Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

[jb66]

The main problem I see is that the 22 barely even has enough demand to be every 20min, so every 15min is a far stretch. There’s annoyingly not really any easy way to implement a day 22A service without either making the timetables really weird or running buses too frequently (unless they ran both hourly every day with some extra journeys at peak times, but let’s be real, that’s probably a lot more effort than really necessary).


That would make the 70/71 even less reliable than they are now, the 70’s pretty reliable though the 71 is far from.


Fair, though I think it should maybe be half hourly to Winchburgh Campus at the furthest.


I think it should be the other way around, the 73 is much busier than the 74 in my many experiences on them, so I’d say the 74 can run via the current Sunday timetable on all days of the week (with several tweaks of course) then have the 73 do it’s own thing at a half-hourly frequency.


I think the X27 would be a better replacement.


Not a bad idea, basically just a shorter 21.


I’d maybe have it stop at Gorgie City Farm instead of Dalry Primary School & Stewart Terrace.

Thought I’d share more proposals I came up with;

Lothian;
2: extended to Gyle Centre Mon-Sat via Lochside Crescent to aid capacity on service 22 between the Gyle & Balgreen.
5: Service extended to Torphin via Redford & Colinton to reflect customer demand.
9: Service rerouted to Ocean Terminal via Bonnington Road & North Junction Street.
10: Service rerouted via Leith Walk & Great Junction Street to aid capacity on Leith Walk.
15: Service extended to Penicuik Town Centre via Auchendinny.
16: Service curtailed to Oxgangs Library. Service 5 will continue to serve Redford, Colinton, & Torphin.
25: Frequency increased to every 10min Mon-Sat. Most journeys will terminate at Waterloo Place, with buses running to Restalrig every 30min daily & every 40min in the evenings.
30: Frequency reduced to every 15min Mon-Sat & every 20min on Sundays. All off-peak & weekend journeys curtailed to Fort Kinnaird West, with peak journeys running along the A1 to Queen Margaret University.
32: Service curtailed from Balerno to Gyle Centre to improve reliability. Service 70 will continue to provide links between The Gyle & Balerno.
33: Service rerouted from Saughton Mains via Longstone Depot, Hailesland Road, Westside Plaza, & Baberton to Clovenstone Gardens.
34; Weekday journeys will now run via weekend route via Riccarton Mains Road & The Avenue.
35; weekday journeys will run via weekend route off peak. Morning peak journeys to Heriot-Watt & evening peak journeys to Ocean Terminal will run via Riccarton Research Park will run as service 35A.
38: Service curtailed to Western General Hospital due to relatively low passenger usage on Crewe Road North. Service 22 will continue to serve Crewe Road North & Waterfront Broadway.
47B: Service renumbered to service 47A to stay in line with 22A & 35A.
X31: New hourly Mon-Sat daytime service introduced to provide Rosewell with a bus service into Edinburgh.

LothianCountry;
X19: Service reduced to every 60min daily off-peak due to low customer usage. Buses will interwork with new service X20 at Waterloo Place. I know reducing service levels isn’t great for competition, but I think Lothian should prioritise improving other areas in West Lothian.
X20: New service between Halcroft Park & Waterloo Place via Hermiston P&R & Gorgie every 60min daily. Service will interwork with service X19 at Waterloo Place.
X27: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Sat. Service rerouted from Livingston Centre via old 72 route to Whitburn Town Centre, then via West Main Street to Whitburn West End.
X28: Service increased to every 30min Mon-Sat.
70: Service extended from Gyle Centre to Balerno via 32 route, providing weekend services between Balerno & Hermiston Gait/The Gyle. Service curtailed to Halcroft Park in Ratho so that the service doesn’t double over itself at Hermiston P&R.
71: Buses will no longer interwork with service 70 to allow for timetable changes to improve reliability.
72: Service curtailed to Livingston Centre, with service X27 & new 75 replacing western half.
73: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Sat with new hourly Sunday service introduced. Service extended to Armadale from Bathgate via Bathville. Buses will then split to provide an hourly service to Blackridge Mon-Sat, & an hourly service daily to Honeyman Court.
75: New service between Fauldhouse & Bathgate Station via Whitburn, Blackburn, & Wester Inch, running every 60min Mon-Sat.

EastCoastBuses;
X4: Frequency reduced to every hour daily.
X6: Daytime service reintroduced every hour daily. Service rerouted to Haymarket via X4 route. From A1, buses will omit Wallyford, rejoining current route at Dolphinestone Flyover.
124: Service rerouted between Levenhall & Johnny Cope Stone via B1348, Ayres Wynd, Preston Road, & Schaw Road to provide better links between the top & bottom ‘pans.’


PVR changes;
2: 8 > 9
5: 8 > 9
9: Unchanged
10: Unchanged
15: Unchanged
16: 18(?) > 15(?)
25: 17(?) > 15(?)
30: 18(?) > 14
32: 2 > 1
33: Unchanged
34: Unchanged
35/A: Unchanged
38: 8 > 7
47/A: Unchanged
X31: 3 > 5

X19: 5 > ~2
X20: 0 > ~2
X27: 7(?) > 8
X28: 8(?) > 10
70: ~2 > 2
71: ~2 > 2
72: 5 > 3
73: ~2 > 5
74: ~2 > 2
75: 0 > 2

X4: 5 > ~3
X6: 3 > ~3
124: Unchanged

Central: ±0 (+1 SD, -1 DD)
Marine: +1 (+1 DD)
Longstone: -8 (-2 SD, -6 DD)
Livingston: +6 (+6 DD)
Musselburgh: +1 (+1 DD)

As for fleet changes, I’ll leave that up to you guys.

