Lost stations - how do you go about getting your station back?

[no commute yet]

My town has track with freight trains but our station closed in the '50s.

What are people's top tips for getting your station put back?

 

[yorkie]

My town has track with freight trains but our station closed in the '50s.

What are people's top tips for getting your station put back?

What sort of case do you have so far? Do you have some compelling reasons why the line should reopen? Has a feasibility study been carried out?

If there are no trains on the line (where is it?) then it would be difficult to get a station opened on it, as a station isn't any good if there are no passenger trains to serve it.

 

[Gathursty]

OP previously posted about Middlewich re-opening in the Summer so I'll assume it's that line/station.

 

[no commute yet]

Hi yes, I started a thread about the Middlewich Link Line and got lots of great replies that convinced me that our line is viable.

What I'm interested in now is how we get Middlewich station and the passenger trains back. We've already got a feasibility report but there's total silence from Network Rail and, what seems to be, lip service from Cheshire East Council. Here's the feasibility report just for info: http://www.mcrua.org.uk/uploads/reo...gers---final-report--july-2009_1248946031.pdf

I'd be grateful for any suggestions about how to move forward and get our station (and passenger trains) back

 

[deltic]

A simplistic answer is politics and money.

So does the scheme have cross-party political support at council and MP level - is your MP a someone or a nobody - ie what clout if any do they have with Govt and what is their relationship with the SofS for transport. What is the view of your Local Enterprise Partnership to the scheme - is it on their priority list of schemes - if not it stands little chance. What support is there for the station from residents and businesses.

The study that was done is now a bit dated - a lot has changed eg in relation to possible HS2 station at Crewe, Northern Hub progress or lack of, new Northern franchise specification - more data is available from 2011 census on travel to work patterns and rail journeys have grown. Given the comments people have made about track condition the capital costs are probably very unrealistic. It therefore needs updating, is someone prepared to pay for that?

The easiest way to make progress is if someone is going to make a financial contribution to the scheme. So what development is planned in the area - are developers prepared or required to make S106 contributions towards the cost of the station at least if not the line upgrade. Is the local council prepared to put some money in. Would the town consider crowd sourcing the funding of a new station?

Talk to other communities that have succeeded in re-opening stations and lines and see what successes and failures they had along the way.

Good luck

 

[Altnabreac]

You need to see how your reopening fits with Altnabreac's 4 golden rules of a successful rail reopening:

1 - Population of 10,000+

2 - 60 minutes (75 at a push) journey time of a major employment centre.

3 - Extant or mainly unobstructed trackbed

4 - Ability to extend an existing service so more terminal capacity is not required.

At first glance you seem to be doing OK on numbers 1, 2 and 3. A decent population served, Manchester is certainly a draw for commuters and the line is all there, albeit not to passenger standards.

So the area you need to concentrate on developing is how you would fit in extra services or divert existing services to serve Middlewich.

This will be the hard bit to make work for your scheme.

 

[northwichcat]

Hi yes, I started a thread about the Middlewich Link Line and got lots of great replies that convinced me that our line is viable.

What I'm interested in now is how we get Middlewich station and the passenger trains back. We've already got a feasibility report but there's total silence from Network Rail and, what seems to be, lip service from Cheshire East Council. Here's the feasibility report just for info: http://www.mcrua.org.uk/uploads/reo...gers---final-report--july-2009_1248946031.pdf

I'd be grateful for any suggestions about how to move forward and get our station (and passenger trains) back

Problem number 1 is the reorganisation of Cheshire councils let it slip down the radar.

Problem number 2 is while the feasibility report got an excellent BCR ratio it mentioned the feasibility could be improved further if further stations were opened/re-opened between Navigation Road and Stockport. TfGM have not acted on that despite a rail/Metrolink interchange at Baguley potentially having a good business case.

Problem number 3 is George Osborne. He's been ignoring the fact his constituency covers villages on the outskirts of Northwich and the A556 towards Rudheath and been focusing on visits to Manchester and Manchester Airport to promote the 'Northern Powerhouse' and HS2 when he could be joining supporting Fiona Bruce with the Middlewich Line campaign.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So the area you need to concentrate on developing is how you would fit in extra services or divert existing services to serve Middlewich.

This will be the hard bit to make work for your scheme.

From December 2017 they'll be additional services between Northwich and Manchester. Unless the winning franchise bidder proposes extending those extra services to Chester they'll be services to extend at off-peak times but the problem will be peak times when the services won't generally be starting/terminating at Northwich.

