Manxman - New Isle of Man Steam Packet Ship

[Blindtraveler]

Calmac will doubtless be very interested

 

[BayPaul]

Calmac will doubtless be very interested

I'm unsure where she would fit in the Calmac network. She is both longer and deeper than Loch Seaforth - their current largest vessel, and with a very different configuration - two freight decks rather than one, so even for the Stornoway route she doesn't seem very suitable, and she would have no chance of fitting on any of their other routes. She probably would be a reasonable fit for Northlink, for example providing extra capacity out of Aberdeen.

 

[Blindtraveler]

She probably could take over from lock seaforth which is more flexible and would work well in a number of places

I don't think NorthLink have any interest in extra capacity despite it being clearly needed, they would be quite capable of operating the two larger vessels on a 24-hour basis at slightly higher service speed particularly on the daytime crossing but other than in times of disruption this never happens

 

[Cloud Strife]

I'm unsure where she would fit in the Calmac network. She is both longer and deeper than Loch Seaforth - their current largest vessel, and with a very different configuration - two freight decks rather than one, so even for the Stornoway route she doesn't seem very suitable, and she would have no chance of fitting on any of their other routes. She probably would be a reasonable fit for Northlink, for example providing extra capacity out of Aberdeen.

She's slightly too big for Ullapool, although I think she'd fit in Stornoway. Northlink might make more sense, but she's older than the Northlink ships and there's no way that the Scottish Government are going to give extra subsidy to Northlink.

Either way, she's not really suitable for CalMac's operations.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Steve Marsh posted a video yesterday on YouTube of his sailing on Manxman.

Sorry I can't post any links to YouTube.

 

[Blindtraveler]

He appeared slightly critical about the amount of outside deck space but this is known to be one of his petty obsessions, just like a couple of mine are equally well known to be pointless automated announcements and the inflated price of Scottish curries. But overall he seemed impressed and good to see the state of the rail network in the North highlighted in as much as he was caught up in the cancellation of the Heysham boat train

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Steve Marsh posted a video yesterday on YouTube of his sailing on Manxman.

Sorry I can't post any links to YouTube.

Is it this one?

 

[OhNoAPacer]

Is it this one?

It is yes.

 

[Cloud Strife]

He appeared slightly critical about the amount of outside deck space

To be honest, it's a fair criticism, but this is a trend on UK ferries as a whole to really limit the amount of deck space available.

Not impressive that the Manxman couldn't sail in rough weather while the Ben-my-Chree could however. I suspect that if she's not able to handle rough seas, the islanders are quickly going to grow annoyed with IoMSP regardless of how nice the new boat is.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I suspect you will sail in rough weather, once she is all bedded in properly, I think they're doing some kind of phased introduction are they not

 

[DarloRich]

I have done three sailings on Manxman and one on Manannan in the past week/10 days

I will start with Manannan: was running on 3 engines so not quite as quick a crossing as usual which made my connection at Lime Street very tight. The boat is fine facilities wise as it is a quick crossing but needs a refit as it is looking a lot more tired than the last journey I had. It has very little outdoor deck space and what it does have stinks of exhaust fumes!

BTW, I wonder when the new Mersey terminal will open............................

Turing to the Manxman: Lovely new ship, still with a new car smell, fresh paint and notices in Korean!

2 car decks which seemed much bigger than the previous ship with a capacity for 237 cars and many more HGV trailers . 4 colour coded access stairways and big lifts to the passenger sections. A dog kennel and exercise section on its own floor. They seemed very hot on making sure dogs only exercised in the appointed area and not on the open deck!

Deck 7 is for the steerage class passengers: Lots more space for passengers, a big cafe with front facing windows at the "bow"? and a large cafeteria and bar at the rear with its own full width balcony and outside tables. The bar sold a mix of UK and IoM beers and lagers which was nice to see. There are two pet lounges with nice mats for your hound which seemed to be in good use, a shop selling sweets, trinkets and guide books, a family play area, comfortable seating, LOTs of charging points, lots of windows and free wifi.

