Making seat reservation on Grand Central

[miklcct]

I'm planning to travel on a Grand Central service tomorrow. When I tried to phone the number according to the instruction from the website for a seat reservation, it told me it's not office hour and hang up.

I want to travel on the last GC service from York to London tomorrow which will pass the LNER service I'm transferring from. How can I make a seat reservation? If not, how likely will the train be overcrowded?

 

[skyhigh]

How can I make a seat reservation? If not, how likely will the train be overcrowded?

The train is fully booked, GC suggest on their website that reservations are compulsory due to limited capacity due to engineering work.

 

[miklcct]

The train is fully booked, GC suggest on their website that reservations are compulsory due to limited capacity due to engineering work.

Is it mandatory in practice? Or can I squeeze in with my any permitted ticket? The LNER journeys are extended by an hour then normal so I'd like to change trains if possible.

 

[skyhigh]

I imagine in practice nobody will care if you have an any permitted ticket. I would expect it to be pretty busy though. If you're changing from 1E23 you might find that the extra 30-ish minutes in journey is worth it for a more comfortable trip as it looks like seat reservations are still available through to London.

 

[miklcct]

I imagine in practice nobody will care if you have an any permitted ticket. I would expect it to be pretty busy though. If you're changing from 1E23 you might find that the extra 30-ish minutes in journey is worth it for a more comfortable trip as it looks like seat reservations are still available through to London.

How many cars will the Grand Central service and the LNER service be? I'm expecting a significant portion of passengers to actually make this change as suggested by journey planners, unless they use an advance through ticket.

This train change is very tempting due to the significant amount of time saved even I fully expect the train to be overcrowded. (I already have a reservation for the LNER train through to London, and my intention now is to actually detrain at York and make the change)

 

[Watershed]

How many cars will the Grand Central service and the LNER service be? I'm expecting a significant portion of passengers to actually make this change as suggested by journey planners, unless they use an advance through ticket.

This train change is very tempting due to the significant amount of time saved even I fully expect the train to be overcrowded. (I already have a reservation for the LNER train through to London, and my intention now is to actually detrain at York and make the change)

The Grand Central service will be 5 coaches whilst the LNER will likely be 9 or 10 coaches.

 

[mikeg]

Is it mandatory in practice? Or can I squeeze in with my any permitted ticket? The LNER journeys are extended by an hour then normal so I'd like to change trains if possible.

Jein...

I've seen people boarding at York heading for Sunderland being told that it's mandatory reservations, particularly if buying their ticket on the train, but:

• At no point were these people evicted from the train at an intermediate stop, only given a telling off and furthermore they were sold the required ticket.
• GC were on a ticket acceptance list today
• TPE are on strike on Sundays with a vastly reduced timetable, there are a small number of unreserved seats in coach B and people regularly board at Thirsk with walkup tickets and make use of these seats. This I think is only fair as these people otherwise wouldn't have a workable service. At no point has any passenger boarding at Thirsk without a reservation been challenged in my experience.

However I will say be prepared to stand if you do squeeze your way on!

 

[miklcct]

The Grand Central service will be 5 coaches whilst the LNER will likely be 9 or 10 coaches.

That's not going to be pleasant if a huge amount of passengers are using flexible tickets and making the transfer en masse - had the Grand Central service be overloaded to the extent that it couldn't run without offloading passengers in the past?

What's the reason that LNER services are diverted through Leeds but Grand Central services aren't? This seems putting unnecessary stress on Grand Central trains to me by making them overtake LNER trains.

 

[Haywain]

That's not going to be pleasant if a huge amount of passengers are using flexible tickets and making the transfer en masse - had the Grand Central service be overloaded to the extent that it couldn't run without offloading passengers in the past?

What's the reason that LNER services are diverted through Leeds but Grand Central services aren't? This seems putting unnecessary stress on Grand Central trains to me by making them overtake LNER trains.

There’s engineering works taking place meaning the direct line from York to Doncaster is unavailable. As GC don’t call anywhere south of York they divert through the Yorkshire countryside but LNER divert through Leeds for crew change purposes.

 

[skyhigh]

This train change is very tempting due to the significant amount of time saved even I fully expect the train to be overcrowded.

Personally I'd stay on the LNER for a much more comfortable trip even if it does take 30 minutes longer.

 

[Watershed]

That's not going to be pleasant if a huge amount of passengers are using flexible tickets and making the transfer en masse - had the Grand Central service be overloaded to the extent that it couldn't run without offloading passengers in the past?

What's the reason that LNER services are diverted through Leeds but Grand Central services aren't? This seems putting unnecessary stress on Grand Central trains to me by making them overtake LNER trains.

The vast majority of people are not as concerned as you about arriving at their destination in the quickest possible time, and would rather stick on their train if they already have a seat reserved etc. So I think it unlikely that there will be hordes changing over to the GC service.

GC only operate a few services a day, meaning it's feasible for them to either use route conductors or train a select few traincrew to run services via the shortest and quickest route that's still open (via Castleford and Crofton West Jn).

