Map of route taken by Paddington - High Wycombe ('parliamentary') train?

[D6130]

Mid 80s, say 1985, it was Wolverhampton both ways; later on it was Banbury down and Leamington Spa up. I'm pretty sure the stock was then stored overnight at Banbury - not sure if the engine stayed with the coaches. The newspaper train was nothing to do with it and, in any case, it was to and from Aylesbury.

When I was at Aylesbury (1988-91) it was Banbury in both directions, with the stock stabled there overnight. the Old Oak Commom driver and Paddington guard on the evening job travelled pass back to London, while their early turn colleagues were taxied to Banbury at some unearthly hour of the morning. At that time there was a severe shortage of drivers at OOC and the train was booked for a NSE class 47, in case it had to be covered by an Aylesbury driver, who didn't sign class 50s. The latter did, however, still turn up occasionally....including on the memorable winter's evening in early 1991 when London was blanketed in 'the wrong kind of snow' and the train never got any further than West Ruislip. Meanwhile, I was stuck there for several hours on the Up line with a four car class 115 dmu, while the adjacent LU Central line continued running with minimal delay and took all our passengers forward.

 

[jfollows]

From PA working timetable 14/5/84 to 12/5/85:

• 1M19 02:55 News Paddington-Birmingham pass Greenford 03/07 D315 VB
• 1M83 03:55 News Paddington-Aylesbury pass Greenford 04/06.5 D315 VB
• 1M61 17:40 Paddington-Wolverhampton pass Greenford 17/50 D315 +
• 4V06 06:00 Empty NPCCS(*) Aylesbury-Old Oak Common Yard pass Greenford 07/03 D525 VB
• 1V10 06:22 Wolverhampton-Paddington pass Greenford 08/55 D315 +

* - Non passenger-carrying coaching stock

I did the route myself in 1980 or 1981 from Oxford-Banbury-Paddington am and return pm after a day in London, at the time on a Birmingham-Paddington working, class 50 in both directions of course.

 

[12LDA28C]

Nothing will change on the usage of the line, save the withdrawal of the one train per week Chiltern operate and it’s corresponding ECS move to West Ealing. All the existing freight traffic throughout; and GWR services through Castle Bar Park will remain.

I believe this is just a simplification exercise for Chiltern - there’s no plans for drastic changes to what remains of the route at any point in the foreseeable now that the “main line” via Park Royal has been severed between Park Royal and Old Oak.

As previously stated, it's to free up a valuable 2-car unit that could be used more productively, and guards retaining route knowledge was becoming a problem.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Years ago I did the Parliamentary train from South Ruislip to Paddington then back to High Wycombe,

Can anyone provide the exact route it took. I remember going past Old Oak Common Depot and the semaphore signals on part of it.

Does anyone have a copy of the map of this route too that they could kindly post here (or email to me).


Yesterday's trip from West Ealing to West Ruislip and I wasn't 100% sure which bit of the line was completely new to me.


Thanks in advance,

When I used the service several years ago, the return journey terminated at West Ruislip. I remember going to Paddington and seeing the destination given as High Wycombe for the first time. I asked the guard, who by then knew me by sight, if the train called at West Ruislip. He smiled and shook his head.

This old YouTube video provides a view of the route.

The picture quality is not in the Don Coffey/Ben Elias league but, because of the huge changes since then, the video is a useful historic document.

 

[12LDA28C]

When I used the service several years ago, the return journey terminated at West Ruislip. I remember going to Paddington and seeing the destination given as High Wycombe for the first time. I asked the guard, who by then knew me by sight, if the train called at West Ruislip. He smiled and shook his head.

This old YouTube video provides a view of the route.

The picture quality is not in the Don Coffey/Ben Elias league but, because of the huge changes since then, the video is a useful historic document.

The train has started and ended at various origins and destinations over the years.
Chiltern traincrew at Paddington were regularly asked if the train was the service to Langley, Slough and various other places despite the departure screen clearly showing otherwise.

On several occasions at weekends when Marylebone was closed for engineering work, some Chiltern services terminated at West Ruislip and others (including trains from Birmingham) went through to Paddington with Aylesbury drivers and guards who signed the route.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes the line has slowly been reduced in scope. Firstly it was fully severed in about 2018/2019 (?) I think for the HS2 works which eventually also encompssed demolishing the Heathrow Express former trainshed.

The ramped up TfL Rail / Crossrail / Elizabeth line service also put an end to running through to Paddington via Castle Bar Park (FGW / GWR had already been curtailed) and a bay platform at West Ealing was built to accomadate a Greenford shuttle and that bay was also used by the Chiltern parliamentary which has of course this week now come to an end also.

What remains to be see is what will happen with this section of the NNL between South Ruislip/Greenford and Old Oak Common going forward although there's lots of interesting suggestions.

Carto Metro shows the map in the faded (former) lines category - https://cartometro.com/cartes/metro-tram-london/

 

[12LDA28C]

The ramped up TfL Rail / Crossrail / Elizabeth line service also put an end to running through to Paddington via Castle Bar Park (FGW / GWR had already been curtailed) and a bay platform at West Ealing was built to accomadate a Greenford shuttle and that bay was also used by the Chiltern parliamentary which has of course this week now come to an end also.