The x19 is completing with the x38, if you make it every 60mins it will still be transporting air as the x38 is more regular.

It must be every 30mins to hit mcgills profits. If anything they should bring back the green arrow Coaches on it!

 

[InOban]

The 5 currently terminates at the Morrisons supermarket which is the only full-size supermarket in that part of Edinburgh (except for the Aldi). I would have thought that many people from Oxgangs must need it.

 

[Siemens Trains]

The 5 currently terminates at the Morrisons supermarket which is the only full-size supermarket in that part of Edinburgh (except for the Aldi). I would have thought that many people from Oxgangs must need it.

Would the Tesco at Colinton Mains be a suitable alternative? A couple of bus routes run through Firrhill.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The 5 currently terminates at the Morrisons supermarket which is the only full-size supermarket in that part of Edinburgh (except for the Aldi). I would have thought that many people from Oxgangs must need it.

I have often thought about swapping the 5 and 16 at the south end, but never really got any further forward with it as it just resulted in too many problems. The 16 to Torphin isn’t ideal, and for me is a bit of a waste of the XLB’s, but it’s the best out of those options.

 

[InOban]

Would the Tesco at Colinton Mains be a suitable alternative? A couple of bus routes run through Firrhill.

It's a while since I regularly went to the area - I see it's much larger.
There is a real problem with bus routes that fizzle out in an area of large expensive houses. I can only imagine that any traffic consists of their domestic staff. Dreghorn itself is army housing of course

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I’d maybe have it stop at Gorgie City Farm instead of Dalry Primary School & Stewart Terrace.

I would of maybe just done Tynecastle and then Caladonian Village with all stops to regent road, at that point it compliments the stopping pattern of the X27/28

9: Service rerouted to Ocean Terminal via Bonnington Road & North Junction Street.

Wasen't the whole point of the 9 to help aid the capacity of the 8 from Granton?

10: Service rerouted via Leith Walk & Great Junction Street to aid capacity on Leith Walk.

I assume if the 9 was re-routed, this would of made more sense.

15: Service extended to Penicuik Town Centre via Auchendinny.

This needs to happen, it's been far too long since the 15 has been out of Penicuik

16: Service curtailed to Oxgangs Library. Service 5 will continue to serve Redford, Colinton, & Torphin.

I would of at least extended this to Hunters Tryst if you were swapping the 5 to Torphin.

25: Frequency increased to every 10min Mon-Sat. Most journeys will terminate at Waterloo Place, with buses running to Restalrig every 30min daily & every 40min in the evenings.

That's quite a jump from what we already have, is the 25 not that popular in the evening down Leith?

30: Frequency reduced to every 15min Mon-Sat & every 20min on Sundays. All off-peak & weekend journeys curtailed to Fort Kinnaird West, with peak journeys running along the A1 to Queen Margaret University.

I would of maybe just cut it back to Fort Kinnaird altogether, or had it run via the A1 to QMU.

32: Service curtailed from Balerno to Gyle Centre to improve reliability. Service 70 will continue to provide links between The Gyle & Balerno.

This sounds like a popular idea it seems

33: Service rerouted from Saughton Mains via Longstone Depot, Hailesland Road, Westside Plaza, & Baberton to Clovenstone Gardens.

So back to the former route pre-2024? i will admit i was surprised they changed the 33 when they did.

34; Weekday journeys will now run via weekend route via Riccarton Mains Road & The Avenue.
35; weekday journeys will run via weekend route off peak. Morning peak journeys to Heriot-Watt & evening peak journeys to Ocean Terminal will run via Riccarton Research Park will run as service 35A.

Gotta feel for the Research Park people, they are really feeling the love here.

38: Service curtailed to Western General Hospital due to relatively low passenger usage on Crewe Road North. Service 22 will continue to serve Crewe Road North & Waterfront Broadway.

Is the 38 really low on numbers between Granton and Western General? i thought it was a popular bus.

X31: New hourly Mon-Sat daytime service introduced to provide Rosewell with a bus service into Edinburgh.

I would of maybe started by extended the Polton Mill 31's to Rosewell and see how the demand was there.

LothianCountry;
X19: Service reduced to every 60min daily off-peak due to low customer usage. Buses will interwork with new service X20 at Waterloo Place. I know reducing service levels isn’t great for competition, but I think Lothian should prioritise improving other areas in West Lothian.

I get what your saying and i do agree, but if they start reducing the X19 they would be aswell as throwing in the towel for that route.

X20: New service between Halcroft Park & Waterloo Place via Hermiston P&R & Gorgie every 60min daily. Service will interwork with service X19 at Waterloo Place.

Without the interworking, this is a good idea.

X27: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Sat. Service rerouted from Livingston Centre via old 72 route to Whitburn Town Centre, then via West Main Street to Whitburn West End.

X28: Service increased to every 30min Mon-Sat.

Back to the glory days of the old LCB network

70: Service extended from Gyle Centre to Balerno via 32 route, providing weekend services between Balerno & Hermiston Gait/The Gyle. Service curtailed to Halcroft Park in Ratho so that the service doesn’t double over itself at Hermiston P&R.

Again, Deja Vu here

71: Buses will no longer interwork with service 70 to allow for timetable changes to improve reliability.

Well, the 71 needs improving to say the least, so i can't say i disagree here.

72: Service curtailed to Livingston Centre, with service X27 & new 75 replacing western half.

Makes it more reliable to say the least.

73: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Sat with new hourly Sunday service introduced. Service extended to Armadale from Bathgate via Bathville. Buses will then split to provide an hourly service to Blackridge Mon-Sat, & an hourly service daily to Honeyman Court.

