Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Resuwen]

What differences would be needed between an HK model and a UK model?

 

[Lewisham2221]

What differences would be needed between an HK model and a UK model?

Heating!

Based on the knowledge that a large operator near me once received a small batch of former Hong Kong vehicles, which were universally unpopular due to being completely devoid of any cab or saloon heating system.

 

[scosutsut]

Heating!

Based on the knowledge that a large operator near me once received a small batch of former Hong Kong vehicles, which were universally unpopular due to being completely devoid of any cab or saloon heating system.

I assume some sort of additional certification to be used in the UK would be the only other blocker.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I assume some sort of additional certification to be used in the UK would be the only other blocker.

Yes, my original post was slightly tongue in cheek and not exclusive of any other alterations that may be required.

I recall a number of Irish (ex-Dublin) buses becoming available on the UK/GB market some time around late 00's/early 10's that required some modifications in order to be registered as PSVs over here - I think it was fairly minor stuff like lighting alterations. There may also be some alterations required to meet PSVAR requirements, but again I expect these would be relatively minor changes in the grand scheme of things, and certainly nothing that should be particularly challenging to incorporate at the production stage

 

[scosutsut]

Yes, my original post was slightly tongue in cheek and not exclusive of any other alterations that may be required.

I recall a number of Irish (ex-Dublin) buses becoming available on the UK/GB market some time around late 00's/early 10's that required some modifications in order to be registered as PSVs over here - I think it was fairly minor stuff like lighting alterations. There may also be some alterations required to meet PSVAR requirements, but again I expect these would be relatively minor changes in the grand scheme of things, and certainly nothing that should be particularly challenging to incorporate at the production stage

Sorry I missed the sarcasm, my response wasn't meant with any though

I'd agree that it's all in the realm of the possible, it would be a lot less work, than say, Alexander Dennis developing a whole new bespoke solution for the B8L and barely selling any after the original order.... Like... Oh... Oops!

I'd certainly agree with the earlier post that I'd rather it was an option and run the AD variable build quality gauntlet than look at the new Yutong front end, which looks like a child's drawing of a bus! It's absolutely gopping.

 

[CSB0241]

Rumour has it that these are the Airlink replacements later this year.

Yutong’s New Generation U12DD Battery Electric Double Decker Wows the Audience!_Corporate News-Yutong

On May 6, the roll-off ceremony of Yutong’s new generation U12DD battery electric double decker was held at Yutong Electric Bus Intelligent Manufacturing Factory, Zhengzhou City, China. This model will establish new benchmarks for high-end electric double-deckers, elevating public transportation...

en.yutong.com

View attachment 179543

U12DDs feel like an interesting choice, though I do prefer the U11DDs in Dundee to the BZLs in Edinburgh so would be curious to see how these handle.

I have considered the possibility of Lothian abandoning Volvo after this. Pelican with Yutong have consistently put everyone to shame with efficiency here. They’re miles ahead of the rest.

I think Wright are also on the table. NewPower are (if I amn’t mistaken) owned by WrightBus, & they’ve been left in charge of repowering the tour buses after I believe 233 caught fire shortly after Kleandrive electrified it, so I could see Lothian trying to get Streetdeck EVs like in Glasgow. They’ve already had experience with Electroliners before anyway, the demonstrator spent a good while with Lothian.

I am very much of the opinion of 'I'll believe it when I see it' however, as other people have said - Volvo MCV have taken so long to deliver the BZLs that it could be almost 2 years between them being ordered and all 50 being in service, so moving to a different manufacurer wouldn't be without good reason.

I agree, Lothian buying Yutongs feels like such a foreign idea though not entirely insane after the BZLs have been - for the sake of overdramatising - an absolute travesty.

I was told that the BZL doesn't have the structure to support drilling (and supporting) luggage racks, plus they're far too small anyway and capacity would be a major issue. It's just a rumour, but from reliable sources and would make perfect sense.

That is something I didn’t know, but that’s really gonna throw a hammer in the works in regards to Airlink BZLs.

They have a claimed range of 670km and the article states they're designed for intensive usage, and have dual gun charging that can be done in 2 hours so they're the perfect replacement for the XLBs.

Especially for how intense some Airlink rotas are, that does sound like a reasonable thing for Lothian to take into account.