I had a couple of meals and breakfast and they were solid if unspectacular. Service was bit slow (and on one trip the boat was mobbed by granny tour bus groups) but I expect that is the catering staff getting used to how to operate a new kitchen and equipment.

Deck 8 is for the fancy smancy passengers. As you know I get very Marxist about classes on transport so finding an open door I walked in for a look around. I have to say it was very nice. There are 40 cabins with 6 being fully accessible. I didn't see into these so don't know what they are like.

• The Barrule Lounge has bigger semi reclining seats with and a lovely view forward. These seats are unresrevable
• The Niarbyl Lounge has big semi-reclining seats come with full arm rests, pull out tables and charging ports. These seats can be reserved
• The Injebreck Exclusive Lounge has 26 fully-reclining pod seats with, I think, free refreshments
• The executive club lounge was sealed off and the attendant very politely suggest i buzz off back to he cheap seats

Both the executive club and Barrule lounge have access to an exclusive full width open deck at the rear of the boat. There is also a little display about IoMSP ships used in WW2 and especially Dunkirk where 8 company ships were used. 3 were sunk within 24 hours on 29th May ( Mona’s Queen, King Orry and Fenella - with 44 crew killed) but IoMSP ships took off c.25000 men which is about 1 in 14 of all men saved - which is pretty impressive! There is also one panel given over to a previous Manxman which was the last ship, loaded with evacuees, apparently under fire, out of Cherbourg before it fell to Rommel and his panzers! ( also the last ship out of St Malo a few days later!)

Deck 9 is a half width open deck/cancer balcony with access to the other section given over to crew fresh air/exercise ( why they cant have the whole top deck around the funnel for exercise and fresh air is beyond me!)

I travailed as both a driver ( last on/first off) and found the access easy. The marshals were good at getting people parked up in every knock and cranny and while it took a bit longer than I expected to load I expect they are still getting to grips with thier new toy!

Foot passenger wise it was no problem - the only issue was that foot passengers are last on/off meaning all the good seats are gone and the gang plank at Douglas was bloody steep!

Interestingly on one of the trips we were chased by the pilot boat who collected the Heysham pilot which suggest the crews are still getting signed off on thier new ship. I expect this is why Manxman is only doing day crossing as at this stage

Conclusion: I liked the crossing MV Manxman. Comfortable, quite quick, clean and quite relaxed. It is nice new ship and much more modern than BEN-MY-CHREE. IomSP have done a good job with thier new ship. It is worth noting all of my sailings were on flat calm seas. The real test comes in the winter..........

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not impressive that the Manxman couldn't sail in rough weather while the Ben-my-Chree could however

It can sail in rough seas, it’s just that the Steam Packet have chosen not to sail in strong wind whilst the ferry beds in. Sensible, really. Last thing you want to do with a new ferry is crash it on your first weekend.

The Barrule Lounge has bigger semi reclining seats with and a lovely view forward. These seats are unresrevable

It’s a view to the side and rear (important to know for those who need to face the front) and the seats are reservable- you can choose online when you book the lounge.

Self-service tea and coffee and biscuits, complimentary soft drinks available from the bar.

Well worth the £22.

The boat is fine facilities wise as it is a quick crossing but needs a refit as it is looking a lot more tired

Yep, it badly needs a refresh- a lick of paint and new seat covers, if nothing else.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wonder if they'll do this now that makes men is in service and setting are very high standard, I know that they're due to replace it but they are going to be caught between a rock and a hard place otherwise. The fact that it hasn't been done before could be to do with not doing stuff during the pandemic or finance being tied up in the new ship or a combination of all sorts

 

[AndrewE]

She’s in great condition. She’d be good to go off the bat.

By all accounts Condor paid over market rate to secure Straitsman (now Condor Islander). CalMac lost out and, as we all know, the one thing CalMac needs is a reliable ferry.

