Maltese Cross Query

[londonteacher]

A question around travelling across London with a ticket marked with a Maltese cross. I am coming in on a LNER service into KGX and departing from LBG on a Southeastern service. I’m pretty sure it is not valid, but curious would it be valid on Thameslink between STP and LBG?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2025 ==

Also an additional query, the routing means that I have to use LNER from PBO, but there is a TL service from PBO to LBG that connects with the Southeastern service. Surely this would have been a more logical routing?

 

[Watershed]

Yes, Thameslink and Elizabeth line services can be used to make a cross-London transfer between any two appropriate stations in the list towards the middle of this page (in addition to the Underground and DLR). I would suggest it is usually the easiest way of making the transfer.

 

[londonteacher]

Yes, Thameslink and Elizabeth line services can be used to make a cross-London transfer between any two appropriate stations in the list towards the middle of this page (in addition to the Underground and DLR). I would suggest it is usually the easiest way of making the transfer.

Perfect, thank you! I couldn’t find anything that suggested Thameslink anywhere even though it was the most logical route so thank you for the link!

 

[Watershed]

Also an additional query, the routing means that I have to use LNER from PBO, but there is a TL service from PBO to LBG that connects with the Southeastern service. Surely this would have been a more logical routing?

If you have an Advance ticket, then you must travel on the trains shown on your ticket. If no train is shown for part of your journey, you are free to use any reasonable connecting service for this part (there are varying arguments as to whether or not this should be a non-reservable service).

For multi-TOC Advances, GTR have an easement which means you are not tied to the specific GTR service shown on your ticket - you can take an earlier or later GTR service, for that section of the journey. However if your Advance shows LNER between Peterborough and Kings Cross, you can't board a GTR service as this would not be within the scope of the easement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2025 ==

Perfect, thank you! I couldn’t find anything that suggested Thameslink anywhere even though it was the most logical route so thank you for the link!

It doesn't tend to show up on ticketing sites, because the way the industry data works means that their journey planners deem you need 31 minutes to connect between an arriving train at Kings Cross and a departing train at St Pancras - 15 minutes for the minimum connection time at each station, and 1 minute to walk between them. Some journey planners (e.g. the one used by National Rail Enquiries) appear to have a fudge so they only allow 16 minutes, but this isn't documented in the rules.

Of course this is completely excessive as you can actually make the connection in less than 5 minutes in most instances, but it means that the Underground is deemed the fastest option by journey planners.

As for its validity, see the section on the page I linked above under "Travelling across London with your train ticket":

If your journey involves travelling via or across London to connect with another National Rail service, your ticket should include the cost of transfer on London Underground, DLR, Thameslink or Elizabeth line services between the relevant stations.

Your ticket will be marked with a cross ( + ) sign.

Tickets displaying this sign are valid for travel between any 2 stations shown in the list below, appropriate to the route of the through journey being made.

 

[londonteacher]

If you have an Advance ticket, then you must travel on the trains shown on your ticket. If no train is shown for part of your journey, you are free to use any reasonable connecting service for this part (there are varying arguments as to whether or not this should be a non-reservable service).

For multi-TOC Advances, GTR have an easement which means you are not tied to the specific GTR service shown on your ticket - you can take an earlier or later GTR service, for that section of the journey. However if your Advance shows LNER between Peterborough and Kings Cross, you can't board a GTR service as this would not be within the scope of the easement.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2025 ==


It doesn't tend to show up on ticketing sites, because the way the industry data works means that their journey planners deem you need 31 minutes to connect between an arriving train at Kings Cross and a departing train at St Pancras - 15 minutes for the minimum connection time at each station, and 1 minute to walk between them. Some journey planners (e.g. the one used by National Rail Enquiries) appear to have a fudge so they only allow 16 minutes, but this isn't documented in the rules.

Of course this is completely excessive as you can actually make the connection in less than 5 minutes in most instances, but it means that the Underground is deemed the fastest option by journey planners.

