Manchester Central

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That would take the line through the Roman remains of Castlefield and require them to knock down Beetham Tower (you could talk me into that!) and other modern buildings. There would also be a significant gradient to get into the newly opened Central Station.

Well said. Every so often, a certain type of posting appears to start off a new thread where reality of current situations, cost implications, etc, appear NOT to to inhabit the world of those who make these postings.

The posting that I recall best over the last few years on this website that fell into that category concerned the aspirational demolition of the very well patronised multi-million pound events arena that was built on the part of the Manchester Victoria railway station site, that is so well situated in the city area, plus the total rebuilding and land costs in another part of the inner-city conurbation.

This "flight of fancy" stemmed from the wish to have a couple of west-facing terminal platforms at Manchester Victoria railway station...:roll:

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Well said. Every so often, a certain type of posting appears to start off a new thread where reality of current situations, cost implications, etc, appear NOT to to inhabit the world of those who make these postings.

The posting that I recall best over the last few years on this website that fell into that category concerned the aspirational demolition of the very well patronised multi-million pound events arena that was built on the part of the Manchester Victoria railway station site, that is so well situated in the city area, plus the total rebuilding and land costs in another part of the inner-city conurbation.

This "flight of fancy" stemmed from the wish to have a couple of west-facing terminal platforms at Manchester Victoria railway station...:roll:

I'd happily knock down (and rebuild) the MEN Arena to expand Victoria, but I also recognise my normal calculator probably doesn't display enough zeros to do the calculations concerning the cost of doing so.

 

[Joseph_Locke]

I'd happily knock down (and rebuild) the MEN Arena to expand Victoria, but I also recognise my normal calculator probably doesn't display enough zeros to do the calculations concerning the cost of doing so.

Deploying the damp digit, I'm not sure that relocating the Wongabowl arena is necessarily a proper scary number; the Birmingham New Street project (which is probably of similar scope) weighed in at £750m, and then un-re-remodelling Victoria and approaches would probably come in at £350m-ish. (assuming that you'd want two bays at each end and six through lines or eight through lines, just a guess).

All we need is some major flagship rail project that needs an east-west interchange station in Manchester to pay for it ...

 

[Greybeard33]

Manchester (and London and the rest of the UK) needs more through stations not terminus stations. Terminus stations are my main objection to HS2.

Deploying the damp digit, I'm not sure that relocating the Wongabowl arena is necessarily a proper scary number; the Birmingham New Street project (which is probably of similar scope) weighed in at £750m, and then un-re-remodelling Victoria and approaches would probably come in at £350m-ish. (assuming that you'd want two bays at each end and six through lines or eight through lines, just a guess).

All we need is some major flagship rail project that needs an east-west interchange station in Manchester to pay for it ...

But then, in these times of austerity, no major flagship rail project would contemplate spending ~£750m on 12km of tunnel just to get to a terminal station in Manchester. Oh, hang on....

 

[Joseph_Locke]

But then, in these times of austerity, no major flagship rail project would contemplate spending ~£750m on 12km of tunnel just to get to a terminal station in Manchester. Oh, hang on....

Quite

 

[lejog]

Well said. Every so often, a certain type of posting appears to start off a new thread where reality of current situations, cost implications, etc, appear NOT to to inhabit the world of those who make these postings.

The posting that I recall best over the last few years on this website that fell into that category concerned the aspirational demolition of the very well patronised multi-million pound events arena that was built on the part of the Manchester Victoria railway station site, that is so well situated in the city area, plus the total rebuilding and land costs in another part of the inner-city conurbation.

This "flight of fancy" stemmed from the wish to have a couple of west-facing terminal platforms at Manchester Victoria railway station...:roll:

Well you never know. Madsion Square Garden is effectively on 10 years notice to quit the area above Penn Station. Although the plans for Penn are a rather more ambitious than adding a couple of bay platforms. And it does have 150m passengers a year rather than 7m.

 

[A0]

no chance this side of hell freezing over - the current owners might object to loosing their nice conference and exhibition centre...............

About as much chance as reopening the Harrogate to Ripon line and Ripon receiving a half-hourly suburban train, together with hourly expresses to Kings Cross / Newcastle which have been diverted away from York.......

(Let's see how long it takes Deltic08 to take the bait).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well you never know. Madsion Square Garden is effectively on 10 years notice to quit the area above Penn Station. Although the plans for Penn are a rather more ambitious than adding a couple of bay platforms. And it does have 150m passengers a year rather than 7m.

I am pleased to see that you accept that the Penn project is indeed far larger than the website member's aspirational two west-facing terminal platforms at Manchester Victoria.

Being of a mathematical bent, if one looks at the demolition cost of the events arena and the subsequent land purchase and rebuilding costs of a replacement events arena in the inner-city core and then to divide those costings by two, how much do you envisage the cost per terminal platform would equate to?

 

[lejog]

I am pleased to see that you accept that the Penn project is indeed far larger than the website member's aspirational two west-facing terminal platforms at Manchester Victoria.

Being of a mathematical bent, if one looks at the demolition cost of the events arena and the subsequent land purchase and rebuilding costs of a replacement events arena in the inner-city core and then to divide those costings by two, how much do you envisage the cost per terminal platform would equate to?

Ooh a large number, I was being frivolous. New York also has the added advantage of being able fund these plans by leasing out spare land at sky high prices, not to mention throwing in the air rights for a few new skyscrapers.

 

[randyrippley]

the stupid thing that this thread underlines is that its not so many years that the Salford curve was installed and traffic rerouted into the Piccadilly through lines, allowing Victoria to be cut back in size.
Now Piccadilly is out of capacity and everyone wants to route more stuff back through Victoria again......yet the building of the new curve will make things even more choked

On a different off-the-wall idea.......
If the old Mayfield station was demolished, would there be room to run Metrolink tracks around the back of Piccadilly and up the A6 to the existing tracks. You could then feed traffic from the Glossop line into and through the Metrolink system. Yes I realise you'd have to put some crossings in somewhere, but there should be enough of a grade difference between Piccadilly and Mayfield to do that

 

[Joseph_Locke]

If the old Mayfield station was demolished, would there be room to run Metrolink tracks around the back of Piccadilly and up the A6 to the existing tracks. You could then feed traffic from the Glossop line into and through the Metrolink system. Yes I realise you'd have to put some crossings in somewhere, but there should be enough of a grade difference between Piccadilly and Mayfield to do that

Why bother? Why not just come off the Marple line - Ambrose Street - Pottery Lane - under Ashburys - Merrill St - New Islington?

The Mayfield site is spoken for by a developer the demolition countdown has started and your scheme doesn't seem to achieve much, to me at least.

 

[Altfish]

the stupid thing that this thread underlines is that its not so many years that the Salford curve was installed and traffic rerouted into the Piccadilly through lines, allowing Victoria to be cut back in size.
Now Piccadilly is out of capacity and everyone wants to route more stuff back through Victoria again......yet the building of the new curve will make things even more choked.

The Salford curve (I assume you mean the Windsor Link) was built in the days before Metrolink when the links between Victoria and Piccadilly were poor. Add to that that railways were not booming like they are now and it made sense to concentrate all inter-city routes through Piccadilly.
I don't think "..everyone wants to route more stuff back through Victoria again..." but it is the most cost effective option to the growing demand.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There are four existing through platforms at Manchester Victoria and when the current plans reach fruition, there will also be four through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly.