Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

[Class 170101]

why the different type of structures? urely it would be easier if they were all the same design?

 

[DJH1971]

why the different type of structures? urely it would be easier if they were all the same design?

Guess it depends upon the location and the nature of the ground nearby.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Two stretches of catenary wire have gone up over the Up track between Huyton and Wigan.
One is east of Bryn, the other west of Garswood, both about a mile long.
Return wire is also up on these stretches, and extends west almost to Carr Mill Viaduct, on both tracks.
There is also a short section of return wire in place just east of Prescot on the Up.

Edit:
The new Northern timetables for routes via Huyton make no mention of the upcoming 9-day blockade between July 5-13.
This is a rather poor show considering the dates have been known for months.

 

[DJH1971]

Two stretches of catenary wire have gone up over the Up track between Huyton and Wigan.
One is east of Bryn, the other west of Garswood, both about a mile long.
Return wire is also up on these stretches, and extends west almost to Carr Mill Viaduct, on both tracks.
There is also a short section of return wire in place just east of Prescot on the Up.

I take it this is in addition to the return wiring already in place around Bryn and Garswood?

Sorry if this sounds a daft question, as some people may mistake the two types of wiring!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I take it this is in addition to the return wiring already in place around Bryn and Garswood?
Sorry if this sounds a daft question, as some people may mistake the two types of wiring!

To clarify, there's a lot of return wire up on both sides of the track from a mile east of Bryn to Carr Mill Viaduct west of Garswood (with a few odd gaps under bridges).
Also a short stretch on one line east of Prescot. All this is on the lineside masts (not over the track).
There are also two new stretches of catenary over the Up line, east of Bryn and west of Garswood.
These are attached to the horizontal arms, but there is no contact wire yet attached to the droppers.
The wiring train was at Edge Hill ready for the next lot.

I didn't see anything significantly new on the main line, although there are several lightweight signal posts lying in the cess between Roby and Edge Hill.
There's a pile of new sleepers south of the track west of Roby, and signs of recent relaying of the Down line in that area.
The new "90mph" sign on the Up is adjacent to Huyton Quarry.
Makes a nice change to charge through Rainhill at 90mph, although the 185s make light work of it.

 

[DJH1971]

To clarify, there's a lot of return wire up on both sides of the track from a mile east of Bryn to Carr Mill Viaduct west of Garswood (with a few odd gaps under bridges).
Also a short stretch on one line east of Prescot. All this is on the lineside masts (not over the track).
There are also two new stretches of catenary over the Up line, east of Bryn and west of Garswood.
These are attached to the horizontal arms, but there is no contact wire yet attached to the droppers.
The wiring train was at Edge Hill ready for the next lot.

I didn't see anything significantly new on the main line, although there are several lightweight signal posts lying in the cess between Roby and Edge Hill.
There's a pile of new sleepers south of the track west of Roby, and signs of recent relaying of the Down line in that area.
The new "90mph" sign on the Up is adjacent to Huyton Quarry.
Makes a nice change to charge through Rainhill at 90mph, although the 185s make light work of it.

Brilliant news!

 

[PDG1949]

Hi Folks,

First of all, hello from a new member based in St. Helens.

The listed building planning submission notice for the Sankey Valley Viaduct recently appeared in the local St. Helens Star newspaper and is on the local council's website -

http://llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=100656

The 'Images' section makes for interesting reading. Final date for public comments is 05/06/14 and then we have to wait for the decision !

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hi Folks,
First of all, hello from a new member based in St. Helens.
The listed building planning submission notice for the Sankey Valley Viaduct recently appeared in the local St. Helens Star newspaper and is on the local council's website -
http://llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=100656
The 'Images' section makes for interesting reading. Final date for public comments is 05/06/14 and then we have to wait for the decision !

That's a great first post, welcome to the forum.
It gives a good insight into the problems of wiring historic structures.
It's fascinating that the drawings for the wiring of Royal Border Bridge at Berwick (ECML) from 1987 are being used as examples.
Some of the drawings show one mast per pier (ie 9 masts), but some show a mast per 3 piers (ie 3 masts).
I hope we get the latter. Otherwise the design looks similar to that for Castlefield Viaduct in Manchester.
The visualisations are really good.
The local letters are quite funny really - can you please not bore into that nice stonework; and by the way please clean it of graffiti while you are at it!

 

[swt_passenger]

That's a great first post, welcome to the forum.
It gives a good insight into the problems of wiring historic structures.
It's fascinating that the drawings for the wiring of Royal Border Bridge at Berwick (ECML) from 1987 are being used as examples.
Some of the drawings show one mast per pier (ie 9 masts), but some show a mast per 3 piers (ie 3 masts).
I hope we get the latter. Otherwise the design looks similar to that for Castlefield Viaduct in Manchester.

The 'design and access statement' seems to confirm that the option of a mast every third pier has been decided upon.

However, although there are nine arches, there are ten piers, and therefore 4 sets of masts. (This is sometimes known as the 'fence post problem'.)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The 'design and access statement' seems to confirm that the option of a mast every third pier has been decided upon.
However, although there are nine arches, there are ten piers, and therefore 4 sets of masts. (This is sometimes known as the 'fence post problem'.)

Indeed . It's also why we live in the 21st century and not the 20th!

