Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

[CSB0241]

I’d propose extending the 71 to start back from Waterloo Place, following the route of the X27/28 to Sighthill, then up to the Gyle, and run it as it currently does towards Newbridge, Kirkliston and Queensferry - additionally serving Edinburgh Airport on the way. I’d then add a 71A which would run the same route from Edinburgh - Kirkliston (via Sighthill, Gyle, Airport and Newbridge), but continues along to Winchburgh, then up to Newton, and back along to Queensferry.

Yeah, as @InOban & @Metal Mickey have said, the 71A would probably only work if it was run on a minibus like a Mellor Strata or EVM Cityline with one return journey a day.

 

[mb88]

I would honestly revert the 72 back to its original route (Kirkliston to Livingston Centre via Winchburgh, Broxburn, Uphall, Fastlink, St John’s, Howden) still running hourly and introduce a new half hourly service from Broxburn, East Mains to Fauldhouse via the current 72 route. I can’t see how they can address the reliability and capacity issues in its current form as there’s not much scope for reducing the layover at either end and I don’t see there being demand for a half hourly service on the Broxburn to Kirkliston section.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I would honestly revert the 72 back to its original route (Kirkliston to Livingston Centre via Winchburgh, Broxburn, Uphall, Fastlink, St John’s, Howden) still running hourly and introduce a new half hourly service from Broxburn, East Mains to Fauldhouse via the current 72 route. I can’t see how they can address the reliability and capacity issues in its current form as there’s not much scope for reducing the layover at either end and I don’t see there being demand for a half hourly service on the Broxburn to Kirkliston section.

I like this idea. Simple and realistic for sure. Though I would say I think it’s more likely a bus would run beyond Livingston in my opinion. You could use the revised 72 to boost the A71 corridor to every 30 minutes as far as Loganlea for example.

 

[mb88]

I like this idea. Simple and realistic for sure. Though I would say I think it’s more likely a bus would run beyond Livingston in my opinion. You could use the revised 72 to boost the A71 corridor to every 30 minutes as far as Loganlea for example.

Yes you might be onto something there, although I think with the 34A and the 74 2 buses per hour between Livingston and West Calder is probably enough, although it’s unfortunate they both run within 15 minutes of each other and then a lengthy gap.

 

[SoloSR334022]

Let's see here, got this from the Lothain Group Discussion Thread.

73: Changed to operate via Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn then Wester Inch and Bathgate. Remains hourly. The route would share that of the 72 between Blackburn and Livingston, but serve Livingston Village instead of Eliburn. Also extended to Kirkliston via current 72 route. J4 M8 Distribution Centre would no longer be served.

I'm guessing this would see the X27 or X28 diverted via Deans South? Could send this one to Armadale instead on the 74 because of the fare zones.

X27/X28: Increased to every 15/30 minutes. Possible that a few extend to J4 M8 Distribution Centre where necessary?

Agree with the frequency, the extension to J4 M8 in the Morning peak and Late night peak could maybe work with the link to Livingston, Bathgate and Edinburgh.

74: Extended to Blackridge via existing 73 route from Livingston to Bathgate, then via Lower Bathville and Armadale. Frequency increased to every 30 minutes.

Maybe an extension out towards South West Edinburgh could be on the cards in the future, but this wouldn't work due to fare zones.

72: Curtailed to terminate at Broxburn at East Mains. 73 would serve Kirkliston. Controversial yes, but with the revised 73 you can offer a half hourly service between Blackburn and Livingston and between Broxburn and Livingston which is by far the ‘core’ section. This neatly fixes the long running problem too. Handful of 72’s could divert to serve J4 M8 Distribution Centre to part replace 73.

Would this mean 2bph through Pumpherson and Uphall Station?

 

[Busman757]

Personally I can see the X19 being extended from its terminus in Winchburgh to Linlithgow Bridge via the M9, Springfield and Linlithgow town centre. (Old EX2 route, from the new M9 junction)

 

[Metal Mickey]

Personally I can see the X19 being extended from its terminus in Winchburgh to Linlithgow Bridge via the M9, Springfield and Linlithgow town centre. (Old EX2 route, from the new M9 junction)

I remember an X19 from Edinburgh to Grangemouth via M9 and Bo’ness but what X19 is running these days.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Personally I can see the X19 being extended from its terminus in Winchburgh to Linlithgow Bridge via the M9, Springfield and Linlithgow town centre. (Old EX2 route, from the new M9 junction)

That was my thought, but I can only see that happening if either the X19 becomes a hit success or McGills cut down the X38, it would also mean that Lothian could run a double decker to Linlithgow if they wanted too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

 

[stevenedin]

That was my thought, but I can only see that happening if either the X19 becomes a hit success or McGills cut down the X38, it would also mean that Lothian could run a double decker to Linlithgow if they wanted too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

If things get bad for McGill’s they could skip Winchburgh and Kirkliston and go direct from Linlithgow to Edinburgh

 

[TheEastCoaster]

If things get bad for McGill’s they could skip Winchburgh and Kirkliston and go direct from Linlithgow to Edinburgh

True, but there is the section between Linlithgow and Winchburgh which would be without a bus service.