 

[Pinza-C55]

My town has track with freight trains but our station closed in the '50s.

What are people's top tips for getting your station put back?

Persuade your local MP that there is excellent publicity for him and plenty of publicity shots in front of the derelict station.
Point out that he may one day be able to get his own TV show about old railways.
Remind him there may even be a knighthood involved or a directorship of the franchise operating trains at the reopened station.
Move to Scotland where they take railways seriously.

 

[Tobbes]

Beyond Altnabreac's excellent golden rules

1 - Population of 10,000+

2 - 60 minutes (75 at a push) journey time of a major employment centre.

3 - Extant or mainly unobstructed trackbed

4 - Ability to extend an existing service so more terminal capacity is not required.

may I add a 5th:

5. Lack of other public transport options (substitutability).

In Middlewich's case, you'll need to be able to show why stopping more trains at Winsford and having better bus links to Middlewich (e.g. every 15 minutes) isn't a better (or at least more cost effective) solution to whatever public transport demand you identify. Google suggests that it's less than three miles, and this presumably was one of the reasons that Middlewich lost its station in the first place.

 

[kkong]

You need to see how your reopening fits with Altnabreac's 4 golden rules of a successful rail reopening:

1 - Population of 10,000+

2 - 60 minutes (75 at a push) journey time of a major employment centre.

3 - Extant or mainly unobstructed trackbed

4 - Ability to extend an existing service so more terminal capacity is not required.

Laurencekirk had 2, 3 and 4 but not 1.

The tenacity of a Mr Norman Banski had a lot to do with this (very successful) reopening in 2009.

 

[Argosy]

Laurencekirk had 2, 3 and 4 but not 1.

The tenacity of a Mr Norman Banski had a lot to do with this (very successful) reopening in 2009.

How should rural communuties go about getting stations re-opened since their catchment area would be well below 10,000. Not to mention the slowly diminishing provision of bus services.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

How should rural communuties go about getting stations re-opened since their catchment area would be well below 10,000. Not to mention the slowly diminishing provision of bus services.

Those rural communities should campaign for a peak hour stopper that would serve stations at u, v, w, x, y and z with a request only at all other times.

 

[northwichcat]

In Middlewich's case, you'll need to be able to show why stopping more trains at Winsford and having better bus links to Middlewich (e.g. every 15 minutes) isn't a better (or at least more cost effective) solution to whatever public transport demand you identify. Google suggests that it's less than three miles, and this presumably was one of the reasons that Middlewich lost its station in the first place.

The feasibility report identified high amount of demand for Birmingham and London from East and Central Cheshire. A number of people currently drive to Acton Bridge, Hartford and Winsford for an easier way of getting to both Birmingham and London (compared to using their local station on the Altrincham-Chester line) and at all three of those stations car park demand exceeds the number of car parking spaces. Around Hartford the roads get very congested in the mornings so do we want to start adding extra lanes to roads and building new car parks or provide a service on a railway line which exists but needs some improvements?

 

[DarloRich]

What are people's top tips for getting your station put back?

A cast iron, gold platted, platinum dipped business case with a large % of third party funding coupled with an existing scheme in the area meaning extra work can be undertaken during that period of work along with some pressing local need -but basically cash, and lots of it


if you can get someone other than the railway to pay for the required works you will have a much better chance of succeeding

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Problem number 2 is while the feasibility report got an excellent BCR ratio it mentioned the feasibility could be improved further if further stations were opened/re-opened between Navigation Road and Stockport. TfGM have not acted on that despite a rail/Metrolink interchange at Baguley potentially having a good business case.

I wonder why Baguley is seen as an area in need of a heavy rail station now that the Manchester Metrolink system has a stop there. There are already quite a number of bus services that serve the Wythenshawe areas around Baguley plus Altrincham, Timperley, Northenden and a number of the other surrounding towns.

Is there really an untapped rail demand for heavy-rail passenger services in Baguley these days, noting that the junction on the M56 on Altrincham Road is ideal for car usage for workers on the Roundthorn Industrial Estate, whom I am reliably informed form the vast number of commutes to the many units on this estate. Even the Manchester Metrolink system with its even-nearer Roundthorn stop near to the exceedingly large Wythenshawe Hospital coupled with a good number of bus routes serves that hospital very well indeed.