Livingston gets a service to Armadale, everyone wins.

75: New service between Fauldhouse & Bathgate Station via Whitburn, Blackburn, & Wester Inch, running every 60min Mon-Sat.

I assume this will cover the missing section between Whitburn and Fauldhouse on the 72? good idea!

EastCoastBuses;
X4: Frequency reduced to every hour daily.

Bet the Tranent uses will love this.

X6: Daytime service reintroduced every hour daily. Service rerouted to Haymarket via X4 route. From A1, buses will omit Wallyford, rejoining current route at Dolphinestone Flyover.

Will it still serve Fort Kinnaird?

124: Service rerouted between Levenhall & Johnny Cope Stone via B1348, Ayres Wynd, Preston Road, & Schaw Road to provide better links between the top & bottom ‘pans.’

Good idea in execution but doubt it will happen!

 

[CSB0241]

The 5 currently terminates at the Morrisons supermarket which is the only full-size supermarket in that part of Edinburgh (except for the Aldi). I would have thought that many people from Oxgangs must need it.

There is also the Tesco, that’s also a pretty big full sized supermarket.

I have often thought about swapping the 5 and 16 at the south end, but never really got any further forward with it as it just resulted in too many problems. The 16 to Torphin isn’t ideal, and for me is a bit of a waste of the XLB’s, but it’s the best out of those options.

I think swapping the 5 & 16 at least makes more sense than swapping the 10 & 16, getting an XLB through Bonaly ought to be a death trap waiting to happen.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

There is also the Tesco, that’s also a pretty big full sized supermarket.

But there is also the housing up at Swanston too? Honestly I think as long as you don't withdraw from the area it should be good.

I think swapping the 5 & 16 at least makes more sense than swapping the 10 & 16, getting an XLB through Bonaly ought to be a death trap waiting to happen.

I think the 16 ran up to Bonaly once when Torphin was closed, I think it is possible but just rare to see!

 

[CSB0241]

Found one of my old posts from the previous speculation/ideas thread, thought I’d review it two years on to see how different my opinions are now;

I’ve seen several people on this site talking about how they think that Edinburgh’s main operator, Lothian Buses, are trying to move into a new era for the new decade (after the sudden withdrawals of the 42 & 300 on the 11th of September, the latter of which had a slow painful death after being reintroduced after COVID-19, & the 41 on the 28th of May this year).

As for me personally, I think a “cool” change Lothian could do is divide the 38 into 2 routes;

Service 38; Greendykes - RIE - Cameron Toll - Blackford - Morningside - Shandon - Gorgie - Saughton Mains - Longstone - Murrayburn Road - Westside Plaza
Service 40; West Granton - Crewe Toll - Craigleith - Murrayfield - Balgreen - Stenhouse Cross - Longstone - Kingsknowe - Colinton

First of all, I don’t entirely get why I did 38/40 instead of 38/39. I guess it’s because I already had a proposal for a 39 I was workshopping at the time but I can’t remember it for the life of me.

Other than that, I think it’d be a good way to diversify bus links around the general south of the city. As I have stated a couple times on this forum, I have some close family & friends scattered around the general Grange/Blackford area, & one of my relatives was talking to me shortly after the 41 was withdrawn about how she thought it was ridiculous that she could get any of the buses in Blackford to West Granton, yet to get somewhere closer like, say, Craigmillar, she’d have to get a bus to Cameron Toll & swap onto a 12, & I pointed it out to one of my mates who stayed in the area more recently & he said that he thought it was absurd (despite the fact he doesn’t really care for buses). It’s definitely far from what I think Lothian should be prioritising (the 9, 24, & 38 all take fairly different routes so who cares if they all end up in the same place 45-60min later), though it is still maybe something to think about.

Additionally, the new 40 (or as I’m just going to refer to it as from now on, the 39) would provide both Colinton & Kingsknowe with links to areas they couldn’t easily get to before (such as Saughton or the Western General), along with providing a quicker link to Granton than the 16 would (even if it’s a niche trip to make).

Admittedly though, this certainly isn’t without it’s flaws. I use the tram a lot in West Edinburgh, & the 38 is my local bus route, so this’d make getting the tram without serving the city centre pretty irritating.

Additionally, if we’re to assume the 39 would probably replace the 20 (since 3 buses per hour in either direction through Kingsknowe is overkill), would locals in Kingsknowe really benefit from this? Sure they get a service every half hour instead of hourly, but the easy link they have to both the Westside Plaza & Chesser Asda would be gone in favour of a bus to places like Saughton & Murrayfield, & let’s be honest, buses are for the sake of the passengers, not for enthusiasts to twiddle their fingers at hyper analysing, & I doubt anyone in Kingsknowe would think “oh yes, I’m perfectly fine with my bus to the nearest large supermarkets & shopping centre beinh replaced with a bus service to a retail park on the other side of the city.”

And thus, I have made adjustments;
38; The Jewel - ERI - King’s Buildings - Merchiston - Balgreen - Edinburgh Zoo - Clermiston
39; West Granton - Western General - Ravelston - Balgreen - Stenhouse - Baberton

These would let the following happen;
- Provides a bus to the houses off of Clermiston Road so that residents don’t have to walk up the steep hill from the shops in Corstorphine.
- Allows passengers to easily exchange between services 38/39 at Balgreen for through journeys between, say, Gorgie & Craigleith.
- Doesn’t lead to Kingsknowe being “overserved” by bus routes.
- Provides south Edinburgh with more “diverse” bus links.
- Doesn’t mean buses have to terminate at the already small bus bays at the Westside Plaza.

