Making stops on diverted services

[mister-sparky]

This Sunday, there was engineering work around Grove Park in SE London and some Southeastern services were diverted. The mainline Charing Cross to Ramsgate via Tonbridge trains were diverted from Orpington to Victoria and stopped additionally at Bromley South. The mainline Charing Cross to Hastings (Robertsbridge this day due to other works elsewhere) were diverted from Orpington via Beckenham Jct to Lewisham then normal route. Why didn't the Hastings trains also stop at Bromley South? They went through non-stop.

Also, the Hastings trains also get diverted via Redhill and East Croydon on occasions to, going non-stop from Tonbridge to London Bridge. Why don't these stop at Redhill or East Croydon? Redhill especially would provide really useful connections to Gatwick/Brighton etc. Is this because Southern won't let them due to revenue being lost? Or something else entirely? Thanks guys!

 

[swt_passenger]

It's horses for courses isn't it?

From what I've seen diverted services can and do pick up calls which aren't normal for the TOC, but usually only when an existing service is removed or thinned out to make space for the diversion to run.

So in your example, if there are enough Southern services running through their normal stations to meet the usual capacity then Southeastern wouldn't stop.

Examples I can think of are FGW calling at all stations between Yeovil and Exeter when a reduced SWT service is making room for them. On a lower end of the scale, Chandlers Ford sees FGW calls whenever they divert via the Eastleigh - Romsey route.

 

[Liam]

East Coast calls at Carlisle when the ECML is closed. If it's a drag the 67 needs hooked up/removed, but even the HST's stop there. Suppose it allows Glasgow passengers to change.

Also when the Forth Bridge is closed Edinburgh-Aberdeen/Inverness services usually stop at Stirling and Perth.

 

[Crossover]

There are times during times of issues and diversions that First TPE pick up some calls on services via Dewsbury from Northern. During the Stalybridge blockade they also picked up a few calls over Calder Vale as Northern had it's service very thinned out

 

[Philip]

A few years ago I remember one of the platform staff at Salford Crescent saying to a passenger that he could request the driver to stop at Clifton to get her to Swinton. The service was to Clitheroe which was not the booked one train a day stopping at Clifton, however it was the same TOC, Northern.

 

[TheJRB]

This Sunday, there was engineering work around Grove Park in SE London and some Southeastern services were diverted. The mainline Charing Cross to Ramsgate via Tonbridge trains were diverted from Orpington to Victoria and stopped additionally at Bromley South. The mainline Charing Cross to Hastings (Robertsbridge this day due to other works elsewhere) were diverted from Orpington via Beckenham Jct to Lewisham then normal route. Why didn't the Hastings trains also stop at Bromley South? They went through non-stop.

I'm not entirely sure why but it worked the same way last Saturday too. I'd imagine it's so as not to slow down the Hastings train too much. For the Ramsgate train, it takes the same amount of time to Victoria with a stop at Bromley South than a normal run to Charing Cross but for the Hastings train, it's slowed down quite a bit by taking the Hayes line.

Journey times:
Orpington to Charing Cross via Grove Park: 24 minutes
Orpington to Charing Cross via Catford Bridge: 40 minutes
Orpington to Victoria via Bromley South: 24 minutes

Add a stop in at Bromley on the Hastings train and you'd lose a couple more minutes on top of the 16 already lost.

Also, the Hastings trains also get diverted via Redhill and East Croydon on occasions to, going non-stop from Tonbridge to London Bridge. Why don't these stop at Redhill or East Croydon? Redhill especially would provide really useful connections to Gatwick/Brighton etc. Is this because Southern won't let them due to revenue being lost? Or something else entirely? Thanks guys!

Sometimes they do call at Redhill and East Croydon. They certainly did back on the 16th March. It was quite interesting to see direct trains to Robertsbridge and Cannon Street from Redhill! I think it was something to do with there being fewer London trains from Croydon and Redhill though because as you point out they normally run fast from Tonbridge to London Bridge when taking this diversion.

 

[142094]

Part of it will be due to revenue sharing between TOCs. For example, if Grand Central are diverted between Sunderland and Eaglescliffe, they normally travel via Durham and Darlington. In the past there has been a pick up stop at Darlington where passengers from Sunderland who have Grand Central tickets are only allowed to board, which means that East Coast do not 'lose' revenue.

