Longest Heritage Railway extension

[Mcr Warrior]

I believe the narrow gauge Southwold Railway is also expanding.

Have I missed something? Thought the line had closed in 1929.

 

[WAO]

And there's Ludborough (Lincs) heading to Louth someday.

WAO

 

[Backroom_boy]

To be honest the ideal length of a heritage railway depends largely on your geographical location, the location of external attractions, and ultimately what you inherited and what authorities were prepared to allow you to operate and or build. The Isle of Wight Steam Railway is often mentioned as the perfect length with the central station

Though an extension to Ryde St John would make it more perfect (but not if it was hobbled by the cost to do so)

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

Though an extension to Ryde St John would make it more perfect (but not if it was hobbled by the cost to do so)

My personal view is that a third rail electric railway running alongside a steam line with wooden bodied carriages is unlikely to meet with approval nowadays.

 

[Backroom_boy]

My personal view is that a third rail electric railway running alongside a steam line with wooden bodied carriages is unlikely to meet with approval nowadays.

They'd have to be totally isolated but yes not thought that the two running lines in parallel might be too close together

 

[paul1609]

Though an extension to Ryde St John would make it more perfect (but not if it was hobbled by the cost to do so)

I'm not sure what financial benefits going to St John's would bring. People make much of the Iowsrs set up without acknowledging that it all happened due to circumstances beyond the railways control. The original preservation base was going to be Newport before the station site was lost and the Wooton landslip severed that stretch of line. The smallbrook extension only ever happened because the smallbrook mainline was singled and the track donated. The current station there was built by NSE.

 

[Magdalia]

I believe the narrow gauge Southwold Railway is also expanding.

Have I missed something? Thought the line had closed in 1929.

There is a thing called the Southwold Railway Trust, see here:

Southwold Railway Trust – England's premier 3-foot gauge railway

www.southwoldrailway.co.uk

Committed to restoring the historic narrow gauge railway link between Halesworth & Southwold; preserving it for future generations to enjoy.

It doesn't have any operating railway, but does own some of the trackbed near Wenhaston and now seems to have a site on the old gas works land near to the site of the Southwold terminus.

Another preserved railway in Suffolk is the Mid Suffolk Light Railway. They do have a short distance of track, and are expanding, but they are "also rans" in the competition for longest extension.

Mid-Suffolk Light Railway - Suffolk's only standard gauge heritage railway

www.mslr.org.uk

Welcome to the ‘Middy’
Suffolk’s only standard gauge heritage railway​

 

[cav1975]

I'm not sure what financial benefits going to St John's would bring. People make much of the Iowsrs set up without acknowledging that it all happened due to circumstances beyond the railways control. The original preservation base was going to be Newport before the station site was lost and the Wooton landslip severed that stretch of line. The smallbrook extension only ever happened because the smallbrook mainline was singled and the track donated. The current station there was built by NSE.

While it is true that some aspects of the IWSR have been caused by circumstances a good part of the current stable position has been due to taking advantage if the right opportunities and by creating opportunities where none existed. Havenstreet to Wootton was chosen as it was unlikely to attract other land developments and didn’t involve any road crossings for passenger trains. NSE were extremely helpful with the extension in many ways but the opening was followed by a financial downturn which took significant effort to recover from. In parallel the railway has made choices about ownership structures, land purchase, etc. which have been very beneficial in the long term.

Extending to Ryde St. John’s Road would, in my personal opinion, have been a step too far and I’m glad it didn’t happen.

As this is an extensions thread I think that the lesson from the Isle of Wight is that even extending a short railway was problematic financially and should encourage caution.

 

[Backroom_boy]

While it is true that some aspects of the IWSR have been caused by circumstances a good part of the current stable position has been due to taking advantage if the right opportunities and by creating opportunities where none existed. Havenstreet to Wootton was chosen as it was unlikely to attract other land developments and didn’t involve any road crossings for passenger trains. NSE were extremely helpful with the extension in many ways but the opening was followed by a financial downturn which took significant effort to recover from. In parallel the railway has made choices about ownership structures, land purchase, etc. which have been very beneficial in the long term.

Extending to Ryde St. John’s Road would, in my personal opinion, have been a step too far and I’m glad it didn’t happen.

As this is an extensions thread I think that the lesson from the Isle of Wight is that even extending a short railway was problematic financially and should encourage caution.

Actually such an extension would probably benefit the IoWR more as it would allow the deletion of smallbrook junction stop, so saving the substantial seconds on the current timetable

 

[507020]

Is there zero chance of the Severn Valley Railway getting to Telford?

 

[bramling]

Is there zero chance of the Severn Valley Railway getting to Telford?

I wouldn’t say there’s ever zero chance, but it’s pretty minimal. Getting out of Bridgnorth is problematic due to housing on the trackbed, then there’s the problem of subsidence in the Jackfield area.

This is one extension that I’d have thought could pay its way due to the tourist potential of both Bridgnorth and Ironbridge. In fact in the were it technically and financially viable it could probably be made to work going all the way to Shrewsbury tapping into a completely different market.