As for its validity, see the section on the page I linked above under "Travelling across London with your train ticket":

Yeah I have an advance ticket so meaning I have to travel on LNER, I might try and see if next time I can force the connection onto a Thameslink service but not sure the Uber app has the capability for that!

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Watershed]

Yeah I have an advance ticket so meaning I have to travel on LNER, I might try and see if next time I can force the connection onto a Thameslink service but not sure the Uber app has the capability for that!

Thank you so much for your help!

You would need to use a "via" point with a station that only the Thameslink train serves, which the LNER train wouldn't have as an intermediate timing point. Arlesey, for example.

However the Uber app doesn't even support "via" points (this seems a very basic piece of functionality to be missing) so I don't think you can do this.

If you're using Uber for the 10% back as credits, you could consider using LNER instead to get 10% back as cashback via various card offers (e.g. Amex). They do support via points, though they have a slight problem with their Google Wallet eTicket implementation (not that this would be an issue here as it's a cross London ticket, so has to be issued in paper form).

 

[Hadders]

Peterborough to London on Thameslink is significantly slower than LNER.

WHat can be worth looking at, is changing at Stevenage if the LNER train stops there. Stevenage to London Bridge runs every 15 minutes throughout most of the day and runs non-stop to Finsbury Park. The lower interchange time at Stevenage (4 minutes) compared to 31 minutes to change between Kings Cross and St Pancras often results in an overall faster journey. The change at Stevenage is cross-platform.

 

[londonteacher]

Peterborough to London on Thameslink is significantly slower than LNER.

WHat can be worth looking at, is changing at Stevenage if the LNER train stops there. Stevenage to London Bridge runs every 15 minutes throughout most of the day and runs non-stop to Finsbury Park. The lower interchange time at Stevenage (4 minutes) compared to 31 minutes to change between Kings Cross and St Pancras often results in an overall faster journey. The change at Stevenage is cross-platform.

That is true and is a downside to the Uber app and advance tickets. However the journey today would have been the same time overall.

This was my journey today:

• 2K13 14:27 East Midlands Railway SPA to PBO
• 1A33 15:11 LNER PBO to KGX
• 9J43 16:15 Thameslink STP to LBG
• 1G85 16:46 Southeastern LBG to CTM

I’m going to find a way, using the Uber app to do the following next time:

• 2K13 14:27 East Midlands Railway SPA to PBO
• 9J43 14:55 Thameslink PBO to LBG
• 1G85 16:46 Southeastern LBG to CTM

 

[Haywain]

I’m going to find a way, using the Uber app to do the following next time:

• 2K13 14:27 East Midlands Railway SPA to PBO
• 9J43 14:55 Thameslink PBO to LBG
• 1G85 16:46 Southeastern LBG to CTM

Whilst you might find a way of getting those trains, you may well find that you do not get the same Advance fare. This is because the Advance fares require some of the journey to use LNER services.

 

[alistairlees]

That is true and is a downside to the Uber app and advance tickets. However the journey today would have been the same time overall.

This was my journey today:

• 2K13 14:27 East Midlands Railway SPA to PBO
• 1A33 15:11 LNER PBO to KGX
• 9J43 16:15 Thameslink STP to LBG
• 1G85 16:46 Southeastern LBG to CTM

I’m going to find a way, using the Uber app to do the following next time:

• 2K13 14:27 East Midlands Railway SPA to PBO
• 9J43 14:55 Thameslink PBO to LBG
• 1G85 16:46 Southeastern LBG to CTM

When I try, on the Uber app, a random day next week (Tuesday) I get both the above itineraries offered.

The LNER one has an Advance Single (£32.90). Both of them have the Super Off-Peak Single (£48.60).

The one without the LNER leg does not have an Advance single as only LNER set Advance fares for this flow, and an LNER leg must be present in the journey in order to get the LNER Advance fare to show.