Manchester Metrolink - Speculative ideas on how to improve it?

[dodecahedron67]

I believe the best numbering system would be give each line a number 1-9 based on their outer termini, geographically clockwise, with Bury-Altrincham as 1, Rochdale-East Didsbury as 2 etc.

Short starters would get an additional number based on where they were terminating. A tram from East Didsbury to Shaw would be the 12 for example, with 1 denoting the primary turn short point, 2 denoting the secondary, etc
The Ashton Branch would have the 3 Ashton - Eccles and the 13 Etihad - Media City
This would allow for disruption if anyone saw a tram ending in 3 they would know it would end up somewhere along the Ashton branch (or Eccles)

Full numbering:
1 Bury - Altrincham
11 Bury - Piccadilly
21 Piccadilly - Altrincham
2 Rochdale - East Didsbury
12 Shaw - East Didsbury
3 Ashton - Eccles
13 Etihad - MediaCity
4 Airport - Victoria
5 Trafford Centre - Cornbrook

9 would be used as a prefix for special event shuttles, like a 93 would be a shuttle to the City ground, a 91/921 to Old Trafford from Bury/Piccadilly

 

[edwin_m]

I believe the best numbering system would be give each line a number 1-9 based on their outer termini, geographically clockwise, with Bury-Altrincham as 1, Rochdale-East Didsbury as 2 etc.

Short starters would get an additional number based on where they were terminating. A tram from East Didsbury to Shaw would be the 12 for example, with 1 denoting the primary turn short point, 2 denoting the secondary, etc
The Ashton Branch would have the 3 Ashton - Eccles and the 13 Etihad - Media City
This would allow for disruption if anyone saw a tram ending in 3 they would know it would end up somewhere along the Ashton branch (or Eccles)

Full numbering:
1 Bury - Altrincham
11 Bury - Piccadilly
21 Piccadilly - Altrincham
2 Rochdale - East Didsbury
12 Shaw - East Didsbury
3 Ashton - Eccles
13 Etihad - MediaCity
4 Airport - Victoria
5 Trafford Centre - Cornbrook

9 would be used as a prefix for special event shuttles, like a 93 would be a shuttle to the City ground, a 91/921 to Old Trafford from Bury/Piccadilly

That would start clashing with bus routes. Maybe just get the Bee Network to renumber whichever of 1 to 9 it currently, and add a letter if it's a short working - A/B/C for "normal" and X for a destination not normally used. Then people know the tram is going at least some of the way to where they want to be, and they know which part of the map to check if they aren't sure whether it goes as far as their stop.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Should such a matter that has suddenly appeared upon this thread without any reference whatsoever to anything officially stated be the subject of a new thread on the "Speculation" forum?

That would start clashing with bus routes. Maybe just get the Bee Network to renumber whichever of 1 to 9 it currently, and add a letter if it's a short working - A/B/C for "normal" and X for a destination not normally used. Then people know the tram is going at least some of the way to where they want to be, and they know which part of the map to check if they aren't sure whether it goes as far as their stop.

Why on earth should existing bus route numbers be changed just so that some hypothetically inspired idea can be justified?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Why on earth should existing bus route numbers be changed just so that some hypothetically inspired idea can be justified?

Indeed. The sayings 'Tail wagging the dog' and 'a solution in search of a problem' would both seem to apply here.

 

[Tetchytyke]

You go to any major European city and the tram routes are numbered in the same sequence as the bus routes, so you don’t have a duplication between the tram numbers and the bus numbers.

The current way of working was fine in 1992 when the Metrolink was one line, but it’s now such a big system that it’s starting to not really work any more.

I do know Manchester and I do know where I’m going but the Eccles line closure threw me last year. All the trams were going to Weaste, and my first reaction was “where the **** is Weaste?”

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You go to any major European city and the tram routes are numbered in the same sequence as the bus routes, so you don’t have a duplication between the tram numbers and the bus numbers.

The current way of working was fine in 1992 when the Metrolink was one line, but it’s now such a big system that it’s starting to not really work any more.

I do know Manchester and I do know where I’m going but the Eccles line closure threw me last year. All the trams were going to Weaste, and my first reaction was “where the **** is Weaste?”

Weaste is quite well-known as a part of Salford, once having both a railway station on the Manchester to Liverpool line and a big bus depot. I note that your location is shown as the Isle of Man, so conversely, I too would be lost if someone asked me the best way to Ballasalla or The Cronk..

I do note that European tram operations are cited on some thread postings, but does anyone on this thread really believe that such overseas matters are taken into consideration by the "head honchos" of TfGM?

