Longest Shift

[Horizon22]

For pretty much any safety-critical railway staff it is 12 hours.

However, a Duty Control Manager (or other senior service delivery managers) can authorise breaches of hidden (i.e 12+ hours) in severe service disruption (e.g. stranded trains for multiple hours at the end of the day), if agreed with the crew. This normally is agreed, especially if the crew are on the way to their home depot anyway. The maximum I've seen this tick over to is 14h30.

You won't have a 12 hour diagram for train crew anyway, and most are somewhere between 8-10 hours, so there is some slack built in in case of disruption on-route.

Is the railway bothered about fatigue? As far as I'm aware they are the only industry still allowed to work a 72 hour week when all others are working 48 hours average

You can opt out of the working time regulations (as many do). Because the hours on a roster are variant, you will do less and more in certain weeks. In most cases, it will average out to 37 hours/week over X weeks. This of course doesn't include overtime - which is of course completely voluntary.

 

[muz379]

You can opt out of the working time regulations (as many do). Because the hours on a roster are variant, you will do less and more in certain weeks. In most cases, it will average out to 37 hours/week over X weeks. This of course doesn't include overtime - which is of course completely voluntary.

Not all overtime is completely voluntary , if I get marked to a 10 hour job from an 8:30 spare (allowed in our T's&C's) I am working 1:30 of overtime without volunteering .

 

[Horizon22]

Not all overtime is completely voluntary , if I get marked to a 10 hour job from an 8:30 spare (allowed in our T's&C's) I am working 1:30 of overtime without volunteering .

I suppose that's a very specific alteration for spare shifts and, as you say, agreed in your T&Cs. I was referring more to RDW for overtime.

 

[mac]

I work on the railway on 8 hour shifts and with our rostered Sunday's that we have to work we work 20 shifts in our 28 day pay period, during these days we get 3 rest days but on one of them we work 6 hours finishing nights so in 23 days we only get two full days off

 

[muz379]

I suppose that's a very specific alteration for spare shifts and, as you say, agreed in your T&Cs. I was referring more to RDW for overtime.

It does happen quite common , when it comes to the discussion around fatigue though that alteration can actually have a huge impact on fatigue levels .

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Longest jobs we have are 9.59, and 10hr spare turns.
Longest shift I've had was around 13.5hrs due to a fatality 30 minutes from end of shift.
Longest shift not on railway was 26hrs, but that was most definitely not expected.

 

[Ploughman]

On a renewal that went wrong and no nearby relief available, I have been on site for a full 28 hours.
I did manage some doze time while waiting for my part.

 

[Gloster]

Back in the 1980s for around two years I was working every Rest Day and two Sundays out of three; the Sundays were 12 hours, the other days eight. It all seemed quite normal then as management didn’t want to take on too many staff who would be made redundant when resignalling took place. The one thing I didn’t like was the eight hour turnarounds: finish 06.00 Monday after a twelve-hour night and then back at 14.00 to work to 22.00. Or finish 22.00 Saturday and be back at 06.00 Sunday for a twelve-hour shift. Eight-hour turnarounds were accepted for rostered work, but anything off the roster was normally a minimum of nine-hours: that was still not fun if you were doing ‘two in a day’ and covering a night shift after an early, although this only happened very occasionally.

 

[whoosh]

I'm sure GBRf Drivers have something like a max 13 hour shift, but I don't think any driving of trains can take place in the last hour.

Some Cross Country on board staff had above 12 hours a few years ago (something like 12h20). I saw the diagram and was quite surprised.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I'm sure GBRf Drivers have something like a max 13 hour shift, but I don't think any driving of trains can take place in the last hour.

Some Cross Country on board staff had above 12 hours a few years ago (something like 12h20). I saw the diagram and was quite surprised.

