West Lothian buses

[goldisgood]

lets be fair here, the changes first are putting in are very minimum, One bus extra on 22, 26 and 27. Three extra buses being used from the Livingston depot, and remember there was reduction back in Summer...

While the extra buses for 38 comes from a different company - Midland Bluebird, however has the grant money finally appeared? thus its being spent on this improvement? I still expect one the change to take place up in Winchburgh.

I'd expect that sometime the 38 will become the 38/38A, with services running different routes every 30 minutes in Winchburgh to serve the new development?

 

[overthewater]

No. The timetable has already been postage.

 

[Observer]

While the extra buses for 38 comes from a different company - Midland Bluebird, however has the grant money finally appeared? thus its being spent on this improvement? I still expect one the change to take place up in Winchburgh.

Well do they need to bring up extra buses for the 38? Bear in mind that a few Volvos have gone to Aberdeen and Glasgow, some E300s have gone south.

If they had sense they would have replaced the StreetLites altogether with a new order, it is well known they have not been so good for this route and heavier buses should have been ordered. Knowing First, they'd probably just replace them with the longest E200MMCs available.

 

[Driver362]

Thank you otw I stand corrected

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Newbridge now off , we’re heading to Livingston location undisclosed as yet hopefully in time for phase4

Really? that’s was unexpected, I suppose keeping the depot exclusive to the Coaches brings in more room for extra coaches in the future, and the same will go to LCB once you get your new depot sorted, especially if phase 4 goes underway in the start of the year, though I suppose a network change is expected soon whenever the next service changes are announced. probably March time.

Whatever LCB choose to do for Phase 4 *cough* Kirkliston. I expect it’ll be announced when the buses move out of Longstone, probably in the next few months.

On an unrelated note I hope you all had a nice Christmas!

 

[Driver362]

I did very much so hope you had one to eastcoaster ? , you suppose correct ,I heard on radio grapevine the coach dept is getting more stock as.I've previously stated ,also of the network review ,they are not daft and don't need to come on here to find out some routes are very poor ,but,they have recognised that and I think there are p!ans afoot to address that you can see in a.daily basis the other co is still doing well in most areas for all the were glad your here LOTHIAN they still get on the blue buses to areas we serve ? But that's for those far smarter than me to sort out !

 

[overthewater]

However there still keep on missing the boat.. Phrase 3 should have been Kirkliston, with First back at every 15mins Lothian will need to fight hard. Worse still there still the little problem of the ridacards... Here is a problem, You can travel on No63 with one.... and travel to Gyle for £1.70.... yet LCB fare just to Maybury would be £2.70..

 

[Driver362]

Yes yes we've been over this before ,and I asked you if yo can go from East mains to Livingston toll for £1.70 on a blue bus ,no you can't in most areas lcb is cheaper than first swings and roundabouts,one a zonall system one a stage system swings and roundabouts old boy ,how much is a single from broxburn to the centre?

 

[In Focus]

I did very much so hope you had one to eastcoaster ? , you suppose correct ,I heard on radio grapevine the coach dept is getting more stock as.I've previously stated ,also of the network review ,they are not daft and don't need to come on here to find out some routes are very poor ,but,they have recognised that and I think there are p!ans afoot to address that you can see in a.daily basis the other co is still doing well in most areas for all the were glad your here LOTHIAN they still get on the blue buses to areas we serve ? But that's for those far smarter than me to sort out !

I think your last part kind of sums up the real dilemma for LCB as they really thought that once they served an area people would flock into their service and leave First with nothing ,that hasn't happened although 280 and 275 do quite well due to timing issue a lot of people still await First for whatever reason ,whether it's weekly tickets or monthly it seens some jist prefer to stick with What they know which must be quite a shock for those in charge at LCB who had read social media and thought it would be plain sailing

 

[In Focus]

Yes yes we've been over this before ,and I asked you if yo can go from East mains to Livingston toll for £1.70 on a blue bus ,no you can't in most areas lcb is cheaper than first swings and roundabouts,one a zonall system one a stage system swings and roundabouts old boy ,how much is a single from broxburn to the centre?

You have to be careful that cheaper doesn't make it unviable as a business . Fares have to remain realistic or it will be commercially suicidal.
On another note whichever company remain in WL I think the fares will increase quite significantly once it's a 1 horse race .

 

[overthewater]

Yes yes we've been over this before ,and I asked you if yo can go from East mains to Livingston toll for £1.70 on a blue bus ,no you can't in most areas lcb is cheaper than first swings and roundabouts,one a zonall system one a stage system swings and roundabouts old boy ,how much is a single from broxburn to the centre?

