Map of Britains tramways just before WWII?

[Comstock]

I've just watched a really interesting Timeshift documentary on Iplayer- although I think it's about to expire http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-golden-age-of-trams-a-streetcar-named-desire


Anyway, at one point, Ken Dodd is recalling the trams of his youth, and recalls how it was possible in the 1930s to get a tram from Birkenhead to Ellesmere point and even then into Wales.

That's a fair old distance really. Is there a map anywhere online of Britains tramways at their height (which I presume was the Inter war years?)

Just how far could you get across the North using only trams (unlimited changes)

 

[madannie77]

I've just watched a really interesting Timeshift documentary on Iplayer- although I think it's about to expire http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-golden-age-of-trams-a-streetcar-named-desire


Anyway, at one point, Ken Dodd is recalling the trams of his youth, and recalls how it was possible in the 1930s to get a tram from Birkenhead to Ellesmere point and even then into Wales.

That's a fair old distance really. Is there a map anywhere online of Britains tramways at their height (which I presume was the Inter war years?)

Just how far could you get across the North using only trams (unlimited changes)

Not sure if there is a map showing all tramways pre-WWII. There is a series of regional books published by the Light Rail Transit Association covering areas of the UK with maps of all tramways. The Directory of British Tramways by Keith Turner gives details of all tramways but does not include a great number of maps.

Ken Dodd is not correct if that is what he said. The tramways of Birkenhead extended no further south than New Ferry and the nearest tramway in North Wales was at Wrexham.

It was possible to travel from Liverpool to the eastern reaches of Lancashire & Cheshire around Rochdale, Oldham, Mossley, Stalybridge & Stockport, and if travelling the long way round you could get to Blackburn and Darwen (via Rochdale, Bacup, Rawtenstall & Haslingden)

In Yorkshire it was possible to travel from Hebden Bridge or Marsden to Wakefield and then head west again through Dewsbury to Cleckheaton or Birkenshaw.

 

[Comstock]

Thanks. Just watched it again (it's on youtube- search Timeshift trams).

He actually mentions trams linking on to buses, so looks I was wrong, not him.

Thanks anyway though- interesting to see how far the trams did spread.

 

[Taunton]

Anyway, at one point, Ken Dodd is recalling the trams of his youth, and recalls how it was possible in the 1930s to get a tram from Birkenhead to Ellesmere Port and even then into Wales.

This is not correct. He is recalling the Crosville bus company, which indeed around 1930 was opening up these exact routes from Birkenhead Woodside to Ellesmere Port, Chester, and into North Wales. The Birkenhead trams (abandoned in the 1930s) just did local trips within the town area.

Is there a map anywhere online of Britains tramways at their height (which I presume was the Inter war years?)

The classic book is "Great British Tramway Networks" by W H Bett, maps drawn by longstanding old tramway cartographer J C Gilham, long out of print but it comes with a complete set of maps. The books referred to above by the LRTA are meant to be an extension of this work and they cover various (but not all)regions with more detail and bigger maps by the same artist.

Just how far could you get across the North using only trams (unlimited changes)

The ultimate trip was from Liverpool Pier Head to the eastern end of the Rochdale town network. From there a train trip of about 10 miles took you to the start of the Yorkshire network which was not so continuous, with some breaks of gauge but still could be a through journey by changing, to the east side of Leeds. This all started to fall apart in the early 1930s

Most cities and towns had their own networks (typically later reflected in the separate local buses that lasted until 1968) and it was often necessary to change, or at least buy fresh tickets, at the borough boundary. A famous through journey was once (probably the only time) made when Stockport borrowed the special illuminated tram from Liverpool, and an inspector went over (doubtless by train) and drove it along the interconnected network all the way back to Stockport, and returned it later. Must have taken all day.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I'm not sure if this is one of my 'getting old' moments but I recall reading somewhere about a continuous run by a tram from Liverpool to Ashton-under-Lyne and it being the longest single tram journey in the country at around 40 miles. ....- and even a music hall song about it - "All the Way to Ashton-under-Lyne" I believe. The thing is I can't find any references to either the tram journey or the song online.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

This is a map of the old Glasgow Corporation Tramways

...

 

[Taunton]

I'm not sure if this is one of my 'getting old' moments but I recall reading somewhere about a continuous run by a tram from Liverpool to Ashton-under-Lyne and it being the longest single tram journey in the country at around 40 miles. ....- and even a music hall song about it - "All the Way to Ashton-under-Lyne" I believe. The thing is I can't find any references to either the tram journey or the song online.

Well the tram journey will be pretty much along the route described of the tram driven from Liverpool to Stockport and back.

Broadly the operators were :

Liverpool Corporation : Pier Head to Prescot
St Helens Corporation : Prescot to Haydock
South Lancashire Tramways : Haydock to Worsley
Salford Corporation : Worsley to Manchester Deansgate
Manchester Corporation : Deansgate to Guide Bridge
Ashton Corporation : Guide Bridge to Ashton

There was of course no through service, although they did overlap - eg Manchester and Ashton ran the through service between their two centres jointly.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Well the tram journey will be pretty much along the route described of the tram driven from Liverpool to Stockport and back.

Broadly the operators were :

Liverpool Corporation : Pier Head to Prescot
St Helens Corporation : Prescot to Haydock
South Lancashire Tramways : Haydock to Worsley
Salford Corporation : Worsley to Manchester Deansgate
Manchester Corporation : Deansgate to Guide Bridge
Ashton Corporation : Guide Bridge to Ashton

There was of course no through service, although they did overlap - eg Manchester and Ashton ran the through service between their two centres jointly.

It wasn't a service but a special one off through tram .

 

[JamesCardiff]

Some interesting clips still remain on the bbc site despite the programme being unavailable

 

[jp4712]

[whistles contentedly] I'll just leave this here...

The furthest you could get from Liverpool by tram was Summit, east of Rochdale, until 1931 when South Lancashire Tramways changed over to trolleybuses. The route was:

Pier Head to Prescot - Liverpool Corporation
Prescot to Haydock - St Helens Corporation
Haydock to Atherton - South Lancashire Tramways
Atherton to Bolton - South Lancashire again
Bolton to Bury - Bolton/Bury Corporation joint service
Bury to Rochdale - Bury/Rochdale Corporation joint service
Rochdale to Summit - Rochdale Corporation

Even after 1931 you could still do the journey by electric traction as South Lancashire replaced trams with trolleybuses; but only until 1932, when Rochdale converted its system to motor buses.

To quote The Tramways and Railway World of 26 August 1916: "At a cost of just over 4/- each in fares, two Bingley residents recently journeyed to Liverpool mainly by tramway. They started at 6 a.m. and reached the Mersey city at 5 p.m. The distance is 76 miles, and the only portion not served by a tramway is that of seven miles between Hebden Bridge and the villages of Summit, on the boundary of Lancashire and Yorkshire."