Are you sure about the XC diagram, that really doesn't sound right. How the LLC allowed that I'm not sure, doesn't conform to Hidden

 

[Watershed]

Are you sure about the XC diagram, that really doesn't sound right. How the LLC allowed that I'm not sure, doesn't conform to Hidden

I suspect @whoosh may have been referring to RSMs or FCHs, who aren't safety critical staff. In any case, the fact that it doesn't confirm to Hidden guidelines isn't necessarily a job stopper (as exemplified above with 13 hour GBRf shifts).

 

[dk1]

Are you sure about the XC diagram, that really doesn't sound right. How the LLC allowed that I'm not sure, doesn't conform to Hidden

I was thinking the same. That sort of thing does not happen on our rail network & hasn’t done for many moons. Catering are allowed 11 rather than 12 hours rest between shifts but even that is pretty rare these days.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I suspect @whoosh may have been referring to RSMs or FCHs, who aren't safety critical staff. In any case, the fact that it doesn't confirm to Hidden guidelines isn't necessarily a job stopper (as exemplified above with 13 hour GBRf shifts).

Yeah possibly, the only staff at our place who do 12hrs are DTCMs.

I know Freightliner is 12hr max, 16 between shifts which makes up for the longer shifts, guessing GBRF is similar to that.

 

[aleggatta]

Slightly different situation, but as a fitter, when the clocks change there used to be an unwritten rule that the shift would be split in half, with each doing a 12 hour shift. After a manager changes, the decision was made to simply have the whole shift in for 13 hours and pay the extra hour. The reasoning was to prevent people complaining who got to go early/stay late, when in reality no one really cared, and as it was only once a year it was deemed to be within hidden (subject to 12 hours rest)

 

[Nemo01]

Slightly different situation, but as a fitter, when the clocks change there used to be an unwritten rule that the shift would be split in half, with each doing a 12 hour shift. After a manager changes, the decision was made to simply have the whole shift in for 13 hours and pay the extra hour. The reasoning was to prevent people complaining who got to go early/stay late, when in reality no one really cared, and as it was only once a year it was deemed to be within hidden (subject to 12 hours rest)

I'm a Signaller and when the clocks went back I also had to do a 13 hour shift

 

[172007]

Took a peek today at work at our restday equalisation. There are a few drivers at my place who basically try and do the 13 days consecutive and then have the 14th hidden day off. Don't know how they do it tbh. ; sure it's 14th day you have to have off, never got anywhere near it tbh myself.

 

[dk1]

I'm a Signaller and when the clocks went back I also had to do a 13 hour shift

I am so surprised at that. Due to a rostering error this year I had less than 12hrs booked rest & therefore the Duty Traincrew Manager worked his magic to get me away early on the Saturday night.

Took a peek today at work at our restday equalisation. There are a few drivers at my place who basically try and do the 13 days consecutive and then have the 14th hidden day off. Don't know how they do it tbh. ; sure it's 14th day you have to have off, never got anywhere near it tbh myself.

We have several like that who don’t care what they do & therefore often work all Sundays & RDs to help out getting booked off with pay on or before their 14th day.

 

[AndrewE]

Depends on the rostering. At my depot every three weeks you book on Friday, and work right through to the following Thursday (with five long weekend days afterwards to recover) and can end up getting extremely close to the limit from just working normal 10 hour duties daily

That is horrendous! 7 consecutive long working days would leave you (me anyway) so weary that half the "long weekend" would be lost just to recover. Where is the work life balance?
I would be nagging my union to get it stopped. There are much better shift patterns that aren't nearly so exploitative.

 

[Trog]

On a renewal that went wrong and no nearby relief available, I have been on site for a full 28 hours.
I did manage some doze time while waiting for my part.

My personal best (1980's) also on a dodgy renewal was 36 hrs Saturday morning to Sunday afternoon, the Mrs was most unimpressed when I rang up after 18 or so hours to say that I would not be home that night, and let slip that I still had food and drink as I had not had a break yet. She did mellow somewhat later in the week on seeing what such a shift had done to my pay slip.