 

[507 001]

but it’s now such a big system that it’s starting to not really work any more.

Says who?

 

[daodao]

Weaste is quite well-known as a part of Salford, once having both a railway station on the Manchester to Liverpool line and a big bus depot.

The former bus depot at Weaste was originally a Salford Corporation tram depot, and there is (or at least was) a short section of tram line still extant outside the depot.

You go to any major European city and the tram routes are numbered in the same sequence as the bus routes, so you don’t have a duplication between the tram numbers and the bus numbers.

Tallinn has motor bus, tram and trolleybus routes 1, 3 and 4 for each mode. Lyon has number overlapping of many metro, motor bus, tram and trolleybus routes, including numbers 1-3. Many Russian cities, including Leningrad/St Petersburg, have overlapping numbers for many metro, motor bus, tram and trolleybus routes.

On the subject of numbering Manchester's new tram routes, why not resurrect former tram numbers, for example Piccadilly-Altrincham could become route 47 and Ashton-Piccadilly route 26? The latter might cause confusion with parallel bus (former trolleybus) route 216, which was originally of course tram (and later trolleybus) route 26, albeit running to Stevenson Square.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the subject of numbering Manchester's new tram routes, why not resurrect former tram numbers, for example Piccadilly-Altrincham could become route 47 and Ashton-Piccadilly route 26? The latter might cause confusion with parallel bus (former trolleybus) route 216, which was originally of course tram (and later trolleybus) route 26, albeit running to Stevenson Square.

I think that past usage of historical tram route numbers will be unknown to the vast majority of current Metrolink users, especially the younger ones, who have had years experiencing the status quo, with information boards on platforms and destinations being shown on the tram unit display screens.

With regards the mention of colours of display that has been mentioned, I have the feeling that if the matter was put to Mayor Burnham, he would be all for it, but with one proviso....the only colour allowed would be yellow,

 

[RAPC]

What is the problem we're trying to solve here? I think many of my fellow Mancunians and I are perfectly capable of seeing a destination and knowing where it goes.

Whereas trying to teach regulars and visitors to the city a series of interchangeable route numbers seems rather optimistic and unnecessary.

 

[HSTEd]

I can see an argument for route numbers that can be used in the same way as bus numbers.

The obvious way is just to assign a block of bus route numbers to the tram.
There are only three bus routes using a T prefix so you could take those, although probably better to get rid of prefixes entirely if possible.

Ideally you would take enough numbers to give every route variation it's own.

Why on earth should existing bus route numbers be changed just so that some hypothetically inspired idea can be justified?

Bus numbering in Greater Manchester is a colossal mess anyway, it probably needs redoing from the ground up!

Bus number duplications (although fewer than their used to be), completely illogical and jumbled route number grouping etc etc.
If we're going to do this, we might as well just do it in one uniform scheme, including tram and even local rail services.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Bus number duplications, completely illogical and jumbled route number grouping etc etc.
If we're going to do this, we might as well just do it in one uniform scheme, including tram and even local rail services.

I understand that the matter of bus number duplications is already in the process of being addressed. The vast majority of the travelling public do not seem to be as worried about matters such as you mention and in Greater Manchester, will be unaware of what happerns in other large adjacent conurbations, let alone those overseas ones that tend to crop up like the "proverbial bad penny" in thread discussions such as this.

 

[Andyh82]

I believe the best numbering system would be give each line a number 1-9 based on their outer termini, geographically clockwise, with Bury-Altrincham as 1, Rochdale-East Didsbury as 2 etc.

Short starters would get an additional number based on where they were terminating. A tram from East Didsbury to Shaw would be the 12 for example, with 1 denoting the primary turn short point, 2 denoting the secondary, etc
The Ashton Branch would have the 3 Ashton - Eccles and the 13 Etihad - Media City
This would allow for disruption if anyone saw a tram ending in 3 they would know it would end up somewhere along the Ashton branch (or Eccles)

Full numbering:
1 Bury - Altrincham
11 Bury - Piccadilly
21 Piccadilly - Altrincham
2 Rochdale - East Didsbury
12 Shaw - East Didsbury
3 Ashton - Eccles
13 Etihad - MediaCity
4 Airport - Victoria
5 Trafford Centre - Cornbrook

9 would be used as a prefix for special event shuttles, like a 93 would be a shuttle to the City ground, a 91/921 to Old Trafford from Bury/Piccadilly

That seems pretty complicated

I’d just number the services 1 to 9 to give an added bit of clarity on top if the current line colours

1 Bury to Piccadilly
2 Bury to Altrincham
3 Altrincham to Piccadilly
4 Eccles to Ashton
5 MediaCity to Etihad
6 Airport to Victoria
7 Trafford Centre to Deansgate
8 Rochdale to E Didsbury via E Sq
9 Shaw to E Didsbury via E Sq

Buses no 7 & 8 would be renumbered as would the FreeBuses around the City

 

[cool110]

If you want to avoid renumbering or duplicating buses then going back to the letters would work, just put them in the key next to the line colours rather than that mess they had last time.