By contrast, LNER are running 1tph diverted via Leeds, so it simply wouldn't be practicable to rely on route conductors for that number of trains. They need to rely on routes that most of their traincrew sign, hence the diversion via Leeds.

 

[Haywain]

GC only operate a few services a day, meaning it's feasible for them to either use route conductors or train a select few traincrew to run services via the shortest and quickest route that's still open (via Castleford and Crofton West Jn).

I am pretty sure they are using route conductors.

 

[miklcct]

I've just tried a ticket office and the result is no availability.

 

[skyhigh]

I've just tried a ticket office and the result is no availability.

Funny that.

The train is fully booked

 

[miklcct]

The vast majority of people are not as concerned as you about arriving at their destination in the quickest possible time, and would rather stick on their train if they already have a seat reserved etc. So I think it unlikely that there will be hordes changing over to the GC service.

GC only operate a few services a day, meaning it's feasible for them to either use route conductors or train a select few traincrew to run services via the shortest and quickest route that's still open (via Castleford and Crofton West Jn).

By contrast, LNER are running 1tph diverted via Leeds, so it simply wouldn't be practicable to rely on route conductors for that number of trains. They need to rely on routes that most of their traincrew sign, hence the diversion via Leeds.

I have changed trains. It has turned out that not many people were on the platform after the LNER departed (the Grand Central and LNER used the same platform scheduled 10 minutes apart), not all seats are occupied after the train started, and old-fashioned seat reservation coupons are still used on the train. However, the coupons stuck on the seats are out of date as they are for the previous departure in the opposite direction. The train is actually less crowded than the LNER train I left.

The train has been delayed and has failed to pass the LNER as scheduled before Doncaster where an unadvertised call takes place.

It seems that capacity management has failed on the service. I'm fully expecting a train shown as "sold out", when scheduled to overtake the main operator for the same destination, will be loaded to the extent of standing passengers. I'm very interested in the proportion of advance / flexible tickets used on the East Coast Main Line intercity service.

 

[alistairlees]

What did the OP do?

 

[Watershed]

I have changed trains. It has turned out that not many people were on the platform after the LNER departed (the Grand Central and LNER used the same platform scheduled 10 minutes apart), not all seats are occupied after the train started, and old-fashioned seat reservation coupons are still used on the train. However, the coupons stuck on the seats are out of date as they are for the previous departure in the opposite direction. The train is actually less crowded than the LNER train I left.

The train has been delayed and has failed to pass the LNER as scheduled before Doncaster where an unadvertised call takes place.

It seems that capacity management has failed on the service. I'm fully expecting a train shown as "sold out", when scheduled to overtake the main operator for the same destination, will be loaded to the extent of standing passengers.

The unadvertised stop at Doncaster is for the route conductor to get on (northbound) or off (southbound).

I similarly found myself on a well-loaded, but not full and standing, GC service recently. I could well believe that it was "sold out" in terms of there being no more seat reservations left, but the decision to mark the services as reservation compulsory seems excessively cautious to me.

I'm very interested in the proportion of advance / flexible tickets used on the East Coast Main Line intercity service.

I think you'll find the vast majority of people use Advance tickets on long distance journeys, simply because it's what booking engines will suggest as the cheapest option in most cases.

 

[skyhigh]

It seems that capacity management has failed on the service. I'm fully expecting a train shown as "sold out"...

I suspect a portion of people have made seat reservations but not made use of them, for various reasons (just like you yourself had a seat reservation to London on the LNER you alighted!). Really the only way you could solve that is to only allow seat reservations with advance tickets, but that would have several fairly major disadvantages.

 

[Starmill]

Grand Central only run trains of five coaches, unless there are exceptional circumstances, in which case they may run with ten, though this is rare.

As a result, most days, trains to and from London have all seats, or almost all seats, occupied in the four Standard Class coaches. This means that if you're travelling standard class on Grand Central to London and you don't have a seat, in general you will either need to stand or sit in the tip-down seat by the doors. You can of course try your luck by walking through the coaches to spot any seats where people have booked but not turned up, but you won't know that until it is too late to leave the train. This approach however is badly undermined by the use of compulsory reservations. As far as I know Grand Central don't overbook, which is of course their right but that's kind of the point of using compulsory reservation, to sell more seats than you have.

 

[skyhigh]

The train has been delayed and has failed to pass the LNER as scheduled before Doncaster where an unadvertised call takes place.

You've overtaken the LNER at Peterbrough, so you'll still arrive first. Though looking at it, the LNER has 14 mins allowance so will probably only be shortly behind you given your train is 12 late.

 

[miklcct]

I think you'll find the vast majority of people use Advance tickets on long distance journeys, simply because it's what booking engines will suggest as the cheapest option in most cases.

My practice is to always compare the advance and flexible fare before buying any train tickets, and it turns out under most circumstances a flexible ticket is a better value as I can always take the fastest available departures whenever I arrive the station and don't need to think about any minimum connecting times.

Also, here as a Grand Central train passes an LNER train, do most retailers suggest a change as the top option for an e.g. Edinburgh - Kings Cross journey?