Manannan is still a good boat...

not! We and the Islanders are currently pretty p*??ed off with the ongoing lack of performance. Loses time, so schedules are all over the place, our sailing last Thurs was brought forward 2 1/12 hrs, so it was a good job I looked at my emails even though I was on holiday. Being described as speed restricted due to sea conditions! Actually admitted to be one engine out of 4 out of action. I think they had brought the whole day's sailings forward to try to be on time after the last round trip.
On the way out we arrived Douglas about 11pm instead of 10 (with no prior warning,) much grumbling by locals who were fed up with it and what it had done to their onward travel arrangements. Luckily our hotel was close by and I had already alerted them to a very late arrival.

 

[Tetchytyke]

not! We and the Islanders are currently pretty p*??ed off with the ongoing lack of performance

You’ll notice my location…

The engine has broken. The Steam Packet either take the boat out of service for a week whilst they repair it, or they run on three engines for the last month of the season. It’s slower on three engines, but not that much slower. And slower is certainly preferable to the alternative, which is cancelling the Liverpool sailings.

 

[John Luxton]

I have done three sailings on Manxman and one on Manannan in the past week/10 days

I will start with Manannan: was running on 3 engines so not quite as quick a crossing as usual which made my connection at Lime Street very tight. The boat is fine facilities wise as it is a quick crossing but needs a refit as it is looking a lot more tired than the last journey I had. It has very little outdoor deck space and what it does have stinks of exhaust fumes!

BTW, I wonder when the new Mersey terminal will open............................

Turing to the Manxman: Lovely new ship, still with a new car smell, fresh paint and notices in Korean!

2 car decks which seemed much bigger than the previous ship with a capacity for 237 cars and many more HGV trailers . 4 colour coded access stairways and big lifts to the passenger sections. A dog kennel and exercise section on its own floor. They seemed very hot on making sure dogs only exercised in the appointed area and not on the open deck!

Deck 7 is for the steerage class passengers: Lots more space for passengers, a big cafe with front facing windows at the "bow"? and a large cafeteria and bar at the rear with its own full width balcony and outside tables. The bar sold a mix of UK and IoM beers and lagers which was nice to see. There are two pet lounges with nice mats for your hound which seemed to be in good use, a shop selling sweets, trinkets and guide books, a family play area, comfortable seating, LOTs of charging points, lots of windows and free wifi.

I had a couple of meals and breakfast and they were solid if unspectacular. Service was bit slow (and on one trip the boat was mobbed by granny tour bus groups) but I expect that is the catering staff getting used to how to operate a new kitchen and equipment.

Deck 8 is for the fancy smancy passengers. As you know I get very Marxist about classes on transport so finding an open door I walked in for a look around. I have to say it was very nice. There are 40 cabins with 6 being fully accessible. I didn't see into these so don't know what they are like.

• The Barrule Lounge has bigger semi reclining seats with and a lovely view forward. These seats are unresrevable
• The Niarbyl Lounge has big semi-reclining seats come with full arm rests, pull out tables and charging ports. These seats can be reserved
• The Injebreck Exclusive Lounge has 26 fully-reclining pod seats with, I think, free refreshments
• The executive club lounge was sealed off and the attendant very politely suggest i buzz off back to he cheap seats

Both the executive club and Barrule lounge have access to an exclusive full width open deck at the rear of the boat. There is also a little display about IoMSP ships used in WW2 and especially Dunkirk where 8 company ships were used. 3 were sunk within 24 hours on 29th May ( Mona’s Queen, King Orry and Fenella - with 44 crew killed) but IoMSP ships took off c.25000 men which is about 1 in 14 of all men saved - which is pretty impressive! There is also one panel given over to a previous Manxman which was the last ship, loaded with evacuees, apparently under fire, out of Cherbourg before it fell to Rommel and his panzers! ( also the last ship out of St Malo a few days later!)

Deck 9 is a half width open deck/cancer balcony with access to the other section given over to crew fresh air/exercise ( why they cant have the whole top deck around the funnel for exercise and fresh air is beyond me!)

I travailed as both a driver ( last on/first off) and found the access easy. The marshals were good at getting people parked up in every knock and cranny and while it took a bit longer than I expected to load I expect they are still getting to grips with thier new toy!