I suspect if Lothian do take a batch of Yutongs (hopefully dual door) then they will go in that direction for future orders too

A tri-axle bus without dual doors in the modern day isn’t something I’d be expecting.

If Lothian do switch to Yutong, I belive that it will be a better decision as they seem to be very reliable and their buses that McGill's and Ember have are good quality products.

I might not love the E12s or TCe12s, but after using the GTe14s & U11DDs here & there, I do have to say that they are honestly pretty solid buses all things considered. They might not be the best of the best, but they are consistent quality wise, & I would say that they are of relatively high standard.

I'm curious if its possible to remove the second staircase from that Yutong model.

I think that that space could maybe make for an extra row of seats or two if so, 2 staircases feels a bit over the top for a bus of it’s kind.

I really hope lothian aren’t planning on replacing XLB‘s 1 for 1 with E12DD‘s.

To match capacity would require 3 E12DD‘s for every E400XLB.

The E12DD seats 68 while the E400xlb has 100 seats. While the airline configs have less seats, that will scale for both, especially with only 55 seats on the top deck of the E12DD

I’m curious as to how you’ve worked out that you’d need 3 U12DDs to replace just 1 XLB.

The Yutong DD look soo ugly in my opinion. I wonder if these would be any better?

The problem is that E500EVs aren’t made for the UK market, so that wouldn’t really work. Additionally, I think after the plethora of prebuilt with the E200EVs in Glasgow, Lothian might be put off investing in them.

 

[stevenedin]

The new announcements, are they computerised or something? Thr voice seems to sound like it has broken speech at times and uses weird pronunciations like Foun-tain-park instead on pronounced Foun-tin-park.

 

[Bus9120UK]

The new announcements, are they computerised or something? Thr voice seems to sound like it has broken speech at times and uses weird pronunciations like Foun-tain-park instead on pronounced Foun-tin-park.

It's text to speech, that's what enables it to make diversion / stop closure announcements unlike the previous system. I've noticed they've been fixing pronunciation, Balgreen was pronounced Bal (rhyming with pal) green until recently.

 

[danielhogg2005]

It's text to speech, that's what enables it to make diversion / stop closure announcements unlike the previous system. I've noticed they've been fixing pronunciation, Balgreen was pronounced Bal (rhyming with pal) green until recently.

I was surprised that they had the diversion announcements aswell until I used a 121 from Haddington to North Berwick on Sunday and it announced that the stops between East Fortune and Kingston where closed, it's very useful feature that it has there.

One thing I was surprised at, is that on the 120 & 121 routes (probably 123 aswell), there was no physical bus stops in Tantallon Castle or Athelstaneford and the buses where dropping people off at the side of the road.

 

[NIT100]

I was surprised that they had the diversion announcements aswell until I used a 121 from Haddington to North Berwick on Sunday and it announced that the stops between East Fortune and Kingston where closed, it's very useful feature that it has there.

This is a legal requirement under the Public Service Vehicles (Accessible Information) Regulations, and should be in place on all currently in scope vehicles.

 

[InOban]

I was surprised that they had the diversion announcements aswell until I used a 121 from Haddington to North Berwick on Sunday and it announced that the stops between East Fortune and Kingston where closed, it's very useful feature that it has there.

One thing I was surprised at, is that on the 120 & 121 routes (probably 123 aswell), there was no physical bus stops in Tantallon Castle or Athelstaneford and the buses where dropping people off at the side of the road.

I think that's quite normal in the countryside. Buses will pick up and set down anywhere it's safe. If there is a bus shelter it will be on the side where pupils wait for their bus to school. Obviously on the way home they've no need.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Yes, my original post was slightly tongue in cheek and not exclusive of any other alterations that may be required.

I recall a number of Irish (ex-Dublin) buses becoming available on the UK/GB market some time around late 00's/early 10's that required some modifications in order to be registered as PSVs over here - I think it was fairly minor stuff like lighting alterations. There may also be some alterations required to meet PSVAR requirements, but again I expect these would be relatively minor changes in the grand scheme of things, and certainly nothing that should be particularly challenging to incorporate at the production stage

I worked for Edwards Coaches in 2009 and they 'imported' a batch of Wright Crusader Dart SLFs, as that length of dart wasn't produced for the mainland they all had to go for a certificate of initial fitness (they were from different batches and had different interior layouts/seats).