 

[snowball]

I'm surprised by their choice of words. I would have said there are ten supports, of which eight are piers and two are abutments.

 

[Dunc108]

Electrification masts up at Deal St getting close to Manchester Victoria!

 

[DJH1971]

Electrification masts up at Deal St getting close to Manchester Victoria!

What a lovely sight!

I wonder how much more wiring on Phase 2 is now in place at this time?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What a lovely sight!
I wonder how much more wiring on Phase 2 is now in place at this time?

A run round today revealed no new wiring on the Wigan line in the last week or so.
Attention seems to have switched to the main line, where the first masts have gone up east of Huyton Jn, past Whiston towards Rainhill.
There are new bases installed east of Sankey Viaduct on the south side of the line, towards Earlestown.
There are many drums of cable stockpiled at Edge Hill, some of it helpfully marked "Catenary".
The rock cutting at Thatto Heath has gained some fixings for OHLE kit at a high level, avoiding the need for bases/masts.

I'm not sure the masts around Salford Central are all that lovely.
No doubt because of the viaducts they are very thick and heavy, and sit on massive extended layered pancake bases (or is "toadstool" a better simile?).
The final set of these new bases is taking shape just west of Victoria.
It also seems they will wire the whole layout from Victoria through Salford Central (both LNWR and L&Y lines), until just west of the viaduct split towards Ordsall Lane.

 

[PDG1949]

Here's how to grow your own mast base... Taken this afternoon immediately north of Corporation St. Bridge by St. Helens Central. The wheelbarrow-full of cement is just out of shot below the pic !

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Here's how to grow your own mast base... Taken this afternoon immediately north of Corporation St. Bridge by St. Helens Central. The wheelbarrow-full of cement is just out of shot below the pic !

I love the "toilet seat" ring they use to align the mast bolts in the cement.
They are discarded after use, and are a tell-tale sign of "electrification in progress".
There are some new ones on the WCML at Springs Branch, and at Edge Hill, no doubt where the new wiring will be spliced into the old.

 

[PDG1949]

Talking about the WCML, there appears to be a new switching site just to the left after the turnout at Ince Moss towards Wigan from Liverpool . Would this be intended for the northern end of the Huyton-Wigan run, just part of the WCML power upgrade or both ?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Talking about the WCML, there appears to be a new switching site just to the left after the turnout at Ince Moss towards Wigan from Liverpool . Would this be intended for the northern end of the Huyton-Wigan run, just part of the WCML power upgrade or both ?

Both I think.
It's the same type of ABB kit installed at Newton-le-Willows and although it is on the L&M line I'm pretty sure it feeds the WCML below as well.
Probably part of the general WCML power supply upgrade which implements autotransformer operation between Whitmore (Staffs) and Great Strickland (Cumbria).
It's for the NW electrics and Stafford upgrade as well.

 

[WatcherZero]

There is a backup grid connection being built on the Chat Moss line too, will kick in if primary connection fails.

 

[DJH1971]

And it appears SkyscraperCity is back up and running!

 

[snowball]

And it appears SkyscraperCity is back up and running!

Different people have had different experiences with it. Everyone's had problems but not all at the same time. I couldn't use it from mid-morning Saturday to mid-morning Monday. Next time I tried to use it was Monday evening and it seemed OK, but I've had shorter episodes of difficulty since then.

 

[DJH1971]

Different people have had different experiences with it. Everyone's had problems but not all at the same time. I couldn't use it from mid-morning Saturday to mid-morning Monday. Next time I tried to use it was Monday evening and it seemed OK, but I've had shorter episodes of difficulty since then.

I've experienced that too from time to time. The site seems to have a bit of a stability problem. Also managed to access it today from my smartphone.

 

[WatcherZero]

Suffers denial of service attacks from time to time, the fate of being one of the largest forums on the internet with international users, someones always angry at someone :P

 

[DavidL]

There is now pickup/contact wire - if either is the correct term - hung from the previously reported catenary in the Garswood area. It's still only above the Wigan-bound line and has been there a couple of days, but haven't seen it reported so thought I would do so

 

[DJH1971]

There is now pickup/contact wire - if either is the correct term - hung from the previously reported catenary in the Garswood area. It's still only above the Wigan-bound line and has been there a couple of days, but haven't seen it reported so thought I would do so

Still progress all the same.

I actually did see the return wires the other day in place to the east of Carr Mill, just before the bridge crossing the East Lancs road.

 

[8A Rail]

Just a quickie, a few masts have now appeared around the Whiston Station area.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

There is now pickup/contact wire - hung from the previously reported catenary in the Garswood area. It's still only above the Wigan-bound line ---

Still progress all the same.

Just a quickie, a few masts have now appeared around the Whiston Station area.

Excellent and agreed

 

[Joseph_Locke]

There is now pickup/contact wire - if either is the correct term

The one the pantograph touches is the contact wire, the one directly above is the catenary wire and the one off to one side of the track is either the return conductor (if on small insulators with no rakes beneath) or the autotransformer return (if on longer insulators with rakes beneath).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

And just for your info, with the wires in tension with counterbalance weights and the heat and cold changes, there would be really bad CREEP. However, they alloy the copper with a small amount of Cadmium to improve the Creep resistance.

 

[Llama]

What are the rakes for, arc gaps?