Foot passenger wise it was no problem - the only issue was that foot passengers are last on/off meaning all the good seats are gone and the gang plank at Douglas was bloody steep!

Interestingly on one of the trips we were chased by the pilot boat who collected the Heysham pilot which suggest the crews are still getting signed off on thier new ship. I expect this is why Manxman is only doing day crossing as at this stage

Conclusion: I liked the crossing MV Manxman. Comfortable, quite quick, clean and quite relaxed. It is nice new ship and much more modern than BEN-MY-CHREE. IomSP have done a good job with thier new ship. It is worth noting all of my sailings were on flat calm seas. The real test comes in the winter..........

Interesting review of the MANXMAN - pleased to read that thy were proactive in booting you out of the Executive Club Lounge those of us that choose to cough up the fee (£415) don't like infiltrators! Actually if one does a few trips being a member can save you money. Apart from railways my other transport interest is ships and my main sailing pleasure is on the Steam Packet. This year I have sailed 7 times on BEN MY CHREE, 14 times on MANANNAN and once on MANXMAN. In that membership one gets free sandwiches, biscuits, soft drinks, tea and coffee plus two alcoholic drinks each sailing. As I generally just sail for fun as a foot passenger I make sure I get the full alcohol allowance. Plus there is a 10% on meals which are brought to you and 10% on shop purchases. I actually think I am running at a profit this season than if I had travelled steerage and paid for the refreshments!

not! We and the Islanders are currently pretty p*??ed off with the ongoing lack of performance. Loses time, so schedules are all over the place, our sailing last Thurs was brought forward 2 1/12 hrs, so it was a good job I looked at my emails even though I was on holiday. Being described as speed restricted due to sea conditions! Actually admitted to be one engine out of 4 out of action. I think they had brought the whole day's sailings forward to try to be on time after the last round trip.
On the way out we arrived Douglas about 11pm instead of 10 (with no prior warning,) much grumbling by locals who were fed up with it and what it had done to their onward travel arrangements. Luckily our hotel was close by and I had already alerted them to a very late arrival.

MANANNAN has been pretty reliable for quite a few years. Its a while since she has had problems.

All the sailings I have travelled on have been either early, on time with only one slightly late more due to tardy loading at Liverpool rather than anything else.

She is a fine vessel and personally I really like her.

You’ll notice my location…

The engine has broken. The Steam Packet either take the boat out of service for a week whilst they repair it, or they run on three engines for the last month of the season. It’s slower on three engines, but not that much slower. And slower is certainly preferable to the alternative, which is cancelling the Liverpool sailings.

I have heard rumours that it is a broken crankshaft. This will probably require the engine to be removed.

This has happened to INCAT vessels in the past and usually requires a hole to be cut in the side of the effected hull and the engine extracted. It will require a dry docking thus it is best left until the end of the season.

 

[DarloRich]

It’s a view to the side and rear (important to know for those who need to face the front) and the seats are reservable- you can choose online when you book the lounge.

thanks - got the names muddled up

pleased to read that thy were proactive in booting you out of the Executive Club Lounge those of us that choose to cough up the fee (£415) don't like infiltrators! Actually if one does a few trips being a member can save you money.

It isn't worth it for most people - we do maybe 2 return trips a year - as the rest of the ship is fine with decent facilities and the crossing is only c.4 hours.

 

[John Luxton]

thanks - got the names muddled up

It isn't worth it for most people - we do maybe 2 return trips a year - as the rest of the ship is fine with decent facilities and the crossing is only c.4 hours.

They do seem to have quite a lot of members including a few transport enthusiasts. Another benefit of the club lounge is that no children are allowed.

Back in the late 1990s when I joined the Isle of Man Steam Packet was owned by Sea Containers it was possible for passengers to upgrade to what was then known as the Blue Riband Club by payment of £10 per single journey. Unfortunately, the upgrade scheme was not well thought out, there were no limits on the alcohol once one had paid.

Unfortunately I had a day trip on SUPERSEACAT TWO at this time when a group of men on a day out upgraded.

