Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[DJH1971]

Thanks for that link to Northwest Sparks DJH, it's an interesting site.

Pete

No worries mate.

BTW: This site also mentions that the Eccles loop will also be electrified.

Where does the Eccles loop go to?

 

[Cheshire Rover]

No worries mate.

BTW: This site also mentions that the Eccles loop will also be electrified.

Where does the Eccles loop go to?

Is that the line into Trafford Park?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

No worries mate.
BTW: This site also mentions that the Eccles loop will also be electrified.
Where does the Eccles loop go to?

The "loop" is the Weaste branch which goes under the main line east of Eccles to a cement terminal by the Manchester Ship Canal (used to be the main LNWR access to the docks).
Before it finally diverges there is a turnout back to the main line forming a goods loop in the Up line, and as there is also a crossover it allows trains to Weaste from the east to reverse off the main line.
The electrification masts have been positioned to allow wiring of the loop, but I doubt if the Weaste branch itself will be wired.

 

[Peter Gl]

but I doubt if the Weaste branch itself will be wired.

I agree, I think the Weaste branch is now disused.

Pete

 

[Geeves]

I think the branch is used adhoc by the Cement trains from Earles, however since the downturn in the economy a few years ago Ive not seen this train running for some time.

Heres a couple of images I took the other week. The wires might run a little further by now, hopefully!

End of the wires last week...

 

[HSTEd]

I still think those look very strange indeed.....

 

[ainsworth74]

I think those in the last set of pictures look like a logical follow on to our existing OHLE technology (and also bomb proof!). What's strange about them?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

And upon looking at a blog called Northwest Sparks (just google it for further info), it notes that a small stretch of caternary has now been erected between Castlefield Junction onto the Castlefield viaduct.

The new wires are just a pair of single strings which extend from Castlefield Junction about 300m along the viaduct (to about the YHA building).
This is about a third of the length of the viaduct.
Also erected are 11 of the big portal structures across the whole layout at Ordsall Lane, with some registration arms as well.
There's lots of heavy-duty steelwork going up, including over the moss - it certainly won't "blend into the background".
No sign of any site activity today - back next week I expect.

 

[Pumbaa]

That first stretch was energised over the Christmas shutdown. Practical time to do it, avoiding a blockade on Trafford Park.

 

[HSTEd]

I think those in the last set of pictures look like a logical follow on to our existing OHLE technology (and also bomb proof!). What's strange about them?

Just I am used to seeing things like Mark 3 Headspans and those lightweight portals used on the bridge at Berwick.

These seem to resemble the early 1500V installation's philosophy of throwing "moar steel" at the problem.

 

[lancastrian]

No worries mate.

BTW: This site also mentions that the Eccles loop will also be electrified.

Where does the Eccles loop go to?

To me the Eccles Loop was always the line from Eccles, through Monton, Tyldesley, Leigh & Pennington, rejoining the Chat Moss Line at what was Kenyon Junction. This, if true would be excellent news, but I doubt its truth.

Not only would they need to rebuild many bridges on the route though Leigh, divert the route past what is now the southern end of the Atherleigh Way. Also they would need the bridges and route restored from Monton, over the M602 back to Eccles.

Although this route, with its branch from Tyldesley to Springs Branch Junction near Wigan would have been an excellent candidate for electrification as part of the North West Triangle (similar in concept to the St. Helen's line now being electrified), it mainly shows the chronic short sightedness of those who agreed the lines closure in 1970, just to save the cost of the bridge over the M602.

It just goes to show that our politicians are complete pillocks from all generations, of what ever party. No foresight, no common sense, only looking to the quick fix and the next election. I just know the the cost of replacing some of the lines that should never have closed will be exorbitant, just look at the cost of only part of the Waverley route now being rebuilt.

 

[SteveRainhill]

Some detail on plans for Huyton and Roby, from the Rail Services Committee of Merseytravel (July 2012).

Report

Appendix

It's surprising how much is planned to be done as part of the electrification.

 

[DXMachina]

Just I am used to seeing things like Mark 3 Headspans and those lightweight portals used on the bridge at Berwick.

These seem to resemble the early 1500V installation's philosophy of throwing "moar steel" at the problem.

Oddly my first opinion of it was 'needs an EM2 to complete the image'

 

[hairyhandedfool]

To me the Eccles Loop was always the line from Eccles, through Monton, Tyldesley, Leigh & Pennington, rejoining the Chat Moss Line at what was Kenyon Junction. This, if true would be excellent news, but I doubt its truth....

There is the matter of a row of houses near Monton and an industrial park of some sort at the old triangle beside the Chat Moss, not forgetting the 'wonderful' bus route planned for the Leigh end of the line!

As noted, the 'loop' in question is the line down the motorway side of the station platforms which occasionally see freight, light engine and charter train use (I've even seen a ATW 175 on there).

 

[Yew]

These seem to resemble the early 1500V installation's philosophy of throwing "moar steel" at the problem.

As long as they dont fall down I'm happy

 

[terryc]

It looks like the vegetation that was overgrowing the old siding and Motor rail terminus to the East of Newton le willows station has been removed.
Does any one know if an 'up loop' is to be constructed here?
It would seem to make sense, as it would otherwise be over 20 miles from the new loop at Huyton to the existing loop at Eccles.

Likewise, there has been a lot of activity on t'other side of the tracks, with the old disused Parkside colliery sidings being finally lifted. However, can't see this being earmarked for a passing loop, as there is already one a couple of miles down the track at Earlestown. (Unless anyone knows differently)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It looks like the vegetation that was overgrowing the old siding and Motor rail terminus to the East of Newton le willows station has been removed.
Does any one know if an 'up loop' is to be constructed here?
It would seem to make sense, as it would otherwise be over 20 miles from the new loop at Huyton to the existing loop at Eccles.