 

[stevenedin]

True, but there is the section between Linlithgow and Winchburgh which would be without a bus service.

That’s true which would probably end up being a council subsidy if that happened.

 

[zjsptgzxyspks]

I think the 15 needs to be cut to Regent Rd and sent down as limited stop until Fairmilehead, then Easter Bush, U-turn at Gowkley Moss, then Easter Howgate, A702, Mauricewood, then terminates at Penicuik. Mon - Sat daytime.
The 4 needs an hourly extension after Hillend to Straiton - Lang Loan - Gilmerton Station Rd - Ferniehill - terminates at Danderhall.
evenings and Sundays the Fairmilehead - Easter Bush - Mauricewood - Penicuik section can be covered by hourly extension of the 4.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I think the 15 needs to be cut to Regent Rd and sent down as limited stop until Fairmilehead, then Easter Bush, U-turn at Gowkley Moss, then Easter Howgate, A702, Mauricewood, then terminates at Penicuik. Mon - Sat daytime.
The 4 needs an hourly extension after Hillend to Straiton - Lang Loan - Gilmerton Station Rd - Ferniehill - terminates at Danderhall.
evenings and Sundays the Fairmilehead - Easter Bush - Mauricewood - Penicuik section can be covered by hourly extension of the 4.

I think the simplest thing to do is to extend the 4 to Bush all the time. The new terminus at Hillend isn’t really a proper terminus and I’ve never seen why it stops there. The 15 could be rerouted to pick up Mauricewood and run onto Penicuik, being increased to half hourly. You could make a valid argument for it returning to be the X15 as well, but stopping at Regent Road.

I think your idea for Lang Loan, Gilmerton Station Road etc is too complicated. A bus from Liberton is better set up to pick this up, likely stopping at Gilmerton Terminus or continuing towards Dalkeith/Eskbank.

 

[CSB0241]

I think the 15 needs to be cut to Regent Rd and sent down as limited stop until Fairmilehead, then Easter Bush, U-turn at Gowkley Moss, then Easter Howgate, A702, Mauricewood, then terminates at Penicuik. Mon - Sat daytime.
The 4 needs an hourly extension after Hillend to Straiton - Lang Loan - Gilmerton Station Rd - Ferniehill - terminates at Danderhall.
evenings and Sundays the Fairmilehead - Easter Bush - Mauricewood - Penicuik section can be covered by hourly extension of the 4.

At that rate, they should just make the 4 a circular route.

 

[FP transport v]

In regards to the Penicuik corridor topic, I think the 15 being extended is the best option. I would have it following the current route to Gowkley Moss, then serve Auchendinny, along passed the high school, turn right and go up the hill on Mauricewood road, left onto Silurian road, then right following the 37 Silverknowes bound through Deanburn, terminate at penucuick town centre, then operating back the main road then up the hill passed Deanburn turning circle then back onto Silurian road. This route isn't ideal, I would've had it so a reverse and go back the same way rather than doing a loop around Penicuik if it were possible to turn around at Penicuik town centre from this direction

 

[Jonathan Lynch]

In regards to the Penicuik corridor topic, I think the 15 being extended is the best option. I would have it following the current route to Gowkley Moss, then serve Auchendinny, along passed the high school, turn right and go up the hill on Mauricewood road, left onto Silurian road, then right following the 37 Silverknowes bound through Deanburn, terminate at penucuick town centre, then operating back the main road then up the hill passed Deanburn turning circle then back onto Silurian road. This route isn't ideal, I would've had it so a reverse and go back the same way rather than doing a loop around Penicuik if it were possible to turn around at Penicuik town centre from this direction

This isn't possible until sulurian road opens. The concreate bollards are still in place at the deanburn side stopping any though traffic. (unless they have been removed since last week). There is a possibility for a bus to turn at penicuk town centre the country buses 141 and 140 do it in the other direction at the roundabout at lidl. Terminus could be on penicuik high street on either side of the road.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

This isn't possible until sulurian road opens. The concreate bollards are still in place at the deanburn side stopping any though traffic. (unless they have been removed since last week). There is a possibility for a bus to turn at penicuk town centre the country buses 141 and 140 do it in the other direction at the roundabout at lidl. Terminus could be on penicuik high street on either side of the road.

