Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

[Steddenm]

I was talking to a mate about Lum⁰ yesterday and why FirstGroup decided not to call it East Coast Trains, and our opinion (and he works for FirstGroup) is that they may have some plans in the future to expand their network to operate on the WCML possibly in the paths GC were originally given between Blackpool and London.

 

[Bluejays]

Hope it works , better seats and a novel idea to catering. Hoping that they maintain their aggressive pricing policy to really try and attract people.

Echo some of the negative comments mind, some of the 'branding' strikes me as trying to be edgy without actually doing anything. Rather than hyperbolic crap about being 'disruptive ' and 'lifestyle brand' why not really double down on price and eco credentials versus flying.

I think its a bit odd that they don't offer railcard discounts, I wonder if this will make their fares less competitive for many of their target customers

 

[Darandio]

I think its a bit odd that they don't offer railcard discounts, I wonder if this will make their fares less competitive for many of their target customers

They do, it's only the veteran's railcard that isn't accepted.

 

[Bluejays]

They do, it's only the veteran's railcard that isn't accepted.

My bad !! Very attractive ticket prices. Should lead to full trains hopefullt

 

[norbitonflyer]

They do, it's only the veteran's railcard that isn't accepted.

The veterans railcard is fairly new. Is the problem simply that it hasn't yet found its way onto some databases?

 

[Darandio]

The veterans railcard is fairly new. Is the problem simply that it hasn't yet found its way onto some databases?

Not sure. Hull Trains and Grand Central don't accept it either, seems very much an open access thing.

 

[ServerHoster]

About their name...
https://twitter.com/LumoTravel/status/1435643057760882692

Hey Rob, our name has some thinking behind it. We combined luminosity (Lu), with our fresh thinking and innovation, and motion (mo) all to create Lumo!

 

[ainsworth74]

Wonder if they've employed some people from Virgin Trains. Some of this stuff is worthy of their type of corporate "style"

 

[357]

You forgot about the lovely 3 abreast seating on some of there sets...

ouigo interior at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

These are on the same results page. It seems it is not the entire train, and the seats are 3+1 instead of the 3+2 common in the UK.

I imagine the bays of 6 are popular with groups of friends or family, and the 1+1 seats with solo travelers.

 

[mark-h]

"Ticket Inspector" would be the most suitable name for them.

Given the long runs between stops, there would be the opportunity for the ticket inspector to carry out other roles such as catering after checking tickets.

 

[johnnychips]

Let’s be positive. It sounds like somebody with a knowledge of ticketing regulations, what tickets they want to offer and how to buy them, and basic geography needs to go through their website with a fine-tooth comb. This really should have been done before. It reminds me of Chinese companies who put an “English” translation on the websites and publicity without checking with native-English speakers they employ.

On the other hand the fares seem good value, the seats seem comfortable and it’s a nice variation in an increasingly uniform world of trains. So let’s see how it goes!

 

[Class 170101]

Paths and route knowledge. And the fact that their crew depot is in Newcastle which isn't on that route at all, meaning they'd be unlikely to have enough drivers to run many services that way (this is one of the reasons why LNER only divert 1tph via Carlisle).

But apart from those dealbreakers... yes

I wonder about this but perhaps Newcastle crew pass to Carlisle to meet trains there but I do wonder, like other readers, whether they will just shut up shop if there are diversions needed north of Hitchin.

 

[Alex365Dash]

That sounds like you're trying to travel on a train without having previously paid your fare and with intent to avoid the payment thereof, because you fully know how they want you to pay your fare and are deliberately trying to not have any accepted payment method on you.

I was under the impression that cash was an accepted payment method but there was no opportunity to pay on board as Lumo couldn’t accept cash on board, however there doesn’t appear to actually be a contractual obligation anywhere (or at least one in a contract the passenger agrees to) to accept cash on National Rail services, so it seems this is a non-issue.

Besides, I imagine the only passengers who would want to use cash as a payment method, are on board and haven’t yet got a ticket are passengers making local journeys from Morpeth to Newcastle with a Promise to Pay, who will probably just end up paying at Newcastle instead.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Wonder if they've employed some people from Virgin Trains. Some of this stuff is worthy of their type of corporate "style"

Seems a little unfair to compare a very successful and well known brand (like it or not) to this somewhat random new corporate venture?

 

[pdeaves]

I wonder about this but perhaps Newcastle crew pass to Carlisle to meet trains there but I do wonder, like other readers, whether they will just shut up shop if there are diversions needed north of Hitchin.

I think we need to see what they do. I expect thoughts are on launching and running the proper service at the moment. As and when planned engineering disruption is necessary, there will be some plan. There is currently no need to make all that public.

 

[Bald Rick]

I was talking to a mate about Lum⁰ yesterday and why FirstGroup decided not to call it East Coast Trains, and our opinion (and he works for FirstGroup) is that they may have some plans in the future to expand their network to operate on the WCML possibly in the paths GC were originally given between Blackpool and London.

What, to compete with themselves?

 

[Andrew1395]

Wont they be competing with GBR by April 2024?

 

[skyhigh]

What, to compete with themselves?

To be fair it's not the worst idea - Avanti for the standard/premium service, Lumo for the bargain basement. Not competing against themselves, but at a price against the train/car/plane without compromising the levels of service Avanti offers. Still doubt it'll happen though!