My main question now is; would there be enough demand for the 39 to be half-hourly? I have taken the 38 north of Gorgie many a time but it’s never particularly busy, even at rush hour there aren’t many people at the Western General who use it to commute, so would it be better off being hourly instead?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Found one of my old posts from the previous speculation/ideas thread, thought I’d review it two years on to see how different my opinions are now;


First of all, I don’t entirely get why I did 38/40 instead of 38/39. I guess it’s because I already had a proposal for a 39 I was workshopping at the time but I can’t remember it for the life of me.

Other than that, I think it’d be a good way to diversify bus links around the general south of the city. As I have stated a couple times on this forum, I have some close family & friends scattered around the general Grange/Blackford area, & one of my relatives was talking to me shortly after the 41 was withdrawn about how she thought it was ridiculous that she could get any of the buses in Blackford to West Granton, yet to get somewhere closer like, say, Craigmillar, she’d have to get a bus to Cameron Toll & swap onto a 12, & I pointed it out to one of my mates who stayed in the area more recently & he said that he thought it was absurd (despite the fact he doesn’t really care for buses). It’s definitely far from what I think Lothian should be prioritising (the 9, 24, & 38 all take fairly different routes so who cares if they all end up in the same place 45-60min later), though it is still maybe something to think about.

Additionally, the new 40 (or as I’m just going to refer to it as from now on, the 39) would provide both Colinton & Kingsknowe with links to areas they couldn’t easily get to before (such as Saughton or the Western General), along with providing a quicker link to Granton than the 16 would (even if it’s a niche trip to make).

Admittedly though, this certainly isn’t without it’s flaws. I use the tram a lot in West Edinburgh, & the 38 is my local bus route, so this’d make getting the tram without serving the city centre pretty irritating.

Additionally, if we’re to assume the 39 would probably replace the 20 (since 3 buses per hour in either direction through Kingsknowe is overkill), would locals in Kingsknowe really benefit from this? Sure they get a service every half hour instead of hourly, but the easy link they have to both the Westside Plaza & Chesser Asda would be gone in favour of a bus to places like Saughton & Murrayfield, & let’s be honest, buses are for the sake of the passengers, not for enthusiasts to twiddle their fingers at hyper analysing, & I doubt anyone in Kingsknowe would think “oh yes, I’m perfectly fine with my bus to the nearest large supermarkets & shopping centre beinh replaced with a bus service to a retail park on the other side of the city.”

And thus, I have made adjustments;
38; The Jewel - ERI - King’s Buildings - Merchiston - Balgreen - Edinburgh Zoo - Clermiston
39; West Granton - Western General - Ravelston - Balgreen - Stenhouse - Baberton

These would let the following happen;
- Provides a bus to the houses off of Clermiston Road so that residents don’t have to walk up the steep hill from the shops in Corstorphine.
- Allows passengers to easily exchange between services 38/39 at Balgreen for through journeys between, say, Gorgie & Craigleith.
- Doesn’t lead to Kingsknowe being “overserved” by bus routes.
- Provides south Edinburgh with more “diverse” bus links.
- Doesn’t mean buses have to terminate at the already small bus bays at the Westside Plaza.

My main question now is; would there be enough demand for the 39 to be half-hourly? I have taken the 38 north of Gorgie many a time but it’s never particularly busy, even at rush hour there aren’t many people at the Western General who use it to commute, so would it be better off being hourly instead?

This is a terrible idea. The 38 is fine at it is. It’s solving problems that don’t exist. The 38 is a local bus for local uses. Nobody is expected to go the full route on it. It’s designed to connect the suburbs to key points in the city such as schools, shops and hospitals.

Contrary to what you may think, the northern end of the route is busy. Probably not as much as the southern section, but is it quiet? No.

Note the 9 and 38 barely overlap as well, so the argument of them duplicating connections is rather flawed. The 9 and 24 you could make a slightly more accurate argument for, and even the 24 and 38 but ultimately it’s the links in between that means those routes are the way they are. They simply have similar start and end points but are totally different in the middle.

 

[exeter 50044]

This is my thoughts on west lothian services

Service 43 no change

Service 70 merge with service 20 and transfer to longstone as service 20

Service 71 renumber to 63 and transfer to longstone both services with lothian city

New service X17 as with x18 from uphall uphall station pumpherston ladywell west road st johns hospital livingston civic center livingston center polbeth west calder addiewell stonyburn bents faldhouse.
To run in conjuction with service x18
Every 30 mins

Service X18 no change

Service X19 no change

Service X27 from mid calder muriston livingston south railway station deadrige west livingston centre houston south st johns hospital eliburn seafeild blackburn east whithburn cross whithburn west end.
Runs every 30 minutes

Service X28 no route change but now runs every 30 minutes in conjuction with x27

Service X40 no change

New service 70 livingston - armadale/blackridge

Livingston centre st johns hospital livingston north railway station deans south deans indusrial estate tescos bathgate fire station bathgate railway station bathgate south bridge street faleside uperbathvile armadale cross armadale honeyman court armadale acadamy blackridge

Runs every 30 minutes between livingston -armadale 60 minutes to blackridge

New service 71 livingston - faludhouse

Livingston centre houston south st johns hospital livingston village seafield blackburn bathgate railway station bathgate south bridge street birnehill m8 junction 4 east whitburn whitburn cross longridge faludhoues

Runs every 30 minutes

Service 72 cut back to livingston centre and runs every 30 minutes

Service 73 livingston - bathgate railway station

Livingston centre kirkton south kirkton campus seafield blackburn bathgate leyland road bathgate morrisons bathgate south bridge street bathgate railway staion

Runs every 60 minutes with additional peak journeys

N18 route change runs via kirkliston winchbourgh then broxburn

N28 route change runs via ratho

N43 cut back to south queensferry

 

[TheEastCoaster]

This is my thoughts on west lothian services

Service 70 merge with service 20 and transfer to longstone as service 20

Service 71 renumber to 63 and transfer to longstone both services with lothian city

I would leave the 70/71 as they are under the Lothian Country brand personally.