This whole idea be one for the next set of changes though, looks close to opening up to me.

 

[FP transport v]

Terminus could be on penicuik high street on either side of the road.

I thought about having it terminate there but the road is too narrow to have bus sitting there for any length of time

 

[SoloSR334022]

I have a suggestion for a new route LCB to Interwork with a revised 73.

Revised Service 73 - No longer continues to Blackburn via Wester Inch see service 75.
Now serves Armadale, Honeyman via Bathville.

New Service 75 - Livingston Sth Station <> Bathgate Railway Station via Livingston Bus Terminal, Almondvale Stadium, St. John's Hospital, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn, Wester Inch, Bathgate Morrisons (Interworks with 73 here.) and Sth Bridge St.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I have a suggestion for a new route LCB to Interwork with a revised 73.

Revised Service 73 - No longer continues to Blackburn via Wester Inch see service 75.
Now serves Armadale, Honeyman via Bathville.

New Service 75 - Livingston Sth Station <> Bathgate Railway Station via Livingston Bus Terminal, Almondvale Stadium, St. John's Hospital, Livingston Village, Seafield, Blackburn, Wester Inch, Bathgate Morrisons (Interworks with 73 here.) and Sth Bridge St.

I think the biggest things that need solved are the 72 being hourly and the lack of a route to Livingston Village and one out to Blackridge. The more you look at how busy the 72 in particular is, the more likely it can justify itself as half hourly.

For that reason, much like you’ve suggested, I’d like to see the 73/74 increased to half hourly and with the 73 diverted from Bathgate to Blackridge much like the old 280 did.

An hourly 75 to cover Livingston Village and the connection from Blackburn up to Bathgate would be ideal. This would start at the Centre and also serve Wester Inch.

I think we’ll be doing very well if we get to something like this to be honest.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I think the biggest things that need solved are the 72 being hourly and the lack of a route to Livingston Village and one out to Blackridge. The more you look at how busy the 72 in particular is, the more likely it can justify itself as half hourly.

For that reason, much like you’ve suggested, I’d like to see the 73/74 increased to half hourly and with the 73 diverted from Bathgate to Blackridge much like the old 280 did.

An hourly 75 to cover Livingston Village and the connection from Blackburn up to Bathgate would be ideal. This would start at the Centre and also serve Wester Inch.

I think we’ll be doing very well if we get to something like this to be honest.

Guess we have to wait and see, but given how it's been over a year since LCB took over from McGills and we've have had little to no changes in the local network, except the 72 changing routes in Winchburgh, it's long overdue for them to do something, the people of West Lothian are patient, and deserve something better.

See if the next set of changes come along and LCB have no changes at all, I will be beyond baffled.

 

[stevenedin]

Guess we have to wait and see, but given how it's been over a year since LCB took over from McGills and we've have had little to no changes in the local network, except the 72 changing routes in Winchburgh, it's long overdue for them to do something, the people of West Lothian are patient, and deserve something better.

See if the next set of changes come along and LCB have no changes at all, I will be beyond baffled.

I know what you mean but I have a feeling that much of the issue is a shortage of buses. I looked at the Lothian fleet list on Bus times today and there isn’t many buses spare. It’s even looking like with the new buses arriving they may only have very few left to move elsewhere. I can’t see anything being withdrawn anytime soon until more orders have been delivered.

 

[CSB0241]

I think the 15 needs to be cut to Regent Rd and sent down as limited stop until Fairmilehead, then Easter Bush, U-turn at Gowkley Moss, then Easter Howgate, A702, Mauricewood, then terminates at Penicuik. Mon - Sat daytime.
The 4 needs an hourly extension after Hillend to Straiton - Lang Loan - Gilmerton Station Rd - Ferniehill - terminates at Danderhall.
evenings and Sundays the Fairmilehead - Easter Bush - Mauricewood - Penicuik section can be covered by hourly extension of the 4.

I think the simplest thing to do is to extend the 4 to Bush all the time. The new terminus at Hillend isn’t really a proper terminus and I’ve never seen why it stops there. The 15 could be rerouted to pick up Mauricewood and run onto Penicuik, being increased to half hourly. You could make a valid argument for it returning to be the X15 as well, but stopping at Regent Road.

I think your idea for Lang Loan, Gilmerton Station Road etc is too complicated. A bus from Liberton is better set up to pick this up, likely stopping at Gilmerton Terminus or continuing towards Dalkeith/Eskbank.

At that rate, they should just make the 4 a circular route.