 

[Tobbes]

The feasibility report identified high amount of demand for Birmingham and London from East and Central Cheshire. A number of people currently drive to Acton Bridge, Hartford and Winsford for an easier way of getting to both Birmingham and London (compared to using their local station on the Altrincham-Chester line) and at all three of those stations car park demand exceeds the number of car parking spaces. Around Hartford the roads get very congested in the mornings so do we want to start adding extra lanes to roads and building new car parks or provide a service on a railway line which exists but needs some improvements?

Well, that's exactly the sort of counter-factual you need to be able to refute. For instance, how much is a new prefab two/three story car park (e.g. Manningtree) to each of these stations plus improved bus links versus rebuilding Middlewich station (and any others on the line) along with any infrastructure upgrades that you'd like to include.

This is not intended to be unhelpful, but this is the quality of the case that needs to be made. Clearly if Middlewich were also adding 5,000 homes and could get a large s106 payment towards the station, that'd make life much easier.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This is not intended to be unhelpful, but this is the quality of the case that needs to be made. Clearly if Middlewich were also adding 5,000 homes and could get a large s106 payment towards the station, that'd make life much easier.

One might ask how many of the owners of those 5,000 homes would have cars to commute, some to business parks in other areas where there would be no direct heavy-rail service, let alone useful bus services.

Park and ride is all well and good if you then go direct to the settlement where you need, but who is then to say that the station you arrive at in the other settlement is anywhere remotely where you actually want to go to.

 

[Bevan Price]

Beyond Altnabreac's excellent golden rules

may I add a 5th:

5. Lack of other public transport options (substitutability).

In Middlewich's case, you'll need to be able to show why stopping more trains at Winsford and having better bus links to Middlewich (e.g. every 15 minutes) isn't a better (or at least more cost effective) solution to whatever public transport demand you identify. Google suggests that it's less than three miles, and this presumably was one of the reasons that Middlewich lost its station in the first place.

Middlewich was one of several lines that almost certainly suffered because the timetable was so pathetic and badly timed. In 1959, it had 4 trains each way, with one extra train on saturdays.

Northwich to Crewe dep 06:59; 08:30; 13:45(SO); 17:15 (SX) / 17:20 (SO) and 18:50 (SX) / 18:55 (SO). Dep. Middlewich 9 minutes later, and mostly taking 26 - 33 minutes between Northwich & Crewe.

Crewe to Northwich dep. 06:15; 07:35; 12:38 (SO); 16:36(SX) / 16:42 (SO) and 18:06. The earliet arrival in Manchester Central was 08:40, and involved a 37 min. connection at Northwich. The second service gave a 7 minute connection for Manchester, arriving at 09:08. The last possible departures from Manchester Central were at 17:38 (SX) or 18:00 (SO).

So, apart maybe for workers at Crewe Works, or at Northwich industry, the services were not very attractive - certainly not for office / shop workers in Manchester.

And, although it may have grown a bit in recent years, Middlewich probably needs a 20,000+ population to attract a viable rail service. It does not even have a very direct bus service to Northwich - all through buses run via Winsford town centre (Arriva Service 37A) and take 47 to 48 minutes. (By rail, Northwich is just over 5 miles from Middlewich.)

 

[northwichcat]

Well, that's exactly the sort of counter-factual you need to be able to refute. For instance, how much is a new prefab two/three story car park (e.g. Manningtree) to each of these stations plus improved bus links versus rebuilding Middlewich station (and any others on the line) along with any infrastructure upgrades that you'd like to include.

Well in the Hartford currently at around 08:30 and 16:00 you have long queues of traffic caused by buses and coaches due to having two high schools, a further education college, a 4-18 private school and numerous primary schools all in one small area so I'd hope planners at the local council would reject an application for an expanded car park if it didn't also include more road capacity.

 

[no commute yet]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

jcollins, I think you're referring to Mid Cheshire college? That college and South Cheshire (in Crewe) are the FE colleges Middlewich students struggle to get to - because they're too young to drive/don't have cars and the buses are so poor.

Perhaps I need to involve the colleges in the campaign? Does anyone have any experience of doing that?

 

[northwichcat]

jcollins, I think you're referring to Mid Cheshire college? That college and South Cheshire (in Crewe) are the FE colleges Middlewich students struggle to get to - because they're too young to drive/don't have cars and the buses are so poor.

Mid-Cheshire college does take pupils from Middlewich. I'm not sure what the bus arrangements are as Mid-Cheshire college does have them on their website.

St Nicholas High School also takes pupils from Middlewich. They do have bus arrangements on their website - the bus takes 45 minutes and a weekly ticket costs £16.50
http://www.st-nicholas.cheshire.sch.uk/index.phtml?d=567441