New service X17 as with x18 from uphall uphall station pumpherston ladywell west road st johns hospital livingston civic center livingston center polbeth west calder addiewell stonyburn bents faldhouse.
To run in conjuction with service x18
Every 30 mins

So just the old X17 from 2019? i'm sure it was withdrawn because it wasen't doing well, otherwise i'm sure they would of brought it back by now.

New service 70 livingston - armadale/blackridge

Livingston centre st johns hospital livingston north railway station deans south deans indusrial estate tescos bathgate fire station bathgate railway station bathgate south bridge street faleside uperbathvile armadale cross armadale honeyman court armadale acadamy blackridge

So the old 280?

New service 71 livingston - faludhouse

Livingston centre houston south st johns hospital livingston village seafield blackburn bathgate railway station bathgate south bridge street birnehill m8 junction 4 east whitburn whitburn cross longridge faludhoues

Runs every 30 minutes

Service 72 cut back to livingston centre and runs every 30 minutes

I would agree that the 72 needs to be split, it's too long to be reliable.

N18 route change runs via kirkliston winchbourgh then broxburn

Unless the N18 starts running on weekdays again, i can't see them doing this.

N28 route change runs via ratho

I could potentially se ethis.

N43 cut back to south queensferry

Only if the N18 was running on a weekday.

 

[mb88]

I get why people think the X27 should revert back to its previous route between Livingston and Whitburn, however you’d need something else to replace it through Craigshill, Ladywell and Knightsridge. Two buses per hour on an X28 is nowhere near enough for the demand on this section. If anything, it could do with going to four buses per hour.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I get why people think the X27 should revert back to its previous route between Livingston and Whitburn, however you’d need something else to replace it through Craigshill, Ladywell and Knightsridge. Two buses per hour on an X28 is nowhere near enough for the demand on this section. If anything, it could do with going to four buses per hour.

Definitely needs adjusted. The pre-covid X27 and X28 would be nice to have back.

A local half hourly 74 between Deans and Fauldhouse would be nice, much like the old 281. This would fix the problems of the busy part of the X28.

The 72 could then run Bathgate to Broxburn (Kirkliston hourly) via Wester Inch and Livingston Village, just like the old 275. The 73 could then be like the old 280 Livingston to Blackridge.

Boring yes but it would work. I would still like to see the Birniehill and J4 corridor filled too. That’s probably harder to do. 75 Bathgate to Fauldhouse?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Definitely needs adjusted. The pre-covid X27 and X28 would be nice to have back.

A local half hourly 74 between Deans and Fauldhouse would be nice, much like the old 281. This would fix the problems of the busy part of the X28.

The 72 could then run Bathgate to Broxburn (Kirkliston hourly) via Wester Inch and Livingston Village, just like the old 275. The 73 could then be like the old 280 Livingston to Blackridge.

This seems like a logical step forward, like I said splitting the 72 would make it more reliable, even running it via the X28 route in Craigshill before turning it into Pumpherston, then take the X27 via Whitburn pre-covid route and even down to Fauldhouse to save resources on another new service.

The 73 could run via Livingston Village, Wester Inch, Bathgate and then onto Armadale and Blackridge.

The X28 could run once an hour via Deans South? unless an extension of the 74 could come to mind like the old 281.

Just a few tweaks and an improved frequency and I feel it could make the network much better.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

This seems like a logical step forward, like I said splitting the 72 would make it more reliable, even running it via the X28 route in Craigshill before turning it into Pumpherston, then take the X27 via Whitburn pre-covid route and even down to Fauldhouse to save resources on another new service.

The 73 could run via Livingston Village, Wester Inch, Bathgate and then onto Armadale and Blackridge.

I think there’s a necessity to maintain a fast Deans to Livingston Centre bus, indeed that is what the 73 does at the moment. That would also solve your Deans South issue.

This is why I suggested the 72 could go that other way instead with the 73 staying as is in that regard. To be honest the 72 would probably suffice as hourly as an extension from Livingston Village to Bathgate Station but whether or not the timetable allows it I’m not sure. Either of full route all day or a part extension wouldn’t be a disaster though. The crucial part of the 73 is to reroute/extend it from Bathgate via Lower Bathville to Blackridge. The 72 simply plugs the gap through Blackburn and Wester Inch whilst also restoring a service to Livingston Village. The X27 would serve Eliburn.

The 72 wouldn’t need to serve Howden as the pre-covid X27 did that instead. The X27 did not serve Craigshill when it went to Whitburn. That’s why the 72 can just go directly from Pumpherston to Craigshill via Grange Road then Livingston Centre, sort of what you said. Indeed it would have to serve St John’s on the western side instead rather than bypass it as it’s the only time it would go near it now.

I would just turn the 74 at Carmondean Centre in this plan to be honest. You’ll still need vans for changeovers anyway and Deans North and South already each have a half hourly service in said plan. Having it go any further I think complicates it a little.

The 75 is really a gap filler and would probably be interworked with the 74, and yes that is practically a restoration of the old 26, just split at Fauldhouse.

 

[LothianLover88]

I think the X27/8 warrant an increase to an every 30 minute service, I know a few people living in Kirknewton and they struggle with an every 40 minute unreliable service. Is this a popular opinion?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It's been almost 3 months since the last service change, i'm not sure how much East Lothian has benefited the past few months, haven't heard anyone uproar about the X6 in awhile, but i was thinking of how the network could be improved.