But I don’t expect to see the SVR run north of Bridgnorth in my lifetime. Never say never though.

 

[geoffk]

If ticket prices alone will not sustain the railway other review stream would need to be looked at, catering, shop, sponsorship, modern advertising on the railways in period style, every penny goes in the pot to maintain the railway.

Yes and don't forget income from the "big railway" - TOCs and Network Rail - for those lines which can offer driver or signaller training, testing of new stock, storage of old or new stock. Only the bigger players including GCR and WSR can offer some of these, especially if trains can run at main line speeds. On occasions commercial freight has run, e.g. stone for sea defences in Somerset. Payment may be “in kind”, e.g. track work done for free. Many of the lines mentioned here, including all the ng ones, won't be able to benefit though.

 

[Taunton]

As discussed elsewhere the poor connections between Bluebell and mainline trains don’t help.

I'm sure there will always be one (or more) excuses for the golden project not working out. I fear that visitors arriving by family car are seen as "the wrong sort of visitors" by some.

For the rest of our family, one of the best we had was at the East Anglian museum at Chappel. Length? About half a mile. But they shunted back and forth so it took the best part of 15 minutes each, there were multiple different trains operating all around us, so we got various experiences, there were interesting points in between the rides. It was very busy.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The West Somerset Railway having trains (not necessarily their own) between Taunton and Bishops Lydiard on a regular public timetabled basis is still a long held objective.

This is something that really ought to be do-able. IIRC FGW/GWR have run a limited service in the past, as have one or two mainline charter operators. The WSR was already at the upper end of viable length, so running everything into Taunton (leaving aside capacity constraints on the main line between Norton Fitzwarren and TAU) would probably have a similar effect to the Bluebell's extension.
Something like the old Okehampton service at weekends either to Bishops Lydeard or through to Minehead, perhaps as extensions of GWR Taunton terminators, would at least "test the waters". It'd certainly be a step up from the no.28 bus (over an hour from Taunton to Minehead), or driving along the scenic but wiggly and congested A358.
It would likely need an extra diagram and crew of course, depending on current turnarounds at Taunton. If the turnarounds are generous enough, Lydeard might be feasible without an extra diagram.

The length question does have me wondering if an update to the 25mph speed limit (subject to improved maintenance of course) would be worthwhile? I'm not suggesting everything increases to 60mph of course, just whether a more holistic approach rather than the blanket 25 would be better overall. I realise this is only tangentially related to extentions, so perhaps warrants a speculative thread?

 

[StoneRoad]

I'll put a plug in for the Bala Lake Railway ... the trackbed is "almost" ready as it was provided as part of flood protection works, although they are having to re-do their application for reasons to do with environmental impacts. Rather annoying, but perhaps Bala does need a new waste water treatment plant.

Pretty sure that this one will happen !

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It doesn't have any operating railway, but does own some of the trackbed near Wenhaston and now seems to have a site on the old gas works land near to the site of the Southwold terminus.

Thanks for clarifying.

Didn't seem all that much at Southwold, last time I was there, and not yet been over to Wenhaston, towards the (one-time) Halesworth end of the line.

So, how much trackwork, if any, do the Southwold Railway Trust currently have in place?

And by how much are they planning to extend it, in the immediate future?

 

[D6130]

The smallbrook extension only ever happened because the smallbrook mainline was singled and the track donated.

Brading to Sandown, to be pedantic.

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

This is something that really ought to be do-able. IIRC FGW/GWR have run a limited service in the past, as have one or two mainline charter operators. The WSR was already at the upper end of viable length, so running everything into Taunton (leaving aside capacity constraints on the main line between Norton Fitzwarren and TAU) would probably have a similar effect to the Bluebell's extension.
Something like the old Okehampton service at weekends either to Bishops Lydeard or through to Minehead, perhaps as extensions of GWR Taunton terminators, would at least "test the waters". It'd certainly be a step up from the no.28 bus (over an hour from Taunton to Minehead), or driving along the scenic but wiggly and congested A358.
It would likely need an extra diagram and crew of course, depending on current turnarounds at Taunton. If the turnarounds are generous enough, Lydeard might be feasible without an extra diagram.

The length question does have me wondering if an update to the 25mph speed limit (subject to improved maintenance of course) would be worthwhile? I'm not suggesting everything increases to 60mph of course, just whether a more holistic approach rather than the blanket 25 would be better overall. I realise this is only tangentially related to extentions, so perhaps warrants a speculative thread?

One of the great mistakes of the early years of ''heritage" railways was excessive length. This mistake has not been learned.

 

[D6130]

I think someone once said that the ideal heritage railway was about 7 miles long linking two points of interest as that enabled a reasonable service with one loco in steam to be provided, gave sufficient interest for passengers and had a real purpose which generated patronage.

I think that's why my local heritage line (the Keighley & Worth Valley) is so successful....even though it's slightly less than five miles long.