In regards to the Penicuik corridor topic, I think the 15 being extended is the best option. I would have it following the current route to Gowkley Moss, then serve Auchendinny, along passed the high school, turn right and go up the hill on Mauricewood road, left onto Silurian road, then right following the 37 Silverknowes bound through Deanburn, terminate at penucuick town centre, then operating back the main road then up the hill passed Deanburn turning circle then back onto Silurian road. This route isn't ideal, I would've had it so a reverse and go back the same way rather than doing a loop around Penicuik if it were possible to turn around at Penicuik town centre from this direction

This isn't possible until sulurian road opens. The concreate bollards are still in place at the deanburn side stopping any though traffic. (unless they have been removed since last week). There is a possibility for a bus to turn at penicuk town centre the country buses 141 and 140 do it in the other direction at the roundabout at lidl. Terminus could be on penicuik high street on either side of the road.

This whole idea be one for the next set of changes though, looks close to opening up to me.

I thought about having it terminate there but the road is too narrow to have bus sitting there for any length of time

I was gonna propose my own ideas for Penicuik’s bus network here, but I have several ideas for changes that could be made with other operators, so I decided to make it it’s own thread.

 

[SoloSR334022]

Just a question to spark a bit of speculation, what are we all expecting from the upcoming network changes?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Just a question to spark a bit of speculation, what are we all expecting from the upcoming network changes?

From what I understand it will be mainly timetable changes, but would be great to see some route changes thrown in.

Maybe an improvement in the Midlothian network? It's been awhile since Pencuik have had any major changes, and maybe the 15 is due a return further down the road..

It won't happen, but I would like to personally see an improvement for the 20, it feels so underused, they might aswell make it a circular route or extend it to the Gyle, hopefully the 32 gets an improvement as the last few times I've used it it's either shown up late or been a complete no-show.

East Lothian seem to be in a strong place right now, West Lothian needs improvements but I won't hold my breath for changes to come anytime soon.

What does everyone else think?

 

[stevenedin]

Wouldn't expect anything less at this point, haven't been a good service change in years, with a few exceptions.

Replying from the main Lothian Group thread.
Ideally what we want to see is:

-Bus service to serve West Craigs.
-Bus service from Rosewell to Edinburgh City Centre even if its one per hour.
-Direct Bus service from Armadale to Livingston Centre via Livingston Village, Kirkton Campus & Simpson Parkway and Charlesfield Road at peak times.
-It would be nice to have a Livingston Centre - Musselburgh town centre service but can't see that happening.

 

[Avenger20]

Replying from the main Lothian Group thread.
Ideally what we want to see is:

-Bus service to serve West Craigs.
-Bus service from Rosewell to Edinburgh City Centre even if its one per hour.
-Direct Bus service from Armadale to Livingston Centre via Livingston Village, Kirkton Campus & Simpson Parkway and Charlesfield Road at peak times.
-It would be nice to have a Livingston Centre - Musselburgh town centre service but can't see that happening.

On a personal note, one change I would like to see is an improved night service to growing parts of East Lothian.

I live in Wallyford, I work in Edinburgh City Centre and there are no very early morning opportunities. The first 44 departs at 0449 arriving into the City Centre at 0530 which isn't very helpful for those starting at 0500 or earlier.

I've previously suggested to LB that perhaps the N26 could be rerouted between Levenhall and Prestonpans to include Wallyford at The Loan which would require some rejigging of the timetable to fit it in but would deal with the demand with least expenses on resources.

 

[mb88]

It’s a shame the Kirkliston to Livingston Centre section of the 72 is tendered as they could do with cutting it back just to run Winchburgh to Fauldhouse which would help massively with its reliability. In its current form it runs hopelessly late pretty much all day. The small number of people who travel on it between Kirkliston and Broxburn/Uphall/Livingston could use the X19 and change at Winchburgh.

 

[buslad1988]

Replying from the main Lothian Group thread.
Ideally what we want to see is:

-Bus service to serve West Craigs.
-Bus service from Rosewell to Edinburgh City Centre even if its one per hour.
-Direct Bus service from Armadale to Livingston Centre via Livingston Village, Kirkton Campus & Simpson Parkway and Charlesfield Road at peak times.
-It would be nice to have a Livingston Centre - Musselburgh town centre service but can't see that happening.

Livingston Centre to Musselburgh would cater for a very niche market! Not really necessary - nothing wrong with anybody who wants to make such a journey currently taking the 46/48 to ERI then on to an X40.

West Craig’s is being served by the 31 being re-routed. Yes, it’ll take slightly longer to get to/from East Craig’s however in the grand scheme of things really doesn’t make much difference.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Might be most realistic to speculate about service changes that don't require any more buses than are currently in the fleet, seeing as there's not exactly an excess of spare buses currently.