Likewise, there has been a lot of activity on t'other side of the tracks, with the old disused Parkside colliery sidings being finally lifted. However, can't see this being earmarked for a passing loop, as there is already one a couple of miles down the track at Earlestown. (Unless anyone knows differently)

I think it's for new electrical switchgear for the Chat Moss route.
There was already a connection between the WCML below and L&M above, and I think they are extending that to power the wires east and west.
They seem to have concreted foundations for this on the north side, with electrical gubbins protruding.
Work now in progress on the south side.
Having disconnected and lifted the sidings, the redundant (but still lit) colour light signals are now staring along the bare earth!

The Parkside Freight Development is I think now in abeyance (planning application withdrawn).
The Port Salford development is still on the cards though, so some new infrastructure may eventually be needed for that (between the M60/M62 bridges).

 

[ole man]

Breaking News...

The new series style of OHLE has been slated by train drivers.
During bright sunlight there has been glaring of the cantilevers causing drivers to complain.
Theses cantilevers are aluminium.
The only option is go through and paint or spray all the cantilevers with galv to dull the glare.

 

[hwl]

Breaking News...

The new series style of OHLE has been slated by train drivers.
During bright sunlight there has been glaring of the cantilevers causing drivers to complain.
Theses cantilevers are aluminium.
The only option is go through and paint or spray all the cantilevers with galv to dull the glare.

Or leave them outside to corrode slightly in acidic rain water for 6 months before (or after) installing...

(They could be matt anodised in the factory to avoid future issues)

 

[andyb2706]

My apologies if this has already been stated but could the reason for the big ganteries in the Castlefield area due to the new junction which will be there when the Ordsall Curve is built? A bit of advance planning.

The big ganteries have gonu up also at Ordsall Junction although as you get along the Chat Moss Line the ganteries are less substanial than at Castlefield and Ordsall.

 

[507 001]

Some detail on plans for Huyton and Roby, from the Rail Services Committee of Merseytravel (July 2012).

Report

Appendix

It's surprising how much is planned to be done as part of the electrification.

Is it just me or does that seem to be massively over complicated?

 

[Gareth]

I think it's more the way they've illustrated it with the weird colour denotations rather than the actual plans being complicated.

 

[507 001]

I think it's more the way they've illustrated it with the weird colour denotations rather than the actual plans being complicated.

well yes theres that, but surely it would be easier to have all St Helens/Wigan bound trains using the new lines, and all manchester bound trains using the current lines?

 

[swt_passenger]

well yes theres that, but surely it would be easier to have all St Helens/Wigan bound trains using the new lines, and all manchester bound trains using the current lines?

If the ability to loop trains to/from the Manchester direction (by running them through either platform) is to be retained, the layout shown saves considerably on the total number of S&C units (points or crossovers). I think if you attempt to redraw it with the main junction at the other end while maintaining the full flexibility of the layout shown you need about 50% more S&C?

 

[Gareth]

I have a feeling Merseytravel aren't entirely sure what Network Rail intends to do here, service-wise. Indeed, they tentatively hint that they'd like to be kept in the loop more than they have been.

Seeing the track layout, Merseytravel assume that, by Phase 2, the Liverpool-bound trains will be split between platforms (P1 & P2), with trains from Manchester coming in on P1 and trains from Wigan coming in on P2. Seen as it isn't a single island platform, they understandably see this as bit of an issue and talk of prominent displays informing people which platform the next train to Liverpool will arrive on, so they don't end up on the wrong side of the tracks.

I think this may be a premature assumption. Noting that whilst trains from Wigan must call at P2 but that trains from Manchester will potentially be able to call at either P1 or P2, my personal theory is that once Phase 2 is complete, all Liverpool-bound trains stopping at Huyton will call at P2. Anything from Manchester not stopping there, such as the current Manchester Airport to Liverpool semi-fast, would use the track that passes P1. This means that P1 would not be in general use but would be there for use if any unusual circumstance required it.

Time will tell, hopefully.

 

[507 001]

If the ability to loop trains to/from the Manchester direction (by running them through either platform) is to be retained, the layout shown saves considerably on the total number of S&C units (points or crossovers). I think if you attempt to redraw it with the main junction at the other end while maintaining the full flexibility of the layout shown you need about 50% more S&C?

Fair enough, but the way I see it is that were going to have trains constantly getting in the way of each other.

 

[Peter Gl]

Blimey Gareth, my brain hurts!!!

Pete

 

[swt_passenger]

Fair enough, but the way I see it is that were going to have trains constantly getting in the way of each other.

The number of trains making conflicting crossings isn't altered by having the junction at the east end though - without installing a flyover it is down to keeping them apart by timetabling, whichever end of the station the crossover is located at.

 

[OxtedL]

This diagram is how I would summarise the proposed stage 2 layout given in the report linked to (bottom) vs the alternative suggestion given above (top).

The red dots are key, they are where trains going in opposite directions would cross in front of each other - we want as few of those as possible but with maximum flexibility.

(Please correct me if this is wrong.)

 

[507 001]

This diagram is how I would summarise the proposed stage 2 layout given in the report linked to (bottom) vs the alternative suggestion given above (top).

The red dots are key, they are where trains going in opposite directions would cross in front of each other - we want as few of those as possible but with maximum flexibility.

(Please correct me if this is wrong.)

I stand corrected, cheers