and 1987. It was at Bolton at a more sociable 0820 and ran every day except Sunday.

An interesting train - at one end a Blackpool commuter service, while at the other it was IIRC the successor to a Peterborough-Harwich which carried more parcels than passengers (though I think it may have connected with the Esjberg boat?). I'd forgotten that there was more than one Preston to Parkeston (I used the other one once).

 

[Magdalia]

An interesting train - at one end a Blackpool commuter service, while at the other it was IIRC the successor to a Peterborough-Harwich

The lunchtime Peterborough-Harwich was relatively new, only dating back to 1982, but going the other way the 1320 Harwich-Blackpool was a descendant of the the old Harwich to Rugby.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not as 'long distance' as some of the others, but the Huddersfield to Retford or Lincoln strikes me as a bit odd, though a good way of getting a bit more out of the available units. Think at some point some of the Penistone line services extended to sunny Cleethorpes in the past too.

Then there was the odd Wales&West services to Manchester from far flung places like Penzance and London Waterloo, and I remember being bemused by seeing Maesteg on the departure boards at London Waterloo too.

 

[Dai Corner]

Not as exotic as some previously mentioned, but around 1980 I was a student at Birmingham and there was a through train from New Street to all/most stations between Bristol Temple Meads and Taunton. I don't remember where it started; possibly as far north as Scotland.

Saved me changing at Temple Meads for Nailsea & Blackwell.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I was on the way back from Anglesey some time in the mid-90s - before Central Trains had started joining up random services - and planned to change at Crewe. I was very pleasantly impressed to find the screens were showing the imminent departure of a direct train to my final destination, Oakham (and then on to Cambridge).

I was even more impressed that it was a Class 310.

(Inevitably, at New Street we were all shepherded onto a Sprinter of some kind...)

 

[randyrippley]

this page gives the history of the Harwich boat trains

Lost Railway Services of Greater Manchester: The European

The story of Manchester’s former Boat Train service to Harwich Parkeston Quay Since the Edwardian times, Manchester Victoria station’s canopy and tiled map proudly advertised the fact i…

mancunian1001.wordpress.com

 

[jfollows]

this page gives the history of the Harwich boat trains

Lost Railway Services of Greater Manchester: The European

The story of Manchester’s former Boat Train service to Harwich Parkeston Quay Since the Edwardian times, Manchester Victoria station’s canopy and tiled map proudly advertised the fact i…

mancunian1001.wordpress.com

It doesn’t, it seems to start from 1982 and it is inaccurate, for example about the Settle & Carlisle line.

 

[Magdalia]

this page gives the history of the Harwich boat trains

Lost Railway Services of Greater Manchester: The European

The story of Manchester’s former Boat Train service to Harwich Parkeston Quay Since the Edwardian times, Manchester Victoria station’s canopy and tiled map proudly advertised the fact i…

mancunian1001.wordpress.com

A brief history of the North Country Continental.

The Great Eastern Railway opened Parkeston Quay in 1883 and the North Country Continental Boat Train started running in 1885. It had various portions in the early years but for more than the first half of the 20th century the main train ran to/from Liverpool via Ipswich, March, Lincoln Central, Sheffield Victoria and Manchester Central. Virtually from the start it had a restaurant car that detached from the northbound train at Sheffield Victoria to return on the southbound train.

The northern terminus switched to Manchester Piccadilly in September 1963.

The route over the Pennines switched from Woodhead to the Hope Valley in January 1970.

The route from March to Sheffield switched from Lincoln to Nottingham in May 1973.

 

[ian1944]

Regarding Bolton, sometime in the 80s I attended a talk by someone developing a computer system for journey planning, and the audience (in Manchester) were asked for test journeys. A surprising number of the resulting itineraries involved changing in Bolton, courtesy of the boat train.

 

[Rescars]

Does anyone recall the trains which ran from Wales to Waterloo to provide a connection with Eurostar? I came across one once which greatly simplified a return from Cardiff to Clapham Junction. IIRC the route was quite interesting and involved stops at Westbury and Salisbury. To reinforce the Eurostar connection, the guard even managed bi-lingual announcements - well, after a fashion!

 

[Jimini]

Does anyone recall the trains which ran from Wales to Waterloo to provide a connection with Eurostar? I came across one once which greatly simplified a return from Cardiff to Clapham Junction. IIRC the route was quite interesting and involved stops at Westbury and Salisbury. To reinforce the Eurostar connection, the guard even managed bi-lingual announcements - well, after a fashion!

Alphaline Wales & West maybe? I remember catching a very early morning train from Waterloo to Reading back in 2000 or so, that ultimately terminated at Maesteg.

 

[jfollows]

Alphaline Wales & West maybe? I remember catching a very early morning train from Waterloo to Reading back in 2000 or so, that ultimately terminated at Maesteg.

There were HSTs as well.
See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/regional-eurostar-connecting-services-mid-90s.72913/ which in turn includes a link to http://www.kentrail.org.uk/eurostar_intercity_125.htm

 

[Snow1964]

Back in 1980s I used to travel occasionally between my University in Coventry and my home town of New Milton. The first morning cross train northbound and last southbound conveniently stopped and avoided change at Southampton (cross country didn't stop at Brockenhurst back then).

There was also a summer Saturdays train from New Milton (ex Weymouth) to South Wales in late 1970s

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

In the heady early days of privatisation North Western Trains / First North Western attempted a Rochdale to Euston service. They also ran Manchester Airport to Euston using Cl 322s, but because of the moderation of competition rules had to call at Alderley Edge instead of Wilmslow. I travelled from Euston back to Alderley once - I seem to remember it had an extended wait at Tamworth for pathing reasons. Central Trains also ran to Manchester Airport from the Stoke direction, but again were not permitted to call at Wilmslow - they were very lightly loaded as I recall.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

In NSE days there was a Saturday service which came down from Richmond (Surrey) and, I think, as far as Reading, which went via the Latchmere lines and then the Chatham Main Line to Dover (first stop Ashford). Rail mileage (at the time) around Clapham Junction. Don’t think it lasted more than a summer.

 

[greyman42]

The Sussex Scot from Glasgow to Brighton.

 

[Andy873]

Thanks for the fascinating replies, there certainly were some unexpected direct routes around. Also, thanks for the probable start point and destination of that train from the 1980's

Can't remember what engine pulled the train but the carriages were older stock that had seen better days, however the seats were comfy and as always I enjoyed looking out of the window at the beautiful countryside.

One funny tail from the journey (as a side note) was this:

The guard was from Liverpool, he was walking down the carriage checking tickets etc until he came to a very well spoken lady who set about asking him many rapid fire questions... The guard (like a two Ronnies sketch) seemed to be answering the question before last trying to catch up with her questions until he answered what seemed to be her last one... there was a pause... then she asked "will you be on my train going home"? the guard replied "No thank goodness!". There were plenty of chuckles and the guard grinned as he walked away.

 

[Rescars]

Alphaline Wales & West maybe? I remember catching a very early morning train from Waterloo to Reading back in 2000 or so, that ultimately terminated at Maesteg.

Ah, yes. Alphaline it was. Nothing so grand as jfollows' HST. IIRC the train was just a three car unit with a refreshment trolley in the rear vestibule.

 

[Taunton]

Must have been these 1990s times my car was at Stansted airport but I had flown and trained around the country, and was now returning from Liverpool Lime Street. Had just bought a ticket to Euston, to go on from there by Underground and the airport train, went out onto the concourse ... and there was a 3-car Class 170 ready to leave for all principal points, via Nottingham etc, to Stansted Airport. Asked the barrier but was told my Euston ticket was not valid. When I got to Stansted I passed by the station to see its progress. It was still on its way.

 

[Rescars]

The Sussex Scot from Glasgow to Brighton.

And the Connex services from Brighton to Rugby. Put Kensington Olympia back on the map, and so nice to be able to get through London without using the Underground.

 

[Taunton]

Summer Saturdays in the 1950s were the pinnacle for oddball through trains. Some were more understandable, like major industrial areas to resorts, but others less so. A real outlier was a service that ran for some years, from Exmouth to Cleethorpes, between two rather secondary resorts in their own right, but also routed over the Somerset & Dorset. I wonder if they ever sold a ticket for the throughout journey, which inevitably took all day each way.

 

[D1537]

I was at Penzance waiting to board the SO train to Milton Keynes in 1987 when a somewhat bemused local gentleman asked me where Milton Keynes actually was.

It was an oddity of a train, to be fair. I think it only ran that one year. Set of WCML Mk3s as well.

The Paignton-Rose Grove and Blackpool-Blythe Bridge were a couple of other summer dated trains with oddball destinations.