Mandatory seat reservations

[To the trains]

As I'm sure lots of you know, in some countries like France and Italy, allocated seats are required on intercity and high speed trains. I'd rather use that system on trains in the UK as it would mean everyone knows they have a seat and that would just make things easier and avoid fighting and fussing. To get around the lack of flexibility, you could allow passengers with anytime and off peak tickets to change their reservation to a different train that day. What do you all think of implementing a system of required reservations for long distance trains?

 

[skyhigh]

What happens when a train is cancelled and the remainder of trains that day are fully booked?

How do you stop someone buying an Anytime Single if no trains have availability left that day?

What would you do on busy days where the total number of passengers travelling exceed the number of seats provided that day (look at LNER out of King's Cross around Christmas, Easter or after football games for examples). Would you make them all go by road instead and miss out on that ticket revenue?

 

[Falcon1200]

What do you all think of implementing a system of required reservations for long distance trains?

No, no and thrice no ! Because it does away with a major advantage of rail over other modes, ie flexibility and the ability to immediately change travel plans, and because long distance trains also cover short journey legs for which compulsory reservation would be ludicrous, eg Avanti between Coventry/Birmingham International/New St or LNER between Leeds and Wakefield Westgate. The present system of making reservations available, but not compulsory, and always having a number of unreservable seats, is the best way.

 

[yorkie]

As I'm sure lots of you know, in some countries like France and Italy, allocated seats are required on intercity and high speed trains. I'd rather use that system on trains in the UK as it would mean everyone knows they have a seat and that would just make things easier and avoid fighting and fussing. To get around the lack of flexibility, you could allow passengers with anytime and off peak tickets to change their reservation to a different train that day. What do you all think of implementing a system of required reservations for long distance trains?

Definitely not. It would turn the railway into something akin to an airline.

Do you propose to do this with services provided by Northern, TPE etc?

Also during disruption shouldn't people be disrupted to an absolute minimum rather than force them to re-book? Sometimes you don't know if you are going to make a connection until you are on it.

 

[Magdalia]

Definitely not. It would turn the railway into something akin to an airline.

Long distance rail travel is already far too much like air travel. I blame this on too many people being in thrall to the bearded one.

No, no and thrice no ! Because it does away with a major advantage of rail over other modes, ie flexibility and the ability to immediately change travel plans

Absolutely. This should be a major selling point for rail travel and is hugely important for some people with both physical and mental health issues.

I have almost given up on long distance rail travel. What used to be a pleasure is now usually a stressful experience.

 

[PeterC]

My only thought is that people taking a punt on having to stand should get the cheap tickets and those paying full fare should have their seats guaranteed.

 

[London Trains]

No no definitely no, I would go completely the opposite way and totally ban all seat reservations from existing in Great Britain (apart from sleepers, Eurostar and any future services through the Channel Tunnel).

 

[Hadders]

Compulsory reservations is totally infeasible. Some train companies tried to move this way during covid restrictions and it has been abandoned.

There have been various threads about it on this forum.

 

[edwin_m]

My only thought is that people taking a punt on having to stand should get the cheap tickets and those paying full fare should have their seats guaranteed.

There's some moral logic to that. But since the full fare tickets include flexibility to travel on different trains, it's difficult to see how it could be achieved in practice.

On the general principle: in a few weeks time I have a business trip that involves landing at Heathrow after an mid-haul overnight flight that isn't long enough to get a good sleep. It's on expenses so I can get a flexible ticket, but if reservations were mandatory I'd have to second-guess which train I'd make at St Pancras, probably while on the Tube from Paddington with intermittent phone reception to access whatever system there was to change it. The alternative would be to book a train much later than I expect to arrive to allow for flight delays, and hang around in a half-asleep state at St Pancras if the flight is less late than I assumed. But if I do that I might as well just get a much cheaper Advance and the railway has lost the extra revenue.

 

[yorkie]

My only thought is that people taking a punt on having to stand should get the cheap tickets and those paying full fare should have their seats guaranteed.

How would you achieve that?

 

[Jim the Jim]

People moan now about last-minute emergency trips over long distances often costing an arm and a leg due to the fares structure, but that's nothing to what you'd get if journeys were available at all at certain times due to all being booked up in advance.

 

[Mikw]

No to seat reservations. They slow up boarding and cause aggro

 

[PeterC]

How would you achieve that?

Did you really think that I was 100% serious?

Actually when I travelled by TGV about 40 years ago I simply obtained a reservation for the next available train from the machine at Gare du Nord. No big deal at all

British Railways managed to offer "limited" trains without even that level of technology.

People moan now about last-minute emergency trips over long distances often costing an arm and a leg due to the fares structure, but that's nothing to what you'd get if journeys were available at all at certain times due to all being booked up in advance.

No different to flights being fully booked.