 

[dannypye9999]

A few years ago whenever there was engineering work between Wilmslow and Crewe ATW diverted their Manchester to Cardiff services via Stoke-on-Trent and they called there before reversing back through Kidsgrove and on to Crewe.

 

[Philip]

A few years ago whenever there was engineering work between Wilmslow and Crewe ATW diverted their Manchester to Cardiff services via Stoke-on-Trent and they called there before reversing back through Kidsgrove and on to Crewe.

To add to that during the big blockage of re-signalling between Wilmslow and Crewe, ATW ran their services from Oxford Road via Newton and Warrington. Not sure if they stopped at Warrington during the big blockade but I remember getting on one to Crewe on a separate occasion around Christmas 07.

 

[PHILIPE]

XC call at Gloucester when diverted via Chepstow and FGW also call there when South Wales to Paddington are diverted via Chepstow and Kemble.

 

[dysonsphere]

A few years ago got dropped at Bingham on a special stop order due to the connecting train been to late at Grantham, asked on station and was told no problem. As I remember it dropped plp all along the line and was a nonstop Grantham to Derby, so it works sometimes. (and my girlfriend was happy as well)

 

[Welshman]

Something similar happened to me way back during Central Trains' tenure.

Due to a late arrival at Derby, I missed my connection to Beeston, and the next, and last Nottingham train for the night, was not booked to stop there. Instead of the taxi I was expecting, Central Trains sensibly arranged for that next train to stop at Beeston, especially for me!

I did make a point of thanking the train crew, but was a little disappointed to find there was no red carpet and civic reception when I alighted though!

Going back to ATW-land, during recent diversions via the Mid-Cheshire line between Chester and Manchester Piccadilly, there seemed to be no consistent policy re stopping at Stockport. On some weekends they did, and one or two passengers made use of the interchange facilities, but on other occasions they passed through slowly[which was a novelty!].

However, when those Manchester - Llandudno trains did not stop, they then seemed to wait for a few minutes at Edgeley Junction, awaiting a path over the down main to the CLC lines, so gained nothing by not stopping.

 

[pemma]

However, when those Manchester - Llandudno trains did not stop, they then seemed to wait for a few minutes at Edgeley Junction, awaiting a path over the down main to the CLC lines, so gained nothing by not stopping.

It could have been another train pulled in to platform 2 while the ATW service was waiting to cross to the line towards Altrincham. If the Crewe-Piccadilly stopper is late the normal Piccadilly-Altrincham-Chester service can be forced to sit at Edgeley Junction.

 

[Philip C]

I'm not exactly certain what occurred last weekend but on the preceding weekend Hastings Line trains picked up an extra stop at Petts Wood (covering for missing locals) and at Hildenborough (covering for the absence of the Tunbridge Wells terminators) before running non-stop through Bromley South and via Beckenham Junction to London Bridge. This is certainly a fairly common reaction to the closure of the tracks through Chislehurst.

Making further additional stops at Bromley South would add more to already extended running times. On Saturday September 13th the trip from West St Leonards to Charing Cross was at the 1 hour and 55 minute mark whilst last weekend, including bus from Robertsbridge, Charing Cross to Hastings was timed at round about the 2 hours 30 minutes mark and all trains were running to the same slow service pattern.

I appreciate that it makes it difficult for people to ride the Beckenham Junction to New Beckenham curve from the Bromley area but enough is enough when it comes to making the Sussex Coast further from London, in terms of time, than half of Lancashire or Yorkshire!

 

[ValleyLines142]

There was a time where Cardiff to West Wales services diverted via the Vale of Glamorgan called additionally at Barry, Rhoose and Llantwit Major.

 

[PHILIPE]

There was a time where Cardiff to West Wales services diverted via the Vale of Glamorgan called additionally at Barry, Rhoose and Llantwit Major.

On Saturdays due Engineering work. The normal Bridgend (via VOG) was canned but stations from Cardiff Cen to Barry Dock lost 1 service per hour..

 

[bunnahabhain]

When scheduled for the diversion via Chat Moss, Liverpool to Norwich services call additionally at Newton-le-Willows for Widnes and Warrington passengers.

 

[Whistler40145]

IIRC if the WCML was shut North of Carlisle, Euston to Glasgow services called at Dumfries & Kilmarnock. I also remember services calling at Appleby during S&C diversions.

 

[Parallel]

Due to engineering work, fairly recently FGW Portsmouth services were diverted and called at Eastleigh and Chandlers' Ford instead of Southampton Central!