On the return trip they upgraded again and a virtual riot broke out as they had become very drunk items were being thrown at other passengers and we had to me moved away by the Customer Services Officer. It was a most unpleasant situation. On arrival at Liverpool no one was allowed to disembark until the police had been invited on board to handcuff the miscreants.

Not long after that incident the separate first class Premium Lounge facility was created to keep upgrades away from members and free alcohol isn't provided for upgrades.

Members were then also limited to two drinks per trip, though occasionally, you might get offered a third!

 

[AndrewE]

MANANNAN has been pretty reliable for quite a few years. Its a while since she has had problems.

All the sailings I have travelled on have been either early, on time with only one slightly late more due to tardy loading at Liverpool rather than anything else.

She is a fine vessel and personally I really like her.

I have heard rumours that it is a broken crankshaft. This will probably require the engine to be removed.

This has happened to INCAT vessels in the past and usually requires a hole to be cut in the side of the affected hull and the engine extracted. It will require a dry docking thus it is best left until the end of the season.

Perhaps I should have said that the ship was OK, but the company mis-handled the handicap and its consequences. Public transport needs to be reliable, or if it goes wrong people need to be given proper information so that they can adapt their plans - which applies here just as much as it does to railways.
If we had been told "complete failure of 1 engine" and the revised sailing plans then we would have understood. As it is they are still blaming sea conditions for the delays which is an outright lie: it was a lovely crossing last Thursday.
Of course there is no non-public transport alternative to Mannanan (apart from flying, and that is apparntly not very reliable either) so the company almost have a captive market.

 

[Blindtraveler]

And we've all seen from the Calmac fiasco what happens when life line essential public transport shipping services go wrong and without accountability

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have heard rumours that it is a broken crankshaft. This will probably require the engine to be removed.

That’s the rumour I’d heard too, and if it requires a dry dock then it’s best to wait until the end of the season.

As you know, none of the other two vessels can get into Liverpool so if they take it out of service for repairs then all the Liverpool sailings get cancelled. Rather more inconvenient than a 45 minute delay!

If we had been told "complete failure of 1 engine" and the revised sailing plans then we would have understood.

That is exactly what the Steam Packet have said, though, with a revised schedule published.

 

[AndrewE]

That is exactly what the Steam Packet have said, though, with a revised schedule published.

so why did I get an email at 1415 on on the 12th Sept saying

Based on the current weather forecast your Isle of Man to Liverpool 15:00hrs crossing for Wednesday 13th September has been rescheduled and will now depart at 12:30hrs. Passengers are requested to check-in no later than 11:45hrs.

?

 

[BayPaul]

so why did I get an email at 1415 on on the 12th Sept saying

?

Perhaps the issue was weather as well as the engine out of service... That is probably the only likely reason for such an early departure - trying to avoid a storm coming in later. It would also explain the late notice.

 

[AndrewE]

Perhaps the issue was weather as well as the engine out of service... That is probably the only likely reason for such an early departure - trying to avoid a storm coming in later. It would also explain the late notice.

no, it was a beautiful day with no bad weather forecast at all. I listen to the shipping forecast amd was quite optimistic that we would have a good crossing.

 

[DarloRich]

That’s the rumour I’d heard too, and if it requires a dry dock then it’s best to wait until the end of the season.

when I was on Manannan I noticed the IoMSP loading large parts ( looked like connecting rods for a steam engine!) and drums of lubricants on board - I think the truck bringing them was late as it roared up after all cars were aboard!

 

[randyrippley]

There seem to be safety questions regarding unloading passengers from Manxman in an emergency

Steam Packet to limit the number of passengers on Manxman over winter

The new vessel can usually carry up to 948 people

www.iomtoday.co.im

Manxman will have a winter capacity limit of 750 persons on board.
This total would typically consist of 698 passengers and 52 crew members.

The vessel can take up to 948 people, 300 more than the Ben-My-Chree and has extra vehicle capacity.
Treasury Minister, Alex Allinson, who was asked on the matter in the House of Keys this week explained: ‘The proposed winter restriction is based on having the ability to evacuate all persons using the marine evacuation system from one side of the vessel.