EAST COAST BUSES NETWORK CHANGE

X4 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Route in Prestonpans, buses now run via Prestonpans Railway Station to improve running times, Buses now extend from Tranent Windygoul to Elphinstone (Durie's Park) providing a direct link from Elphinstone to Edinburgh, increased frequency on Sundays to every 30 minutes during the day.

X5 - Revised Timetable
New Sunday Service Introduced running between 0900 and 1800, on Monday to Saturdays, the final journey from North Berwick is at 1750, and the final journey from Edinburgh is at 1930

X6 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Terminus in Edinburgh, buses now terminate in Haymarket, Western General now served by 113. Buses now run during the day pre April 2025 to improve services in Macmerry and Glasdmuir, buses will continue to serve Fort Kinnaird.

X7 - Revised Timetable
Revised Timetable, Additional peak runs to Haddington from Edinburgh to maintain demand.

106 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Route, buses no longer serve Haddington Road and A199 and instead run via the B1348 to Prestonpans copying the 26 route to Tranent pre April 2025 before carrying on it's original route to Haddington, providing Haddington with a link to Prestonpans, and connecting Lower Prestonpans with Tranent, Haddingotn Road and the A199 will continue to be served by the 107 & 113, Additional journeys will be added in the evenings with the last journey from Fort Kinnaird to Hadington running at 2134, and a journey from Musselburgh High Street to Haddington starting at 22:48, this change will also include an improved Sunday service.

107 - Revised Timetable
Revised Timetable, on Monday to Sundar buses now run all day between Dunbar and Musselburgh hourly on a temporary trial basis to test demand, Buses will now start at Musselburgh Tesco and the last journey from Musselburgh will be at 22:06, between Haddington and Tranent buses will co-ordinate between the 106 to provide a 30 minute frequency.

113 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Route in Edinburgh, buses will now terminate at Western General as pre April 2025, the limited stops within Edinburgh have now been withdrawn to help residents travelling to the Western General to be able to pick up at any stop.

120 - No Changes

121 - Revised Timetable
Revised Timetable, frequency is now increased to every 60 minutes to help interchanging with the 123

123 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Route, the circle route has now been abolished, so services will now run direct from Haddington High Street to Pencaitland (Pencaitland Park) and return via the same route, buses will run direct from Haddington to Gifford, East Saulton, West Saulton and Glenkinchie on a 60 minute frequency Monday to Sunday, Gifford as a result is now been moved to Zone D to provide Haddington with a cheaper single fare for Gifford and East Saulton.

124- Revised Terminus and Timetable
Revised Route, buses now drop off and pick up on both Bread Street and East Fountainbridge respectivally, the limited stops within Edinburgh have now been withdrawn to match with the 113.

139/140/141 - Cheaper Fares for Midlothian (Midlothian is now under Zone B, giving residents a change to buy a Country Dayticket within our sevices and travel into East Lothian for much cheaper)

139 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Route, buses now extend beyond Midlothian Community Hospital to Gore Avenue via Bonnyrigg, Cockpen, and Newtongrange to provide better links for Residents within Midlothian.

140 - Revised Timetable
Timetable revised to work with improved 141, Sunday buses now extend to Penicuik.

141 - Revised Route and Timetable
Buses now run via Auchindinny, later evening timetables to provide an evening 30 minute frequeny throughout the route along with service 140.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

X4 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Route in Prestonpans, buses now run via Prestonpans Railway Station to improve running times, Buses now extend from Tranent Windygoul to Elphinstone (Durie's Park) providing a direct link from Elphinstone to Edinburgh, increased frequency on Sundays to every 30 minutes during the day.

Having been in Elphinstone many times with the Prentice fleet, especially at later times with cars, you’re not getting an 11.5 metre bus round there easily.

X6 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Terminus in Edinburgh, buses now terminate in Haymarket, Western General now served by 113. Buses now run during the day pre April 2025 to improve services in Macmerry and Glasdmuir, buses will continue to serve Fort Kinnaird.

The reason it was cut is because it simply wasn’t used. Between Macmerry and Gladsmuir, very very low passenger use. Can’t remember the figures on the top of my head but it was obscene!

113 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Route in Edinburgh, buses will now terminate at Western General as pre April 2025, the limited stops within Edinburgh have now been withdrawn to help residents travelling to the Western General to be able to pick up at any stop.

Requires an extra bus which isn’t feasible. Very weak passenger use where there wasn’t alternatives and made the service less reliable.

123 - Revised Route and Timetable
Revised Route, the circle route has now been abolished, so services will now run direct from Haddington High Street to Pencaitland (Pencaitland Park) and return via the same route, buses will run direct from Haddington to Gifford, East Saulton, West Saulton and Glenkinchie on a 60 minute frequency Monday to Sunday, Gifford as a result is now been moved to Zone D to provide Haddington with a cheaper single fare for Gifford and East Saulton.

Bolton is part of the tender as well as part of Haddington losing a bus service. Wouldn’t be popular nor would ELC be likely to accept it.

the limited stops within Edinburgh have now been withdrawn to match with the 113.

113/124 losing their limited stops? If anything I’d be making them pick up and drop off only!!

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The reason it was cut is because it simply wasn’t used. Between Macmerry and Gladsmuir, very very low passenger use. Can’t remember the figures on the top of my head but it was obscene!

So the uproar that the service was cut is unjustified? honesty cut or no cut, it feels like ECB can never win.