As for the number of consecutive days worked we would work five days during the week, perhaps with a mid-week night as an extra shift, then do a ~16hr Saturday night Sunday shift, for weeks on end. Monday you were OK as you would go to bed early on Sunday night and sleep like a log. Tuesdays were the worst office populated by zombies, as our bodies realised that the previous week had consisted of eight days and six nights.

 

[eldomtom2]

Wasn't the first law setting maximum hours of duty for railway staff make in the Edwardian era?

 

[Statto]

As a signaller the maximum is 12 hours, with 12 hours rest between shifts, though in an emergency I did once work an extra hour.

12 hours shift with 12 hours rest between shifts isn't that much, when you factor in travel to & from home, dinner, then bed for 6 to 8 hours, & other stuff outside work that might need doing.

 

[Llanigraham]

I'm a Signaller and when the clocks went back I also had to do a 13 hour shift

But 6 months later I then worked an 11 hour shift.

 

[Craig1122]

When I started on the railway in the late nineties a large number of station staff were working long weeks with overtime. 50-60 hour was pretty common. As someone has mentioned up thread some people who were especially keen for money would make sure their 14th day was booked as leave so they were effectively being paid every day of the month. A few hardy souls would do the full 72 hours whenever they could.

 

[Hooligan]

Colas can have you driving a van for an hour either side of a 12 hour shift driving a train!

 

[cjbirkett]

Fort William sleeper attendants used to have long shifts. Sunday night was the longest because it left fort william earlier that night. It was book on fort william 6pm/book off Euston 8am if doing the sleeping cars or book on fort william 6pm/book off fort william 10am if doing the lounge to Edinburgh- you did have a 4 hour wait in Edinburgh but didn't book on/off for it.

They weren't safety critical roles but it was a long drag!

 

[Carlisle]

Some Cross Country on board staff had above 12 hours a few years ago (something like 12h20). I saw the diagram and was quite surprised.

Maybe that’s when they used to do the overnight lodging turns , pre 2002 .

 

[Sunset route]

The “Hidden” recommendations did not put any limit on our working weeks, overtime or rest between shifts but forced British Rail and the various bodies governing the railway industry since to start taking fatigue seriously, with a mix of European working time directives, uk employment law and mainly in house regulations being enforced by the ORR forcing a more compliant working environment for railway workers and contractors.

Page 168 recommendation 18 being the only guidance from the report for our hours worked.

https://www.jesip.org.uk/uploads/media/incident_reports_and_inquiries/Clapham%20Rail%20Crash.pdf

18. BR shall ensure that overtime is monitored so that no individual is working
excessive levels of overtime.

 

[Ex-controller]

For pretty much any safety-critical railway staff it is 12 hours.

However, a Duty Control Manager (or other senior service delivery managers) can authorise breaches of hidden (i.e 12+ hours) in severe service disruption (e.g. stranded trains for multiple hours at the end of the day), if agreed with the crew. This normally is agreed, especially if the crew are on the way to their home depot anyway. The maximum I've seen this tick over to is 14h30.

You won't have a 12 hour diagram for train crew anyway, and most are somewhere between 8-10 hours, so there is some slack built in in case of disruption on-route.



You can opt out of the working time regulations (as many do). Because the hours on a roster are variant, you will do less and more in certain weeks. In most cases, it will average out to 37 hours/week over X weeks. This of course doesn't include overtime - which is of course completely voluntary.

Interesting, as the TOC I previously worked at never had duty control managers taking anything to do with authorising traincrew to work over 12 hours. This would always be a Train Crew Supervisor. The only times that control were closely involved with a crew working over without TCS consent was when it was severe weather where the only way the crew were getting home was by working the train.

 

[Signal_Box]

I’m looking forward to 9 12hr night turns in 8 days woohoo

 

[4F89]

Yeah possibly, the only staff at our place who do 12hrs are DTCMs.

I know Freightliner is 12hr max, 16 between shifts which makes up for the longer shifts, guessing GBRF is similar to that.

I know that FL HH isn't like that. Maybe you need to specify IM