I really hope lothian aren’t planning on replacing XLB‘s 1 for 1 with E12DD‘s.

To match capacity would require 3 E12DD‘s for every E400XLB.

The E12DD seats 68 while the E400xlb has 100 seats. While the airline configs have less seats, that will scale for both, especially with only 55 seats on the top deck of the E12DD

The Airlink XLBs have 81 seated and 29 standing, so not a massive difference.

 

[Lx008]

U12DDs feel like an interesting choice, though I do prefer the U11DDs in Dundee to the BZLs in Edinburgh so would be curious to see how these handle.


I think Wright are also on the table. NewPower are (if I amn’t mistaken) owned by WrightBus, & they’ve been left in charge of repowering the tour buses after I believe 233 caught fire shortly after Kleandrive electrified it, so I could see Lothian trying to get Streetdeck EVs like in Glasgow. They’ve already had experience with Electroliners before anyway, the demonstrator spent a good while with Lothian.


I agree, Lothian buying Yutongs feels like such a foreign idea though not entirely insane after the BZLs have been - for the sake of overdramatising - an absolute travesty.


That is something I didn’t know, but that’s really gonna throw a hammer in the works in regards to Airlink BZLs.


Especially for how intense some Airlink rotas are, that does sound like a reasonable thing for Lothian to take into account.


A tri-axle bus without dual doors in the modern day isn’t something I’d be expecting.


I might not love the E12s or TCe12s, but after using the GTe14s & U11DDs here & there, I do have to say that they are honestly pretty solid buses all things considered. They might not be the best of the best, but they are consistent quality wise, & I would say that they are of relatively high standard.


I think that that space could maybe make for an extra row of seats or two if so, 2 staircases feels a bit over the top for a bus of it’s kind.


I’m curious as to how you’ve worked out that you’d need 3 U12DDs to replace just 1 XLB.


The problem is that E500EVs aren’t made for the UK market, so that wouldn’t really work. Additionally, I think after the plethora of prebuilt with the E200EVs in Glasgow, Lothian might be put off investing in them.

Apologies, it should have said for every 2 E400XLB, there would need to be 3 E12DDs

I worked for Edwards Coaches in 2009 and they 'imported' a batch of Wright Crusader Dart SLFs, as that length of dart wasn't produced for the mainland they all had to go for a certificate of initial fitness (they were from different batches and had different interior layouts/seats).



The Airlink XLBs have 81 seated and 29 standing, so not a massive difference.

While the airlink XLB’s do have less seats than the standard XLB, a airlink E12DD would also have less seats than standard, so likely even less than the 68 seats that would come in a standard E12DD

 

[GusB]

While the airlink XLB’s do have less seats than the standard XLB, a airlink E12DD would also have less seats than standard, so likely even less than the 68 seats that would come in a standard E12DD

Where are you getting the figure of 68 from? The article linked in post #14,889 says:

Featuring a rational three-door, dual-staircase layout, the bus accommodates up to 120 passengers.

There's no mention of the actual number of seats and it's likely that there will the option to have them tailored to Lothian's specification. I really can't see why they wouldn't have a similar capacity to the XLBs.

 

[stevenedin]

It's text to speech, that's what enables it to make diversion / stop closure announcements unlike the previous system. I've noticed they've been fixing pronunciation, Balgreen was pronounced Bal (rhyming with pal) green until recently.

Thanks that's a really useful feature. I'm guessing that all buses will eventually be changed to using these announcements over time.

 

[Lx008]

Where are you getting the figure of 68 from? The article linked in post #14,889 says:


There's no mention of the actual number of seats and it's likely that there will the option to have them tailored to Lothian's specification. I really can't see why they wouldn't have a similar capacity to the XLBs.

The 68 comes from the tower transit Singapore‘s datasheet.
The exact breakdown is:
55 seated (upper deck)
13 seated (lower deck)
52 standing (lower deck)

For a total of 120 pax.

The E400 XLB has (according to datasheet)
61 seated (upper deck)
39 seated (lower deck)
31 standing (lower deck)

For a total of 131 pax

The main difference in lower deck seating comes from the last row on the E12DD being infront of the rearmost axle

 

[stevenedin]

Has anyone else noticed a lot of Marine buses on the 25 recently? Has there been a change?