 

[dannypye9999]

I remember XC diverting their Manchester trains to Victoria instead of Piccadilly during a Christmas period some years ago. One hourly went to Victoria while the other hourly service went to Piccadilly via Warrington BQ but not sure if it made a stop there.

 

[Whistler40145]

One better than that, I've got on an InterCity CrossCountry service at Huyton on a Liverpool Lime Street to Poole service, this was a booked diversion via Manchester Piccadilly & Stoke, this was an extra stop due to a points failure in the Huyton area.

 

[higthomas]

Whenever there is work between Southampton and Reading on a Sunday, the XC services are diverted via, and stop at, Guildford. This is actually very convenient for us, as it eliminates the need to change at Reading (unless you work hard to get the one train a day to and from Newcastle, as I have done -the 0602 all the way through)

 

[LBSCR Times]

Depends on the train planners, as there is often no consistency when the same diversions happen a few weeks apart. A good example is on the west coastway when Brighton to Victoria services are diverted via Littlehampton and Horsham.
Sunday 28th September the early morning services stop at intermediates between Brighton and Worthing, and Sunday 12th October, only call at Hove and Shoreham.
No wonder passengers get confused.
And don't even think of complaint to Southern's Customer Services, as you don't even get a relevant answer.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Whenever there is work between Southampton and Reading on a Sunday, the XC services are diverted via, and stop at, Guildford. This is actually very convenient for us, as it eliminates the need to change at Reading (unless you work hard to get the one train a day to and from Newcastle, as I have done -the 0602 all the way through)

That XC 0602 (SX)/0609 (SO) service to Newcastle is a complete waste of time, all it's there for is route knowledge retention.

It fairly regularly gets canned due to "Operational Reasons",such as no TM, signalling issues,engineering work et al.

XC should provide a decent level of service all day or not bother at all.

 

[Antman]

This Sunday, there was engineering work around Grove Park in SE London and some Southeastern services were diverted. The mainline Charing Cross to Ramsgate via Tonbridge trains were diverted from Orpington to Victoria and stopped additionally at Bromley South. The mainline Charing Cross to Hastings (Robertsbridge this day due to other works elsewhere) were diverted from Orpington via Beckenham Jct to Lewisham then normal route. Why didn't the Hastings trains also stop at Bromley South? They went through non-stop.

Also, the Hastings trains also get diverted via Redhill and East Croydon on occasions to, going non-stop from Tonbridge to London Bridge. Why don't these stop at Redhill or East Croydon? Redhill especially would provide really useful connections to Gatwick/Brighton etc. Is this because Southern won't let them due to revenue being lost? Or something else entirely? Thanks guys!

I can understand your point but I think when trains from Tonbridge to London Bridge are diverted the last thing most people would want is further delays stopping at Redhill and East Croydon when alternative trains are available. Another thing it would confuse some passengers who would assume this was a new service and would be complaining when on another occasion they couldn't get a direct train from say Tunbridge Wells to Redhill.

 

[83G/84D]

XC call at Gloucester when diverted via Chepstow and FGW also call there when South Wales to Paddington are diverted via Chepstow and Kemble.

No two weeks seem the same with XC diversions via Chepstow. Sometimes they go past Severn Tunnel Jn and reverse at Newport (as a booked stop) other times they reverse at Severn Tunnel Jn (without calling at the station). They then sometimes go into Bristol Parkway (reverse) or stop at Patchway and miss out Bristol Parkway.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I've noticed that during the upcoming blockade between Castle Scary & Taunton, that FGW have been copying another neighbouring TOCs tactics in that they've cut out a considerable number of WoE services and the one's going through are stopping at Didcot, Swinedon, Chippenham, Bath & Temple Meads before continuing to Taunton & principal stations West thereof.

 

[Kite159]

Due to engineering work, fairly recently FGW Portsmouth services were diverted and called at Eastleigh and Chandlers' Ford instead of Southampton Central!

Didn't they replaced the SWT service between those stations (I'm guessing due to pathing with the single track section), so no additional services for those stations?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

That's exactly what they do.

The Romsey Rocket just goes Salisbury to Eastleigh via Southampton, then usually does the ¾ mile shunt to Allbrook, before returning whence it came.

 

[samj]

Southern services stop at Horsham when the London to Brighton services are diverted via the Arun valley and west coast way. The only time Horsham has a direct service to Brighton!