Low floor Aventra

[Bletchleyite]

I read on Twitter/X earlier on (unlikely to find the Tweet now to quote) that now the main Aventra orders are all complete Alstom has a low-floor EMU design in the works, so other than the Class 345 add-on order there will be no more high floor Aventras.

Does anyone know if this is true? Positive if so.

 

[pelli]

I read on Twitter/X earlier on (unlikely to find the Tweet now to quote)

I searched Twitter for "Aventra", selecting "Latest", (also tried "Alstom" together with "level", "high" and "low") and the only potentially relevant tweets ("Xs"?) I could see from this month are in one thread (which I suspect you've seen already):

Chris Ogilvie @Ogilvie_CJ · Dec 6
“Alstom UK boss: Give clarity over Derby plant future or 'it all goes'
A lack of new rolling stock orders and the decision to axe the northern leg of #HS2 has plunged the site into chaos, and its closure is not off the cards.”

Neil Williams @pacer142 · Dec 6
I'd argue that what has thrown them into chaos is building unreliable rubbish, like the *still* non-functional 701s. Plus the bad decision to only offer an EMU rather than that and a bi-mode and DMU.

What actually is wrong with those again?

Owen O'Neill @owenoo · Dec 7
also not offering anything with level boarding - another very good reason why Stadler have won a bunch of recent orders.

James S Welling @SpeedySticks007 · Dec 7
I'm currently drinking a Baileys in celebration of the demise of last high floor Alstom UK product. Although Elizabeth line may require a few more, ironically it goes from the first Alstom Aventra to the last Aventra to be built. A level boarding range is on way from Alstom.

James S Welling @SpeedySticks007 · Dec 8
Which train was built at Derby? It would be desperately sad for the work force in Derby and the supply chain, but would be very Happy if Alstom brought their X'Trapolis or Stream level boarding platforms to the UK.

 

[Energy]

I read on Twitter/X earlier on (unlikely to find the Tweet now to quote) that now the main Aventra orders are all complete Alstom has a low-floor EMU design in the works, so other than the Class 345 add-on order there will be no more high floor Aventras.

Does anyone know if this is true? Positive if so.

Unsuprising, the reduced staff needs of level boarding will be popular with the DfT and not having to book assistance is great for disabled people.

IIRC it's required on the Northern and Scotrail new orders.

I suspect Alstom will want a platform more in common with its European variants.

The Aventra was a bog standard EMU with lightweight bogeys and available in whatever length and door configuration you'd like. It's not bad (software aside), it just isn't exceptional or a great loss.

What's more interesting is what did Alstom spend all the money on Bombardier for?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's the Tweet next to bottom that I was referring to, yes.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Neil Williams @pacer142 · Dec 6
I'd argue that what has thrown them into chaos is building unreliable rubbish, like the *still* non-functional 701s. Plus the bad decision to only offer an EMU rather than that and a bi-mode and DMU.

But they did offer a bi-mode Aventra - it just hasn't been ordered by anyone (yet) as far as we know.

The Aventra was a bog standard EMU with lightweight bogeys and available in whatever length and door configuration you'd like. It's not bad (software aside), it just isn't exceptional or a great loss.

The problem with level bording is that it seems to restrict the available choice of door configurations - hopefully Alstom can find a way around that and offer a UK train with level bording over bogies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem with level bording is that it seems to restrict the available choice of door configurations - hopefully Alstom can find a way around that and offer a UK train with level bording over bogies.

That's not possible unless you have very small wheels. Even the Merseyrail units with a low top speed have a ramped interior.

However you don't need every vehicle low floor, just the one(s) with the wheelchair spaces. After all, nobody is shouting for the abolition of double decker buses, which are practical in combining a flat floor for flexible seat layout upstairs and an accessible bit downstairs. Thus there's no reason you couldn't have a mixed door layout with a low floor section, a bit like the 444 which most would consider end-doored but in fact has one door away from the end in the accessible area.

 

[gallafent]

(regarding class 701 Aventra still not entering service)

What actually is wrong with those again?

It looks as if nothing is wrong with the trains, at least I couldn't find anything with some very quick searching. 47 have been accepted by SWR. RMT is refusing to allow them into service (or even training to take place):

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members-updates/role-of-the-guard-and-extension-of-doo-swr061223/

Our Ref: BR2/0146

6th December 2023

Dear RMT Member,

ROLE OF THE GUARD & EXTENSION OF DOO – SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY

A report from our South Western Railway Lead Officer has been received regarding the company’s proposals on the 701 principles for Guards.

This matter has been considered by the Union’s National Executive Committee who have reviewed the principles for Guards and Rail Operators and have instructed me to write to the company to reject the proposals as they do not match.

Therefore, I have advised SWR management that the RMT Union formally rejects these principles in their current form.

There are several key areas which need amending before they are acceptable to this Union. I have asked the company to arrange an urgent meeting with the Lead Officer and the Guards and Retail Company Councils to discuss this matter further.

As there is currently no agreement between the Union and the company, I have asked that any new training or soft launch is suspended immediately until an agreement has been reached with the RMT union.

I trust this keeps you advised, and I will write to members following any further updates on this matter.

Yours sincerely

Michael Lynch

General Secretary