Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

[43066]

Why is it a 'woke" term?
I'm a driver..of nearly 35 years. Why is a totally corporate image term used by a company, "woke"??
I'm a driver ..probably now a " motive power operative". Not "woke"
A guard is a guard. Now either OBS or conductor...btw an old US term for a guard even used on LU in early years..not "woke"
A company calls roles what it does
This is not a new thing! For years train guards have had different names...same as platform staff, RPIs, etc
How is it "woke"??

I’m not sure “woke” is the right term, but it certainly sounds daft and pretentious, much like the brand name. Calling a guard a TM is one thing; “train manager” at least describes their job, as does “on board supervisor” (which is closer to what this job is) but “ambassador” is meaningless corporate flannel.

 

[dk1]

Lumo will be diagramming 4 units with one on maintenance.

More interesting will be what they do when there’s engineering work: borrow 802s from Hull with 803s doing KX-Hull for a single 802 forward?

Interesting times. Already using them for crew training along with TPX units so could well do. Relying on 100% availability on a regular basis would be foolish.

 

[Killingworth]

They absolutely will. The 5 trains aren't going to pay for themselves sitting there doing nothing.

Their paths are already set, only the training, stopping patterns and start dates need to be confirmed when all"s ready. See RTT for Newcastle in December, 5 paths each way; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...3/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LD

 

[JonathanH]

More interesting will be what they do when there’s engineering work: borrow 802s from Hull with 803s doing KX-Hull for a single 802 forward?

I guess it depends on the location of the engineering work but it seems possible they will just cancel the services. Nothing shown running currently for some weekends in late November when there are diversions via Lincoln (eg 20/21 November).

 

[Darandio]

I guess it depends on the location of the engineering work but it seems possible they will just cancel the services. Nothing shown running currently for some weekends in late November when there are diversions via Lincoln (eg 20/21 November).

Their timetable page says that amendments will be published for such dates 6 weeks in advance. Of course amendments could actually mean cancellations.

 

[JonathanH]

Their timetable page says that amendments will be published for such dates 6 weeks in advance. Of course amendments could actually mean cancellations.

A Lincoln or Cambridge diversion could mean being towed by a Hull Trains unit but it is then necessary to find a path further north.

The process for engineering blocks further north is less obvious - given the first stop is Newcastle I guess they could just terminate there (or Morpeth depending on the actual block). They would appear to be under no obligation to provide coaches.

However, until we get to six weeks out this is all speculative.

 

[Watershed]

A Lincoln or Cambridge diversion could mean being towed by a Hull Trains unit but it is then necessary to find a path further north.

The process for engineering blocks further north is less obvious - given the first stop is Newcastle I guess they could just terminate there (or Morpeth depending on the actual block). They would appear to be under no obligation to provide coaches.

However, until we get to six weeks out this is all speculative.

Ordering electric only units certainly constrains their options when it comes to engineering work diversions.

Their Passenger's Charter mentions that services may be bustituted, now of course that may just be some bottom-covering fluff and/or copied over from another Passenger's Charter. But I imagine that it might be the way they go for some diversions.

This is a marked contrast to Hull Trains, who went to the rather considerable effort of diverting into St Pancras during the Kings Cross blockade earlier this year.

 

[Ianno87]

Ordering electric only units certainly constrains their options when it comes to engineering work diversions.

One might argue that diversionary routes are themselves limited on capacity, so another operator trying to squeeze trains through is unhelpful.

I'd rather capacity via Lincoln etc. were used for maximum capacity 10 car sets rather than filling it up with short trains.

It's hardly like Lumo are providing a direct service that other operators aren't (which you might argue for Hull/Bradford/Sunderland)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2021 ==

A Lincoln or Cambridge diversion could mean being towed by a Hull Trains unit but it is then necessary to find a path further north.

Would be interesting to see if the paths north of Doncaster (from Hull/Edinburgh) line up for an attachment or not at Doncaster.

 

[43096]

A Lincoln or Cambridge diversion could mean being towed by a Hull Trains unit but it is then necessary to find a path further north.

I doubt they can tow them in service as there is no engine at all on the 803s. There is apparently a stand by battery but how long this lasts and what it powers, we don’t know.

 

[greyman42]

Branding now applied:

View attachment 102263

Is there a reason for offsetting the "o"?