Bolton is part of the tender as well as part of Haddington losing a bus service. Wouldn’t be popular nor would ELC be likely to accept it.

That's a fair point

113/124 losing their limited stops? If anything I’d be making them pick up and drop off only!!

Personally, and i'm probably a minority in this factor, but i don't think every east lothian bus needs to be limited stop in Edinburgh, we have about 4 express services via the A1, and two via brunstane and musselburgh, i think when they took the 124 out of Portobello and removed a majority of the Edinburgh stops on that and the 113 it was a step in the wrong direction, i mean i do get it for faster running times, but they are other options from East Lothian for a faster service.

 

[Acfb]

I completely understand why they cut the X6 to Edinburgh due to lack of demand on the Tranent-Haddington section but the X4 really does seem completely pointless to me as the 113 probably takes the same time from Tranent to Edinburgh and the 124 provides a good service through the top of Prestonpans. I don't know what usage is like on the X4 most of the time but I rode it in April on a Saturday afternoon from the Jewel to Prestonpans and then back to Edinburgh because I wanted to visit the Bankton doocot and there was very few people on it both ways. I know part of the reasoning was to increase the service past Blindwells South but it's a mess.

Tranent, Ormiston and Pencaitland really need the same sort of limited service bus that the X6 previously provided IMO.

Also they should make the X5 every 30 minutes between Blindswells South and Edinburgh IMO.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

So the uproar that the service was cut is unjustified? honesty cut or no cut, it feels like ECB can never win.

As unfortunate as it is, yes. Use it or lose it.

Personally, and i'm probably a minority in this factor, but i don't think every east lothian bus needs to be limited stop in Edinburgh, we have about 4 express services via the A1, and two via brunstane and musselburgh, i think when they took the 124 out of Portobello and removed a majority of the Edinburgh stops on that and the 113 it was a step in the wrong direction, i mean i do get it for faster running times, but they are other options from East Lothian for a faster service.

It's also for reliability. Longer running times not as good for drivers either as it could result in shorter breaks, either that or and an additional bus on the PVR. The 113 is the fastest bus from Tranent to Edinburgh for example, so increasing the running time doesn't benefit the passenger or the company. The 44 is a very frequent service and uses this stretch as well!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The X4 in its current form is very flawed. It’s an express bus but it’s as fast as the local bus? Makes no sense. If it’s changed to go direct from Tranent to Wallyford then fine.

To make this work I’d also suggest changing a little bit of Prentice’s stuff. Scrapping the 115 and having an enhanced half hourly 110 between Tranent and Prestonpans - hourly extensions to Elphinstone. In time with houses this will justify itself as a half hourly full route down to Elphinstone.

Back to ECB. The confusing setup in Tranent with one one way loops and certain journeys going to Castle Road. I disagree slightly with @LothianBusesPh on Elphinstone. Perhaps yes not all the time, but the Castle Road extensions should be going to Elphinstone. The dead run back to Windygoul terminus means it has to go round past the research centre anyway so is practically there.

The X6 though absolutely was done and had been for years. Apart from changing it to start at Haymarket and possibly trying Amisfield Park in Haddington again, I don’t think there’s much else worth doing.

No point increasing the 106 as Prentice combine that corridor already to make it half hourly with their 108. There are some confusing set ups on the 106 in the peaks though with buses coming off/going on from other routes which for me need addressed.

I do think the 113 does need to return to the Western General however and I don’t think the 113 is any worse off for having a 7th bus on it.

Apart from that ECB is generally fine. The X4 is sped up and the local links are dealt with.

Don’t get me started on the 107. Why these are not just extended 106’s like they used to be I don’t know. Ideally more X7 runs need to be Dunbar based to stop Marine based ECB runs on other routes.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The X4 in its current form is very flawed. It’s an express bus but it’s as fast as the local bus? Makes no sense. If it’s changed to go direct from Tranent to Wallyford then fine.

The problem is that this is absolutly correct, the 26 before the change worked fine, i'm guessing they were looking for an out for ages so that Tranent could exclusivly be East Coast territory, even though at the end of the day it really dosen't matter since its all under the same fare zone as the city fleet, i know folk made the same arguement with the 43, but whatever.

The X6 does just that though, except not going to Windygoul, so it begs the question as to why it was stripped down, if one part of the route was not as popular than sure as i've learnt, but Tranent seems to be a popular market, and i'm sure folk wanting Edinburgh travel favoured it over the 26/113

The confusing setup in Tranent with one one way loops and certain journeys going to Castle Road. I disagree slightly with @LothianBusesPh on Elphinstone. Perhaps yes not all the time, but the Castle Road extensions should be going to Elphinstone. The dead run back to Windygoul terminus means it has to go round past the research centre anyway so is practically there.

It's like with the 44 extensions to Whitecraig, it wouldn't do that much harm to have them extended a little further down the road and test to see if there is a market.

The X6 though absolutely was done and had been for years. Apart from changing it to start at Haymarket and possibly trying Amisfield Park in Haddington again, I don’t think there’s much else worth doing.

I forgot that it served Amisfield Park at one point, the 104/x6 clearly has been through so much in 11 years, it really opens my eyes a little bit.

No point increasing the 106 as Prentice combine that corridor already to make it half hourly with their 108. There are some confusing set ups on the 106 in the peaks though with buses coming off/going on from other routes which for me need addressed.

Besides a few alternitives like the 106 running via the A1 and QMU, if it dosen't matter to folk than at least the services are there, at this point Lothian and Prentice should just work together and combine to make an alternative service.

I do think the 113 does need to return to the Western General however and I don’t think the 113 is any worse off for having a 7th bus on it.