 

[507 001]

This is all a solution looking for a problem.

 

[markwcel]

We only visit once or twice a month and find the current maps adequate to find our way around

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This is all a solution looking for a problem.

Indeed you are so correct in what you say.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Says who?

Those who are familiar with the network know where the trams go. That should be obvious.

But trying to explain it to people who aren’t familiar with the network is awful. It wouldn’t be so bad if the colour coding you see on Google/Citymapper/etc translated into real life. Data isn’t the plural of anecdote and all that, but trying to explain to my wife how to get to the Trafford Centre (“you want a tram that says East Didsbury or Eccles or the Airport or Altrincham, but maybe also Trafford Bar or Weaste or MediaCityUK, then you want to change at Deansgate”) isn’t exactly what you’d describe as user friendly. She’s not daft and she struggled.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just trying to divide fact from unbridled fantasy and being in the real world, when, if ever, have TfGM ever made an official statement regarding the numbering, lettering or colour coding of the Metrolink system? It is now many a long year sine this system came into being.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Completely agree that it is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist

 

[Bletchleyite]

Publish the timetable. It's not like it doesn't exist - not doing so wastes up to 12 minutes of each passenger's time.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Publish the timetable. It's not like it doesn't exist - not doing so wastes up to 12 minutes of each passenger's time.

Surely the PID's on the platforms give enough information to those already there.

 

[507 001]

Those who are familiar with the network know where the trams go. That should be obvious.

But trying to explain it to people who aren’t familiar with the network is awful. It wouldn’t be so bad if the colour coding you see on Google/Citymapper/etc translated into real life. Data isn’t the plural of anecdote and all that, but trying to explain to my wife how to get to the Trafford Centre (“you want a tram that says East Didsbury or Eccles or the Airport or Altrincham, but maybe also Trafford Bar or Weaste or MediaCityUK, then you want to change at Deansgate”) isn’t exactly what you’d describe as user friendly. She’s not daft and she struggled.

I’ve worked on the system many years. I’ve never found it difficult to explain to people how to get somewhere.

 

[cool110]

This is all a solution looking for a problem.

The problem is that the current TfGM journey planner is crap. That just gives you the line colours which are useless without also having the map, defeating the entire point of a journey planner.

 

[507 001]

The problem is that the current TfGM journey planner is crap. That just gives you the line colours which are useless without also having the map, defeating the entire point of a journey planner.

Aye, that’s a very fair comment. We have all been pretty annoyed by the removal of the old Metrolink app too, we all used it a lot. The bee network one is useless.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Aye, that’s a very fair comment. We have all been pretty annoyed by the removal of the old Metrolink app too, we all used it a lot. The bee network one is useless.

Do you think that the Bee Network would inwardly be fully aware of that fact, but would never own up to the fact in public?

 

[507 001]

Do you think that the Bee Network would inwardly be fully aware of that fact, but would never own up to the fact in public?

I couldn’t say for sure. I’d like to think we’ll see a dedicated app for Metrolink return at some point but who knows.

 

[Mothball]

The easiest argument for me for line numbers is to an unfamiliar map like this one from Gothenburg. Take two random stops and plot out how you would take the route. What sticks in your mind more/would provide you with more confidence, the terminal station or the route number?
In the time its taken me to go from the map to this post I can't remember the long, strange place names ive just read for the first time, but can tell you it was a line 7 and a 2.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I couldn’t say for sure. I’d like to think we’ll see a dedicated app for Metrolink return at some point but who knows.

I think it'd be better to improve the Bee app rather than having dedicated modal ones, assuming TfGM do want to pursue full integration as in my view they should.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The problem is that the current TfGM journey planner is crap.

I’d agree with that. I’m touristing in Manchester for a couple of days and I’m surprised how the Bee app doesn’t seem to want me to catch a tram. Citymapper is giving much more sensible results.

I still think route numbers or colours are needed though. Trying to explain which tram to catch to a Chinese student this afternoon was painful.