 

[Watershed]

One might argue that diversionary routes are themselves limited on capacity, so another operator trying to squeeze trains through is unhelpful.

I'd rather capacity via Lincoln etc. were used for maximum capacity 10 car sets rather than filling it up with short trains.

It's hardly like Lumo are providing a direct service that other operators aren't (which you might argue for Hull/Bradford/Sunderland)

It's almost as if those statements could be applied to Lumo, even when they're not diverting...

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there a reason for offsetting the "o"?

It can be easily converted to a “p”?

 

[williamn]

it certainly sounds daft and pretentious, much like the brand name

The readers of this forum are absolutely not the target market for this service.

 

[TheBigD]

I guess it depends on the location of the engineering work but it seems possible they will just cancel the services. Nothing shown running currently for some weekends in late November when there are diversions via Lincoln (eg 20/21 November).

Is there anything to stop them running WCML Euston -Edinburgh if the ECML is shut for engineering work? If the primary market is London-Edinburgh traffic then WCML seems sensible.

 

[Watershed]

Is there anything to stop them running WCML Euston -Edinburgh if the ECML is shut for engineering work? If the primary market is London-Edinburgh traffic then WCML seems sensible.

Paths and route knowledge. And the fact that their crew depot is in Newcastle which isn't on that route at all, meaning they'd be unlikely to have enough drivers to run many services that way (this is one of the reasons why LNER only divert 1tph via Carlisle).

But apart from those dealbreakers... yes

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there a reason for offsetting the "o"?

It's a logo device and that's what they designed?

It also apes Thello a bit.

 

[Mainline421]

How many passengers pay cash for long distance rail journeys? It's got to be very near 0 now. People are hardly ever paying cash for anything now other than odd small businesses that only take it like my local chippy, hand car wash etc.

On a fairly busy northbound Avanti last Wednesday, there were two out of maybe 30-40 people in my coach who offered up a paper ticket (for which I bet they paid by card), everyone else had an e-ticket which was by definition paid for by card.

To be honest I don't entirely get why they are allowing on board purchase in this way rather than following the standard system of allowing it only if there is no opportunity to pay. It's only creating them trouble.

Right now as I read your post I'm on a Avanti service from Euston to Carlisle and I paid by cash. Avanti ticket offices can issue etickets so any one of the passengers with them could have also paid cash (plus paper roll tickets have barcodes too).

It's not as uncommon as you seem to think, and if Lumo don't change their tune it may create genuine issues for them at Morpeth.

 

[TheBigD]

Paths and route knowledge. And the fact that their crew depot is in Newcastle which isn't on that route at all, meaning they'd be unlikely to have enough drivers to run many services that way (this is one of the reasons why LNER only divert 1tph via Carlisle).

But apart from those dealbreakers... yes

Will be intriguing to see what they decide do during diversions. Shut up shop, or attach to TPE/Hull Trains, divert etc, depending where the work is.
Time will tell.

Only electrified diversion route is Hertford Loop (or wcml).

 

[800001]

Will be intriguing to see what they decide do during diversions. Shut up shop, or attach to TPE/Hull Trains, divert etc, depending where the work is.
Time will tell.

Only electrified diversion route is Hertford Loop (or wcml).

Unless the battery is capable of providing hotel power on a dragged divert, I find that unlikely.
When an lner 5 car electric is dragged by a 5 car bimode, the electric sets 1 diesel engine is purely providing lighting, air con, toilets etc, it isn't providing power to move train.

 

[greyman42]

The readers of this forum are absolutely not the target market for this service.

What makes you think that?

 

[williamn]

What makes you think that?

Because we all have an incredibly niche interest in railways and are therefore completely atypical. The market for this service is mostly people who would have flown. They will know zero about how railways work (and won't care) and terms like 'Ambassador' feel more friendly than 'Guard' to them. They're used to brands like Easyjet, Jet2, Whizz etc. Lumo is a blank slate of a name, which is an advantage.

 

[CreamNCookies]

I don't fly often, but travel std class down to London a lot on LNER from Newcastle. Their timetable suits my leisure travelling spot on so far.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because we all have an incredibly niche interest in railways and are therefore completely atypical. The market for this service is mostly people who would have flown. They will know zero about how railways work (and won't care) and terms like 'Ambassador' feel more friendly than 'Guard' to them. They're used to brands like Easyjet, Jet2, Whizz etc. Lumo is a blank slate of a name, which is an advantage.