Agreed, i'm sure the whole reason for the 113 was for the Hospital link, and without it it seems.. empty.

Apart from that ECB is generally fine. The X4 is sped up and the local links are dealt with.

I'd like to think the X4 will get improved upon over time, but i still think they would be better bringing the X6 back full time.

Don’t get me started on the 107. Why these are not just extended 106’s like they used to be I don’t know. Ideally more X7 runs need to be Dunbar based to stop Marine based ECB runs on other routes.

I guess they wanted to make it more simple this way having two seperate routes, so folk will know the 107 is just Dunbar- Muselburgh? i don't seem to mind it to be fair, although i do miss when the 106 used to run Dunbar - Fort Kinnaird very briefly, that was a long journey that i really enjoyed one summer!

 

[LothianBusesPh]

It's like with the 44 extensions to Whitecraig, it wouldn't do that much harm to have them extended a little further down the road and test to see if there is a market.

There's no way you're getting a double decker going the 110 route round Elphinstone. Best I can see is giving Elphinstone Research Centre a service which would be good for growth as it had the 110 cut from the last service change. Prentice Enviro200s can't get round sometimes, so have to do a U-Turn just before the bus stop, particularly in later hours!

 

[mb88]

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1Cb87J69xj/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Bus users in Livingston Village may have some positive news in the near future after it was confirmed that council officers have been working with the commercial operators for several months regarding enhancing bus services in the area.

Leader of West Lothian Council, Lawrence Fitzpatrick informed Council Executive this morning that “a commercial operator is at a fairly advanced planning stage to enhance the commercial bus service in Livingston Village.”

He added: “Officers are not in a position to confirm anything as yet but some positive news is expected and can be shared soon. That is very positive news.”

Several community members spoke at Council Executive this morning following a local Petition for Restoration of Bus Service in Livingston Village.

Councillor Fitzpatrick said: “Thank you for those that attended today. I have a great deal of sympathy with any community that feels that they are deprived of a bus service that meets their needs. Councils do not have any authority over the commercial market or operations, nor do we have a role in regulating the commercial bus network, which represents around 80% of bus journeys in West Lothian. The Transport Act 1985 deregulated bus services in the UK, moving from council-run buses to an open commercial market.

“Provided a commercial operator registers a service with the Office of the Traffic Commissioner they can operate any route they wish, to any timetable.
“The council has maintained the budget available to help subsidise some bus services locally but that budget is limited and can only go so far. These subsidised services were designed to complement the commercial network and provide vital links to communities otherwise not served with public transport.
“We’d love to help subsidise more services but, over the past fifteen years, our levels of funding have been significantly reduced. No additional money has been received, or offered, by either the UK or Scottish Government to fund more subsidised bus services in West Lothian, so the council does the best it can to help. However councils are not able to solve the issues within the commercial bus network, overall.

“That said, council officers have been working with the commercial operators for several months and I have been advised this morning that a commercial operator is in the advanced planning stage to enhance the commercial bus service in Livingston Village. I hope that is welcomed by local residents.” Livingston Village Community Council

Be interesting to see what this entails, whether it be Lothian Country or another operator providing it. An amendment to an existing service or a totally new one?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1Cb87J69xj/?mibextid=wwXIfr


Be interesting to see what this entails, whether it be Lothian Country or another operator providing it. An amendment to an existing service or a totally new one?

Surely this is suggestion of a Lothian Country review?

73 to Blackridge perhaps? Then 72 via Livingston Village, Blackburn and Wester Inch to Bathgate maybe?

Leaves room for rerouted X27 to Whitburn as per pre covid routing? Then 74 extension to Deans to boost the frequency of the X28 section between Deans and Livingston Centre.

Few frequency increases needed to make it work. Say 74 half hourly Deans to Loganlea and 73 half hourly in full? That to me is limited resources. No new route at all.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Surely this is suggestion of a Lothian Country review?

73 to Blackridge perhaps? Then 72 via Livingston Village, Blackburn and Wester Inch to Bathgate maybe?

Leaves room for rerouted X27 to Whitburn as per pre covid routing? Then 74 extension to Deans to boost the frequency of the X28 section between Deans and Livingston Centre.

Few frequency increases needed to make it work. Say 74 half hourly Deans to Loganlea and 73 half hourly in full? That to me is limited resources. No new route at all.

I would hope so, the X27/X28 could do with a frequency increase to at least every 15 mimutes going to every 12 at peak times, the times I use them they are always busy.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I would hope so, the X27/X28 could do with a frequency increase to at least every 15 mimutes going to every 12 at peak times, the times I use them they are always busy.

I think they’ve captured the Calderwood market brilliantly. I wouldn’t say increase the peak frequency, rather introduce extra peak shorts? Though combined every 15 minutes off peak would be necessary for my suggestion.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Surely this is suggestion of a Lothian Country review?

73 to Blackridge perhaps? Then 72 via Livingston Village, Blackburn and Wester Inch to Bathgate maybe?

Leaves room for rerouted X27 to Whitburn as per pre covid routing? Then 74 extension to Deans to boost the frequency of the X28 section between Deans and Livingston Centre.

Few frequency increases needed to make it work. Say 74 half hourly Deans to Loganlea and 73 half hourly in full? That to me is limited resources. No new route at all.

I can envision it hoping for something exciting, only for it to be something minor on the city services and no changes on the local services..

Honestly, it's not even excuseable anymore, its been almost a year and a half since Lothian stepped in for McGills, it's about time they change up the local services and hopefully improve them for the better, i'm guessing they must be viable to some degree if they haven't been touched in so long, but viable as in that's the only option the residents have.

Maybe we can see something this autumn? maybe?