 

[Hadders]

One of the advantages of rail travel is flexibility. Let’s assume there’s a simple way to book and amend seat reservations. How would you deal with the following:

1. I want to make a short local journey between Warrington Bank Quay and Wigan North Western. The local service is provided by an inter-city operator who require reservations. Should I be forced to plan ahead and make a reservation for such a short local journey?

2. I’m out for a walk with some friends and am travelling on a flexible ticket as we don’t know exactly how long the walk will take place. We’ve booked seats on the train we think we’ll be able to make for our journey home but the walk takes longer than anticipated and we miss our train. All the trains for the rest of the day are fully booked. What happens?

3. I’m making a journey from Sandy to Leeds. This involves taking a Thameslink train from Sandy to Peterborough (a ‘local’ service so presumably reservation not needed). At Peterborough I change to LNER where reservations are required. The Thameslink train is late and I arrive too late to make the train at Peterborough. The system says all the trains for the rest of the day are fully booked but the next train arrives and there are loads of empty seats as there has been disruption and some passengers have missed their trains at earlier stops. What happens?

4. A fully reserved train is cancelled due to a staff shortage. All the trains for the rest of the day are fully reserved. What happens?

5. There is massive disruption due to overhead line damage. Lots of trains are cancelled and those that are operating near no resemblance to the timetable. What happens?

Compulsory reservations sound great but in the real world they are totally impractical and won’t work on the railway in Britain.

 

[43301]

As I'm sure lots of you know, in some countries like France and Italy, allocated seats are required on intercity and high speed trains. I'd rather use that system on trains in the UK as it would mean everyone knows they have a seat and that would just make things easier and avoid fighting and fussing. To get around the lack of flexibility, you could allow passengers with anytime and off peak tickets to change their reservation to a different train that day. What do you all think of implementing a system of required reservations for long distance trains?

It simply could not work in this country as we do not have separate 'intercity' trains - they all also act as local services on various parts of their route.

 

[ChrisC]

Compulsory reservations is totally infeasible. Some train companies tried to move this way during covid restrictions and it has been abandoned.

There have been various threads about it on this forum.

Completely agree. During covid restrictions I just didn’t bother travelling on LNER and XC trains because of their compulsory reservations. If I could I travelled using alternative routes and TOCs not insisting on compulsory reservations. In some circumstances I just didn’t bother making the journey or mainly I used my car far more than I ever have done before. I know many people here said the system of reserving seats was very simple but for many of the journeys I do on impulse I couldn’t be bothered with it all.

 

[miklcct]

Absolutely no.

I will immediately buy a car if the railway rolls out such scheme on the routes I use. With the current model, I am happy to buy off-peak tickets for flexibility that basically guarantees me to board the first train to the destination I want to go using the most direct route.

 

[david1212]

NO !!!

For tickets bought in advance at the full walk up fare for the day and time then for longer journeys fine with a limit of 50% of the train capacity reservable. Operators ought to be able to judge their busiest and quietest services and publicise this so passengers can make an informed decision when / if to travel.

For discounted tickets no option for reservation. Currently you have the totally unfair situation where a traveller on an anytime ticket ends up having to stand whilst the holder of the cheapest advance has a guaranteed seat.

 

[supervc-10]

I don't think compulsory reservations are a good idea, but being able to make a reservation for your regular anytime ticket up until a few minutes before the train leaves is a very good idea. That's easy enough when buying the tickets- but there needs to be a way of reserving a seat for your return journey that's not a hassle. I know if you pre-book a regular non-advance ticket you can get this, but there should be a way of easily getting a reservation on the day, maybe through the TOC's app.

 

[Mikw]

I had seat reservations on two trains today.

The first one, as always, someone was in my seat, pretending to be asleep. Luckily there another reserved seat that someone hadn't turned up for a little way down the coach so took that instead.

The second service was made of 2 222's joined up to make a ten coach train. The carriage numbers weren't displayed on the outside. which led to people getting on blindly, walking up and down looking for thier seat reservations and even getting off at stops, running down the platform and checking out the other end of the two joined up trains.

Total chaos. Would've been better with non reserved seating.

 

[DelayRepay]

I think I'd go the other way, and scrap them.

There's an argument for keeping them in First Class, and maybe having one reservable coach in Standard, but otherwise I think they cause more problems than they solve. At the very least I would move away from the current position where people booking tickets online end up with reservations by default. Advance tickets could be issued as counted places, like the TOCs who offer advances but don't have reserved seats do.

 

[david1212]

I don't think compulsory reservations are a good idea, but being able to make a reservation for your regular anytime ticket up until a few minutes before the train leaves is a very good idea. That's easy enough when buying the tickets- but there needs to be a way of reserving a seat for your return journey that's not a hassle. I know if you pre-book a regular non-advance ticket you can get this, but there should be a way of easily getting a reservation on the day, maybe through the TOC's app.