Your clearly missing the point.............. Im not talking about main area, Im talking about Kirkliston................... Same company two different fares...

there still the little problem of the ridacards... Here is a problem, You can travel on No63 with one.... and travel to Gyle for £1.70.... yet LCB fare just to Maybury would be £2.70..

How can this actually work, the people of kirkliston will not see any difference buy the riderscards and be told you have pay more? Or wait for 63 and change to the tram? I doubt that will go down very well..

 

[livi man]

Is the depot going to be the old councils yard

 

[Driver362]

we as drivers keep pointing these anomalies out but unless a major 're think outwith a network review on the boundaries I can't see how it can be fair for everyone ,move thrones on o e it knackered the others ,kinda like the next fair stage with that system who decides when the unlucky person around the corner pay more that the person at the previous stage ?granted its normally with the same company and not like us being the same co with different fares ? It's a difficult one for sure and one we are just as interested in the answer as you guys ,but in conclusion I suppose depot location is one step closer to deans front door eh liviman ,tell me who owns the deans site land ?

 

[Lothian_Bus]

First have tried Edinburgh in the past. It hasn't worked out.

The main one being in 2001 when they attempted to copy key Lothian routes such as the 11 and 22 which ultimately ended in failure.

It would need to be something original and sustainable that they came up with to challenge in Edinburgh.

 

[yorkie]

just a gentle reminder that if anyone is unhappy with any post, as stated in our forum rules, please "please alert us to it, by reporting it"; if you wish to request a post is deleted it is important not to re-publish it, refer to it or react to it. If you prefer to challenge a post, then this needs to be done in a respectful manner. Thank you.

Also a reminder that our rules require "All contributions [to] be readable and understandable... you should make reasonable efforts to use correct spelling, punctuation and grammar in all your contributions"

 

[In Focus]

we as drivers keep pointing these anomalies out but unless a major 're think outwith a network review on the boundaries I can't see how it can be fair for everyone ,move thrones on o e it knackered the others ,kinda like the next fair stage with that system who decides when the unlucky person around the corner pay more that the person at the previous stage ?granted its normally with the same company and not like us being the same co with different fares ? It's a difficult one for sure and one we are just as interested in the answer as you guys ,but in conclusion I suppose depot location is one step closer to deans front door eh liviman ,tell me who owns the deans site land ?

First own it .

First have tried Edinburgh in the past. It hasn't worked out.

The main one being in 2001 when they attempted to copy key Lothian routes such as the 11 and 22 which ultimately ended in failure.

It would need to be something original and sustainable that they came up with to challenge in Edinburgh.

Lothian have tried West Lothian before, it hasn't worked.

First will not be after too many parts if Edinburgh but by dropping fares on 3 corridors from the West it poses Lothian an issue as they won't be able to drop fares on one side of Edinburgh without upsetting other areas.

I'd also imagine Edinburgh Airport will be of interest going East to First when that comes around for bids.

Probably do just enough to annoy and see if LCB can take as much out of West Lothian as first can on West side if the City.

 

[Driver362]

Thank you. I was led to believe West Lothian council owned it. I suppose I was misinformed.

As far as I was led to believe Lothian's last venture was a compromise deal with First, was it not?

How would Competition and Markets Authority not have something to say? I seem to recall them viewing First as a bigger company overall so they have an unfair advantage?

I may be wrong, its not as if I've not been before.

 

[tbtc]

Lothian have tried West Lothian before, it hasn't worked

LRT ran the 9/63/64 into West Lothian.

In layman terms, withdrawing these/ cutting them back into the city boundaries (and coming out of South Queensferry too) was the price that they paid for Eastern/ SMT coming out of various Edinburgh estates and cutting back to just the main roads within the city.

Obviously for "competition" reasons, there was no official deal, it was just pure coincidence that LRT came out of West Lothian at the same time in 1994 that SMT abandoned some reasonably long established "city" routes (Oxgangs? Muirhouse?) and cut back the frequency of routes like the "CitySprinter" C55 etc (as well as abandoning extensions like the Bathgate services that ran through to Lochend) - pure coincidence!

But I don't think it's fair to say that the LRT operations "didn't work" - they were scaled back/withdrawn as the price to pay for SMT abandoning lucrative territory inside the city. If the 9/63/64 were failing then SMT wouldn't have been worried about them and would have been happy to continue routes like the C1 that had been in operation since deregulation eight years earlier.