"Guard" is a bit archaic, I'll give you, and other than on SWR not really used in public facing language. Terms like "conductor", "host" or "steward" might be more familiar, but I think corporate bull is also disliked by the public, and "ambassador" certainly is that.

 

[Horizon22]

There's now a timetable on site.
https://www.lumo.co.uk/our-timetable

Does look a bit like someone did a default table in Word and pasted an image in!

Anyway I think a lot of people are over-analysing this. Besides the launch dates, and travelling on it once to get a feel for it, this isn’t really geared towards the enthusiast market or most of the forum users here!

It’s aimed at younger couples / groups who maybe want a weekend out in London / Edinburgh (primarily) from vice versa in a cheap way that isn’t the car (very climate aware) or plane. Sort of people who are used to no-frills stuff already and don’t actually care that much about the intricacies of rail travel. They just want to buy a ticket and go. Whether it’s sustainable is another matter and if the timings are suitable will be critical.

 

[AlterEgo]

Because we all have an incredibly niche interest in railways and are therefore completely atypical. The market for this service is mostly people who would have flown. They will know zero about how railways work (and won't care) and terms like 'Ambassador' feel more friendly than 'Guard' to them. They're used to brands like Easyjet, Jet2, Whizz etc. Lumo is a blank slate of a name, which is an advantage.

I would tend to agree with this.

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s aimed at younger couples / groups who maybe want a weekend out in London / Edinburgh (primarily) from vice versa in a cheap way that isn’t the car (very climate aware) or plane. Sort of people who are used to no-frills stuff already and don’t actually care that much about the intricacies of rail travel. They just want to buy a ticket and go. Whether it’s sustainable is another matter and if the timings are suitable will be critical.

It is aimed very squarely at easyJet customers.

 

[AlterEgo]

I for one hope the new service is successful. I’m not the target market but London to Edinburgh for less than £20 is super cheap and an 18 year old me would have absolutely jumped at the opportunity. If it gets more people on trains it’s good by me.

 

[capitalconnect]

What is it with TOCs choosing all these ridiculous names for their onboard staff. So far we have had:

• On Board Manager
• On Board Supervisor
• Senior Conductor
• Train Captain
• Train Manager

But i think the name "Customer Experience Ambassador" is certainly the most ridiculous name yet. No passenger is going to refer to them as that. Job titles on the railway seem to just get more and more ridiculous.

They are not a Guard so why not just call them a "Ticket Inspector" instead. I think "Ticket Inspector" is a simple name that everyone will understand. That is what most ordinary passengers usually refer to onboard staff and they will be walking through checking tickets so in my opinion "Ticket Inspector" would be the most suitable name for them.

 

[centro-323]

They are not a Guard so why not just call them a "Ticket Inspector" instead. I think "Ticket Inspector" is a simple name that everyone will understand. That is what most ordinary passengers usually refer to onboard staff and they will be walking through checking tickets so in my opinion "Ticket Inspector" would be the most suitable name for them.

Because they aren't paid £30k per year (from the job advert a couple of months ago) just to scan QR codes. They'll be more like aircrew trying to keep people comfortable and help them with any questions or other needs.

 

[Horizon22]

What is it with TOCs choosing all these ridiculous names for their onboard staff. So far we have had:

• On Board Manager
• On Board Supervisor
• Senior Conductor
• Train Captain
• Train Manager

But i think the name "Customer Experience Ambassador" is certainly the most ridiculous name yet. No passenger is going to refer to them as that. Job titles on the railway seem to just get more and more ridiculous.

They are not a Guard so why not just call them a "Ticket Inspector" instead. I think "Ticket Inspector" is a simple name that everyone will understand. That is what most ordinary passengers usually refer to onboard staff and they will be walking through checking tickets so in my opinion "Ticket Inspector" would be the most suitable name for them.

Wouldn’t say there that ridiculous. I might raise my eyebrows a little at “Train Captain” (and Senior Conductor is a weird privatisation quirk since “Conductors” no longer exist at those TOCs!) but otherwise it effectively describes their job. “Ambassador” is a catch-all term and is a bit more vague however.