That sort of stuff tends to be pretty negligible in the context of the whole network's revenue. It would need to have more than a handfulof folk doing it to have any marked effect.
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Manchester Recovery Taskforce (timetable) consultation
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That sort of stuff tends to be pretty negligible in the context of the whole network's revenue. It would need to have more than a handfulof folk doing it to have any marked effect.
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Which reminds me that Holyhead-Chester-Birmingham was diverted via Shrewsbury by ATW, extending journey times by 30 minutes, without any serious consultation that I recall.
Prior to privatisation there was precisely zero Cardiff-North Wales services.
A single Cardiff-Crewe-Holyhead (via Llandudno) 158 was started by Wales & West at some point before ATW came in.
Now it's apparently (via Wrexham) the backbone of the TfW network.
Without wishing to state the obvious they are called Transport for *Wales*...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
"Transport for the Welsh Government" perhaps. The North Wales to Cardiff demand isn't massive. North Wales, at least east of Llandudno, is de-facto a suburb of Liverpool/Manchester/Chester.
Although the franchise is officially the Wales & Borders one with Chester, Shrewsbury and Hereford being key hubs for TfW services.
Llandudno
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Bit harsh, but they are certainly the best places to go for a night out...!
Bevan Price
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That was partly a political decision, by people who think that people should only need to travel to/from Welsh destinations.
sjm77
Member
....by popping back into England a few times on the way!
And forgetting that their train service is supposed to benefit people living on the 'other side' of the border, Hence the franchise being called Wales & Borders. IMHO the Shrewsbury-Crewe service should be transferred to West Midlands Trains as a continuation of their New Street-Shrewsbury service as there is (or was pre-Covid) a significant amount of commuting between Telford and Wem/Whitchurch - journeys for which there is no other public transport option as what few buses there are going north of Telford stop before the borough boundary
Purple Orange
On Moderation
Same with Manchester to North Wales. The route is primarily a focus for the Manchester to Chester market, followed by a run through North Wales. Much like a London to Aberdeen service is really focussed on the London to Edinburgh market, with the run up to Aberdeen secondary in importance to the overall service, which point-to-point cant compete with air.
Iliketrains123
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Post-devolution many Senedd members would want to use such a service.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
"Many"?
There can't be more than about 50 of them all told in North Wales.
"Gerald" (when it ran) was hardly bursting with politicos, or anyone really north of Hereford.
There is a public sector demand (education, health, local government, planning etc) for through services, but the regular economy (and tourism) is skewed east-west not north-south.
Llandudno
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There is also a very heavily subsidised air service between Anglesey and Cardiff which presumably is in the main for the benefit of Senedd members...
Old Yard Dog
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In recent years, it has been quicker and more comfortable to travel from Chester to Manchester changing at Crewe than to travel on the supposedly direct line via Northwich. Virgin even used to offer special discounted fares to encourage this. Crewe is also a valid route with "any permitted" tickets.
I had started to use the Crewe route quite regularly when the Warrington trains were either cancelled due to engineering works or overcrowded when they were actually running. There was something not quite right about needing four trains to get from Ellesmere Port to Manchester but this became necessary on a number of weekends when the lines from Liverpool were also suffering from engineering works.
I had started to use the Crewe route quite regularly when the Warrington trains were either cancelled due to engineering works or overcrowded when they were actually running. There was something not quite right about needing four trains to get from Ellesmere Port to Manchester but this became necessary on a number of weekends when the lines from Liverpool were also suffering from engineering works.
Llandudno
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It can be quicker at times to change at Crewe when travelling from north Wales to Manchester, the platforms at Crewe towards Manchester are usually adjacent, but not so convenient when travelling from Manchester.
The other issue is when you get to Crewe the next train to Manchester maybe an already crowded TfW 2 Coach train from Milford Haven!
sjm77
Member
That's very generous! The Senedd has 60 members and as we know ~75% of the population is in South Wales
5-car only planned for south Wales to Manchester - we don't know how many cars TfW planned to use on north Wales to Manchester.
Too short yes, but the best legroom on any UK train probably. The 175s are fairly high-quality units, just a shame they don't have unit end gangways and there aren't more of them.
7 constituency and 4 regional members (for a total of 11 members of the Senedd) representing the north Wales coast I believe.
Salford Crescent is one platform, but it's a very very narrow & often very crowded platform. Pushing that station even more as an interchange could be a recipe for disaster at peak times.
Also, am I right in inferring that options A & C would see an end to any trains from the east terminating in the remaining bays at Vic?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It would if passenger volumes from Southport were huge. They are not.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Noting the various services that are served by Salford Crescent, I wonder why you have chosen the Southport service.
It's vastly better now the platform buildings have been removed, and the steps have moved further on the platform, which spreads the passengers more (with longer trains)
Killingworth
Established Member
Only time I've travelled to Southport from Sheffield I was routed to change at Piccadilly 13/14 and Salford Crescent. Equally draughty, but at least Piccadilly has the main concourse in which to take refuge!
NorthWestRover
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I was there yesterday. It's OK for a quick change, making it a major interchange would clearly be problematic with the current layout/facilities.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Because it has the lowest usage of all the Castlefield services that call there.
Greybeard33
Established Member
Bolton might be a better interchange station than Salford Crescent for Southport - Castlefield passengers. Also a same platform change, and the same services will call at both stations.
You are correct that only Option B makes use of the bay Platforms 1 & 2 at Victoria. Both the Leeds via Bradford services terminate there in Option B, whereas in Option A they run through to Chester and Wigan, or both to Chester in Option C.
Option B has the TPE Newcastle service terminating at Victoria, as does Option C in the peaks, but the TPE Novas are too long to use the bays. Presumably they will terminate in Platform 3 and lay over in the reversing siding west of the station.
What meeting is this ? What's changed it from plan B to B+ ? Thanks for the info
Been known for a while that they were coming to a compromise. Usual areas won't be happy (S Yorks and Southport) but it's making the best of a poor situation.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It's on Twitter, and includes an all day Southport-Oxford Road service so I can't see much objection there.
I still think it won't be reliable and that it is necessary to go below 10tphpd to make it work, ideally down to 8.
Purple Orange
On Moderation
A B+ version eh... how does that vary from the original B version?
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