Certainly the 9/63/64 must have hit a nerve with SMT because they upped the Edinburgh - Bathgate frequency to four/hour and introduced new "Diamond" standards to the 27 corridor.

It's a bit like saying that the First service 56 to Ballingray "failed" because they withdrew it (at the same time that Stagecoach coincidently pulled out of some juicy corridors in Glasgow)... in reality it was a pawn exchanged to secure a monopoly elsewhere (just like the 9/63/64).

 

[In Focus]

LRT ran the 9/63/64 into West Lothian.

In layman terms, withdrawing these/ cutting them back into the city boundaries (and coming out of South Queensferry too) was the price that they paid for Eastern/ SMT coming out of various Edinburgh estates and cutting back to just the main roads within the city.

Obviously for "competition" reasons, there was no official deal, it was just pure coincidence that LRT came out of West Lothian at the same time in 1994 that SMT abandoned some reasonably long established "city" routes (Oxgangs? Muirhouse?) and cut back the frequency of routes like the "CitySprinter" C55 etc (as well as abandoning extensions like the Bathgate services that ran through to Lochend) - pure coincidence!

But I don't think it's fair to say that the LRT operations "didn't work" - they were scaled back/withdrawn as the price to pay for SMT abandoning lucrative territory inside the city. If the 9/63/64 were failing then SMT wouldn't have been worried about them and would have been happy to continue routes like the C1 that had been in operation since deregulation eight years earlier.

Certainly the 9/63/64 must have hit a nerve with SMT because they upped the Edinburgh - Bathgate frequency to four/hour and introduced new "Diamond" standards to the 27 corridor.

It's a bit like saying that the First service 56 to Ballingray "failed" because they withdrew it (at the same time that Stagecoach coincidently pulled out of some juicy corridors in Glasgow)... in reality it was a pawn exchanged to secure a monopoly elsewhere (just like the 9/63/64).

Not to mention the loss if approx 6 million in space of 12 months . They were running state of the Art vehicles against old Leylands and Atlantians and struggled to make any Real inroads into WL, although I do agree in the end it probably suited both and with the impending First takeover I'm guessing discussions took place .
I do not think with the egos currently in charge at both companies presently that will happen this time around and with LCB aggressive move into WL I'd be amazed if MrJarvis sits back and accepts that's how it will be without planning some sort of move into West of the City.

 

[oldman]

Where do you get losses of £6M in the 1990s from? That's about the same as ECB's total turnover in 2017.

Part of Lothian's tactics back then was to undercut SMT on price, as they had done when they first expanded out of the city in the 1980s. I remember a colleague from Midcalder grumbling about the fares going back up after Lothian left WL.

 

[livi man]

just a gentle reminder that if anyone is unhappy with any post, as stated in our forum rules, please "please alert us to it, by reporting it"; if you wish to request a post is deleted it is important not to re-publish it, refer to it or react to it. If you prefer to challenge a post, then this needs to be done in a respectful manner. Thank you.

Also a reminder that our rules require "All contributions [to] be readable and understandable... you should make reasonable efforts to use correct spelling, punctuation and grammar in all your contributions"

Do you mean don't say anything bad about lcb

 

[yorkie]

Do you mean don't say anything bad about lcb

No, I don't mean that.

I don't know what "lcb" means either.

 

[overthewater]

LCB means Lothian Country buses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Do you mean don't say anything bad about lcb

Don't think it was a case of stopping discussions and opinions. I think the mod is just trying to point out that the partisan opinions were in danger of overstepping the line and become insults.

The other point is the ability to comprehend posts. Some of it is jargon, but some is also the challenge of deciphering poorly punctuated or spelt posts.

 

[livi man]

Tell me where the spelling problem is

 

[livi man]

Think he knows what lcb means

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Think he knows what lcb means

Some people will obviously know what LCB means but not everyone.

Tell me where the spelling problem is

Not necessarily your posts but other people. However, not going to call people out....

 

[overthewater]

Lets all have a nice cup of tea and come back tomorrow refresh and happier. I have never seen the ugly side of bus wars until now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Lets all have a nice cup of tea and come back tomorrow refresh and happier. I have never seen the ugly side of bus wars until now.

Indeed - still the season of goodwill and all that!

Ps I worked in Darlington in 1993/4 - that was fairly tasty

 

[Stef434]

Newbridge now off , we’re heading to Livingston location undisclosed as yet hopefully in time for phase4

wouldn't be in the Deans South area by chance that bit of land next to FSE don't want to speculate
Oh... don't pull the 287 from wester inch