With this you get the situation where when people join the train they sit in a seat that is unreserved but then becomes reserved.

So long as the reservable allocation is not all booked the system has to have a cut off say 30 minutes before departure from the starting point. In theory being able to reserve a seat that also has a reservation but will be vacated at your joining station would work but in reality inevitably issues.

..... The second service was made of 2 222's joined up to make a ten coach train. The carriage numbers weren't displayed on the outside. which led to people getting on blindly, walking up and down looking for thier seat reservations and even getting off at stops, running down the platform and checking out the other end of the two joined up trains.

Total chaos. Would've been better with non reserved seating.

The issue here is not reservations but the system not being set up before the doors unlocked to passengers at the stating point. With electronic displays there really is no excuse.
XC end up with illogical lettering e.g. for a 9 car set something like (F-C-B-A)+(M-K-J-H-G)

 

[Bletchleyite]

My only thought is that people taking a punt on having to stand should get the cheap tickets and those paying full fare should have their seats guaranteed.

Pre COVID TfW were actually doing that - counted places for Advances, (optional) reservations for walk ups.

I don't think compulsory reservations are a good idea, but being able to make a reservation for your regular anytime ticket up until a few minutes before the train leaves is a very good idea. That's easy enough when buying the tickets- but there needs to be a way of reserving a seat for your return journey that's not a hassle. I know if you pre-book a regular non-advance ticket you can get this, but there should be a way of easily getting a reservation on the day, maybe through the TOC's app.

The way to do this is to have marked reserved and unreserved coaches/areas rather than marking individual reservations.

 

[miklcct]

So long as the reservable allocation is not all booked the system has to have a cut off say 30 minutes before departure from the starting point. In theory being able to reserve a seat that also has a reservation but will be vacated at your joining station would work but in reality inevitably issues.

The cut off by CrossCountry is 10 minutes before the departure from the joining station. Also the seats mention that an unreserved seat may be reserved further down the journey.

However, I wonder the illogical lettering which have made me entered the wrong coach when I joined the train at the origin station.

 

[david1212]

The cut off by CrossCountry is 10 minutes before the departure from the joining station. Also the seats mention that an unreserved seat may be reserved further down the journey.

However, I wonder the illogical lettering which have made me entered the wrong coach when I joined the train at the origin station.

IMO the XC system is totally unreasonable. Beyond unreasonable is that the person who gains the seat may have a discounted ticket while the evicted person could have a full fare Anytime one costing much more, not even 'just' the walk-on fare for the day and time.

 

[bavvo]

I'll just quietly add my NO! to the list. Nothing is guaranteed more to put the majority off travelling by rail than compulsory reservations. The last thing you want to do is add the stress of being tied to an exact time to domestic travel, for the convienience of the operator.

 

[edwin_m]

IMO the XC system is totally unreasonable. Beyond unreasonable is that the person who gains the seat may have a discounted ticket while the evicted person could have a full fare Anytime one costing much more, not even 'just' the walk-on fare for the day and time.

It might be workable if certain seats were guaranteed to remain unreserved, and there was clearer direction on which coach passengers could find these seats in. In fact I believe XC claimed to do that.

 

[Falcon1200]

It might be workable if certain seats were guaranteed to remain unreserved, and there was clearer direction on which coach passengers could find these seats in. In fact I believe XC claimed to do that.

I think that does happen, on recent XC Voyager journeys I have seen some seats 'May be reserved later' and others simply 'Available'. If one sits in one of the former it does mean having to jump up regularly to check that the seat has not become reserved ! Perhaps the First Class host could be alerted when a seat is reserved mid-journey, so that they can warn anyone in that seat and avoid an awkward scene when the reserver boards.

 

[Grecian 1998]

It might be workable if certain seats were guaranteed to remain unreserved, and there was clearer direction on which coach passengers could find these seats in. In fact I believe XC claimed to do that.

AIUI on XC Voyagers only seats in coach C can become reserved later. D is usually the first standard coach to fill up with reservations but any seat stated to be free will remain so. F is usually the best place to seek an unreserved seat on a 220 even though it's a smaller coach, simply because there are usually more unreserved seats there which will remain so.

B is always unreserved on 221s so they can work interchangeably with 220s. However I don't think any of that is necessarily made clear to passengers. There are usually stickers in C warning that seats can become reserved later though.

Not sure what the position on HSTs is.

Agreed that mandatory seat reservations are a very bad idea. You'd also need an army of staff to enforce them - not likely in the current climate.

 

[LethalDrizzle]

Horrid idea. I might not like standing on a train, but it's an awful lot better than not being able to travel. Rail is the long distance transportation mode of last resort, and losing that essential service would be awful.