 

[megabusser]

To be fair it's not the worst idea - Avanti for the standard/premium service, Lumo for the bargain basement. Not competing against themselves, but at a price against the train/car/plane without compromising the levels of service Avanti offers. Still doubt it'll happen though!

i wonder if ‘Lumo’ could ultimately be First’s answer to ‘Mega’/‘Flix’. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the brand expand beyond the ECML service.

Some other thoughts from a price-conscious traveller who often travels between Edinburgh and London…

- I’m surprised that it’s not reservation only and Advances only. Folk who travel Megabus and EasyJet are very much used to that.

- The website booking page is a shambles. It should be much more like Mega/Easy, showing all their services on a given day, and none by their competitors. MegaTrain managed to do their own thing totally separate from the main National Rail system, can’t see why this couldn’t as well.

- Issues with people wanting to pay cash are almost certainly near non-existant, but it seems nuts to sell any tickets on board. Again, Mega/Easy have no issues only having people who’ve bought before boarding, it seems like an odd problem to create when starting from scratch.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wonder if they've employed some people from Virgin Trains. Some of this stuff is worthy of their type of corporate "style"

I thought he worked for LNER now.

 

[takno]

i wonder if ‘Lumo’ could ultimately be First’s answer to ‘Mega’/‘Flix’. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the brand expand beyond the ECML service.

Some other thoughts from a price-conscious traveller who often travels between Edinburgh and London…

- I’m surprised that it’s not reservation only and Advances only. Folk who travel Megabus and EasyJet are very much used to that.

- The website booking page is a shambles. It should be much more like Mega/Easy, showing all their services on a given day, and none by their competitors. MegaTrain managed to do their own thing totally separate from the main National Rail system, can’t see why this couldn’t as well.

- Issues with people wanting to pay cash are almost certainly near non-existant, but it seems nuts to sell any tickets on board. Again, Mega/Easy have no issues only having people who’ve bought before boarding, it seems like an odd problem to create when starting from scratch.

Quite a lot of Megabus services allow payment on board, since they are just cross-branded Stagecoach buses. Certainly its pretty normal internationally to be able to pay on board buses. Airlines are a bit of an outlier just because you have to have the ticket to get through security anyway.

Ultimately one of the key benefits of rail travel is reasonably-priced walk-up travel, and it's good that they haven't chosen to forgo that

 

[WestRiding]

Where will companies like this be left come the Great British Railway idea in 2023, or will they continue to run as their own brand?

 

[Darandio]

Where will companies like this be left come the Great British Railway idea in 2023, or will they continue to run as their own brand?

Continue as they are. Even after the whole changover operators are also still welcome to explore new open access opportunites where capacity exists.

 

[JamesT]

Where will companies like this be left come the Great British Railway idea in 2023, or will they continue to run as their own brand?

Open Access operators like Lumo, or indeed operators franchised by the devolved administrations continue as separate entities.

 

[Pugwash]

A Paddington direct to Newquay service would be interesting to see tried if they are looking for some additional routes for their services for a budget concious traveller and to build the brand.

You could argue they are no longer competing with themselves if the Government get the GWR farebox.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Standing at Arlesey station around 1020 today, I saw what looked like a Transpennine Express 80x heading south through the station. Looking it up on RTT, it appears it was a test run from Edinburgh to Kings Cross by Lumo. So for anyone wondering why a TPE 80x is running around the southern ECML today, this would most likely be the explanation

 

[800001]

Standing at Arlesey station around 1020 today, I saw what looked like a Transpennine Express 80x heading south through the station. Looking it up on RTT, it appears it was a test run from Edinburgh to Kings Cross by Lumo. So for anyone wondering why a TPE 80x is running around the southern ECML today, this would most likely be the explanation

Been doing it for several weeks, also using Hull Trains units for driver and crew training

 

[talltim]

Whether or not many people use it, only cash is legal tender and thus must be accepted to settle a debt. (If cash is refused the debt becomes unenforcable). On buses and trains where you pay before, or at the point of, boarding, they can refuse to let you on if you haven't got the right card/pass even if you have cash (as they do on London buses) as no debt has been incurred. (In the same way a cafeteria can refuse cash but a restaurant msut let you settle the bill by cash)

But if you have boarded a train without a ticket then a debt is incurred as soon as it starts to move. I don't see how they can refuse to settle that debt if you offer to do so by cash. Possibly the Ts & Cs allow them to take your details so they can call in the debt later, but it would then still be necessary that it can, if you choose, be settled in cash.

But you only owe them for the part of the journey you have done, the rest you are paying in advance...

 

[Watershed]

But you only owe them for the part of the journey you have done, the rest you are paying in advance...

You owe the fare until at least the next station stop. Which, if boarding a southbound service at Newcastle, would be £59...

 

[mad_rich]

Quite a lot of Megabus services allow payment on board, since they are just cross-branded Stagecoach buses. Certainly its pretty normal internationally to be able to pay on board buses. Airlines are a bit of an outlier just because you have to have the ticket to get through security anyway.

Ultimately one of the key benefits of rail travel is reasonably-priced walk-up travel, and it's good that they haven't chosen to forgo that

There was a time, when BA was running its SuperShuttle service, you could turn up at the airport with no reservation, walk on to the plane, and pay onboard in cash. It was guaranteed availability, too: if the plane was full, they'd send a second one, just for you! Some lucky people even found themselves travelling by Concorde (subsonic).

A History of the British Airways "Shuttle" Service On UK Domestic Routes

The Shuttle, launched in 1975, was British Airways' "turn up and go" service operating on UK domestic routes from London.

londonairtravel.com

Hard to imagine these days.