‘This limitation is a result of a hazard identifying workshop during the alternative design and arrangement assessment.
‘However, through dynamic risk assessment, and ultimately the Masters decision to sail, Manxman can exceed the self-imposed limit provided weather, wind and wave conditions are within acceptable criteria.’
When considering the reduce passenger capacity during the winter months, which run from November to March inclusive, the Steam Packet advised that maximum recorded passenger figure was 539, between 2017 and 2020, according to Dr Allinson.

 

[Blindtraveler]

This comes across as very schoolboy error to me but obviously it's safety first so that's what matters most

 

[chiltern trev]

Is it the intention to retain the Ben long-term as a backup or does the financing of maximum require sale or long-term charter of this vessel?

What is also interesting is that the flagship large vessel on this service is being replaced at approximately 25 years old, I somehow doubt the Scottish government will be in a position to do the same for the large vessels on the NorthLink service from Aberdeen and the highlands to the northern isles which could be said our far more demanding in many ways

Replacement of Ben My Chree with a new vessel is a requirement of the Sea Services Agreement between the Isle of Man Government and the Steam Packet.

Also a requirement for greater passenger and freight capacity than Ben My Chree.

She really is incredibly well designed inside, a really luxurious look, probably better than any other UK ferry. I think she'd look a bit better outside with the black paint going a bit higher, or the company name being moved to the white, but that's pretty minor.

Also a requirement to be more upmarket in keeping with the best that is offered by other Irish Sea ferries, etc

There seem to be safety questions regarding unloading passengers from Manxman in an emergency

Steam Packet to limit the number of passengers on Manxman over winter

The new vessel can usually carry up to 948 people

www.iomtoday.co.im

I heard, or it was rephrased differently, that the the lower limit was to do with if it was a very windy and part weather crossing and the need to evacuate from one side only, e.g perhaps evacuate all passengers via a sheltered lee side.

So some other related comments/questiond:

1. Is this insurance related? Is there an insurance clause "must be able to fully evacuate from one side only"?

2. Or a Manx registry, or other, requirement?

3. Is this temporary due to some equipment or other issue?

4. Does this imply the evacuation capabily needs upgrading, e.g at next annual dry dock?
Having said that, the previous winter passenger loadings indicate not an issue.




So for the vessel to be in service and registered then the full complement evacuation must have been deemed ok.

I wonder how many other ferries operating into and out of UK ports can do a full evacuation via one side only?

I'm unsure where she would fit in the Calmac network. She is both longer and deeper than Loch Seaforth - their current largest vessel, and with a very different configuration - two freight decks rather than one, so even for the Stornoway route she doesn't seem very suitable, and she would have no chance of fitting on any of their other routes. She probably would be a reasonable fit for Northlink, for example providing extra capacity out of Aberdeen.

Some statistic from wikipedia
L = length, B=beam, D=draught. All in metres

Loch Seaforth L 117.9m B 19.2m D 4.8m
Arrow L 122.3m B 19.8m D 6.2m
Alfred (cat) L 84.5m B 22.0m D 2.7m
Ben My Chree L 125.2m B 23.4m D 5.0m

The Arrow can substitute for Loch Seaforth and the Arrow will be doing so for the next 2 weeks and is now in Stornoway/Ullapool.
So depth of water will not be a problem for Ben My Chree on Stornoway/Ullapool

There is not a lot of difference in length so should be ok.
-
Alfred failed a berthing trial at Stornoway in the last week or so - therefore the width of Ben My Chree may be an issue, i.e. non-starter, on Stornoway/Ullapool.

I do not see Ben My Chree with 2 decks being an issue as the Ben My Chree loads/unloads from the lower deck only with an internal ramp between the 2 full height vehicle decks. Arrow is similar to Ben My Chree and is on on Stornoway/Ullapool.

Note - Ben My Chree is stern loading/unloading only - no bow doors - which works ok on Steam Packet routes.