 

[joebassman]

Have I missed something? Thought the line had closed in 1929.

They built a small museum in southwold and laid some track and restored an old engine shed at Blythburgh.

They did have plans to reopen the whole line and have attempted to gain planning permission to reopen various parts of the railway but the majority of locals and the council are against reopening, so planning was rejected. I think the last attempt was to reopen the part along the old southwold docks and at Blythburgh, which faced a lot of opposition.

Plus part of the line ran along a nature reserve and the RSPB are dead against reopening.

I'm not sure much will be reopened beyond extending a small amount at Blythburgh and building on some track bed the society have purchased at wenhanston, although planning permission for the latter was rejected.

 

[Vespa]

I think that's why my local heritage line (the Keighley & Worth Valley) is so successful....even though it's slightly less than five miles long.

Having an interchange with modern Keighley can help too, I remember my first time visiting KWVR I travelled by train.

 

[Richard Scott]

GWSR intend to get to Honeybourne eventually to provide a connection with Network Rail, which will be useful for race day specials.

Unlikely to happen any time soon. It would cost a fortune for no real gain. Inly people who would benefit on race days would be the racegoers.

 

[Flying Phil]

Whilst some on here are very concerned about Heritage Railways getting "Too long" and extensions seen as being potentially very bad/unwise, I think it is very dependant on the circumstances of each individual line. In the GCR case, completing the Gap project not only creates an 18 mile running length, it also gives a mainline connection to the whole line - including the 5 mile double track of Lbro to Rothley (This is also passed for high speed test running). Thus the visitor can choose to just enjoy the South section Lbro to Leicester North and return, or the North section Lbro to Ruddington and return or they could choose to do both for a longer experience, stopping at the intermediate stations and even going on the Mountsorrel branch. The double track is key to giving the Main Line experience and frequency of service.

 

[30907]

Having an interchange with modern Keighley can help too, I remember my first time visiting KWVR I travelled by train.

Agree with both points - and (trying to get back on topic) there's little likelihood of an extension, though people do ask if the line ever went further

As a general point, an extension needs to reach either a significant potential traffic source or a significant leisure destination.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Unlikely to happen any time soon. It would cost a fortune for no real gain. Inly people who would benefit on race days would be the racegoers.

Agree. It would increase running time considerably, and mean a less frequent service unless an additional set was run which I can't see happening. And given all the time and money invested in rebuilding Broadway station, that needs to be the primary destination, especially as the village itself, 10 mins walk away, is a tourist honeypot. Given the reported disappointing numbers using the mainline connection at East Grinstead, which is relatively close to London, I can't see Honeybourne being any more successful.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Agree with both points - and (trying to get back on topic) there's little likelihood of an extension, though people do ask if the line ever went further

Although, having said that, I had, for a long time, often wondered where the K&WVR branch line at 'Damems Junction' once headed off towards.

 

[Calthrop]

Agree with both points - and (trying to get back on topic) there's little likelihood of an extension, though people do ask if the line ever went further

Although, having said that, I had, for a long time, often wondered where the K&WVR branch line at 'Damems Junction' once headed off towards.

Any involvement here, with the former Great Northern Railway line between Ingrow (East) (Damems one station up the KWV line from Ingrow) and Bradford / Halifax via Queensbury (passenger service withdrawn 1955) ?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Any involvement here, with the former Great Northern Railway line between Ingrow (East) (Damems one station up the KWV line from Ingrow) and Bradford / Halifax via Queensbury (passenger service withdrawn 1955) ?

Have since read elsewhere that it was local policy to name signalboxes as "XXX Junction" whether or not there was any actual junction there. The signal box at 'Damens Junction' effectively just controls the passing loop between the top end of the K&WVR branch line (Oxenhope/Haworth) and the bottom end (Keighley).

 

[xotGD]

If everyone spent rather too long in The Boltmakers Arms, the KWVR could propose to extend in the form of a second branch to Queensbury and beyond...

 

[eyebrook1961]

Whilst some on here are very concerned about Heritage Railways getting "Too long" and extensions seen as being potentially very bad/unwise, I think it is very dependant on the circumstances of each individual line. In the GCR case, completing the Gap project not only creates an 18 mile running length, it also gives a mainline connection to the whole line - including the 5 mile double track of Lbro to Rothley (This is also passed for high speed test running). Thus the visitor can choose to just enjoy the South section Lbro to Leicester North and return, or the North section Lbro to Ruddington and return or they could choose to do both for a longer experience, stopping at the intermediate stations and even going on the Mountsorrel branch. The double track is key to giving the Main Line experience and frequency of service.

My concern would be that I'd have to sell a decent portion of a kidney to travel when all is done - the current financial turndown for "ordinary" people is likely to last for many years to come, and with the older people falling off their perches, the costs to visit such attractions (and not only steam railways) is going to be exceedingly prohibitive to a large portion of the population

I was involved with a steam railway from 1973 to the mid to late 1980's as a volunteer, but would certainly never pay out to visit nowadays with the costs involved