I don't think it has - pretty sure it's running next Wednesday and indeed the 30th November and 7th December

What remains to be see is what will happen with this section of the NNL between West Ruislip/Greenford and Old Oak Common going forward although there's lots of interesting suggestions.

Carto Metro shows the map in the faded (former) lines category - https://cartometro.com/cartes/metro-tram-london/

I'm sure you mean South Ruislip, or more specifically Northolt Junction.

 

[Horizon22]

I don't think it has - pretty sure it's running next Wednesday and indeed the 30th November and 7th December



I'm sure you mean South Ruislip, or more specifically Northolt Junction.

I did indeed mean that!

 

[DelW]

Years ago I did the Parliamentary train from South Ruislip to Paddington then back to High Wycombe,

Can anyone provide the exact route it took. I remember going past Old Oak Common Depot and the semaphore signals on part of it.

When I travelled the line on that service in 2014, there were still semaphores controlling the junctions at Greenford. Presumably they're still there if the line to Park Royal is still in use?

 

[Dr_Paul]

Are there any freight workings along the old Birmingham line up towards Park Royal, or have all the freight facilities closed now?

 

[stuu]

Are there any freight workings along the old Birmingham line up towards Park Royal, or have all the freight facilities closed now?

Long gone, fairly sure nothing this century, and almost certainly a lot longer ago

 

[pdeaves]

When I travelled the line on that service in 2014, there were still semaphores controlling the junctions at Greenford. Presumably they're still there if the line to Park Royal is still in use?

Greenford is indeed still semaphores.

 

[12LDA28C]

Greenford is indeed still semaphores.

It is, although at least one semaphore has been replaced in recent years by a colour light.

When I travelled the line on that service in 2014, there were still semaphores controlling the junctions at Greenford. Presumably they're still there if the line to Park Royal is still in use?

Park Royal I believe is now closed due to the construction of access shafts to the HS2 tunnel below. However, the line from Greenford towards Park Royal is still open for a short distance to allow for turning of stock on the Greenford triangle.

 

[JN114]

I thought there was still some stone traffic to Park Royal? @Freightmaster

 

[12LDA28C]

I thought there was still some stone traffic to Park Royal? @Freightmaster

There are still some 'Q' paths in the system for traffic to the Marcon facility at Park Royal but whether trains actually ever run is another matter. Maybe the line is severed south of Park Royal, in that case.

 

[Taunton]

The branch from Ealing to Greenford was originally part of building the "New North" line from Old Oak to Banbury, and indeed was the first part to open in the early 1900s; The intent was to develop suburban traffic, and run circular services from and back to Paddington via the loop, which never really caught on, though a single car railmotor ran the circuit for some years. Turning the other way at Greenford came later. It was completely supplanted in its purpose by the post-WW2 opening of the Central Line to West Ruislip. The loop was regularly convenient to turn empty trains from Paddington round.

Paddington to High Wycombe services had long run since earlier Victorian times, but somewhat indirectly via Maidenhead and thence through Bourne End, Wycombe, and onwards to both Aylesbury and Oxford. It was rather obscure GWR single line territory.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I presume the route is that seen in this Blue Pullman video:

On a poignant note I believe the driver seen is Ernest Morris who was sadly killed along with another driver who were in the Western which crashed at Dorridge in 1963.

What a wonderful Video. Oozing steam age. Surrounded by steam engines. On a route I always knew so little of as I travelled as a child to/from London/Birmingham via the WCML later in the 60s.

 

[BrianW]

When I used the service several years ago, the return journey terminated at West Ruislip. I remember going to Paddington and seeing the destination given as High Wycombe for the first time. I asked the guard, who by then knew me by sight, if the train called at West Ruislip. He smiled and shook his head.

This old YouTube video provides a view of the route.

The picture quality is not in the Don Coffey/Ben Elias league but, because of the huge changes since then, the video is a useful historic document.

Thank you for the youtube. I went to school overlooking that line at Northolt- many a King rescuing a poorly Western diesel . It would surely have made a great route in overland for a quiet HS2 as I imagine was originally envisaged. The A40 alongside can surely not be quieter or less polluting! Oh well ...

What a wonderful Video. Oozing steam age. Surrounded by steam engines. On a route I always knew so little of as I travelled as a child to/from London/Birmingham via the WCML later in the 60s.

I presume the route is that seen in this Blue Pullman video:

On a poignant note I believe the driver seen is Ernest Morris who was sadly killed along with another driver who were in the Western which crashed at Dorridge in 1963.

Those Blue Pullmans were quite something- a pity the crew got saddled with being called 'milkmen'.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Those Blue Pullmans were quite something- a pity the crew got saddled with being called 'milkmen'.

But white coats and caps were what milkmen used to wear, so it was asking for trouble.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Thank you for the youtube. I went to school overlooking that line at Northolt- many a King rescuing a poorly Western diesel . It would surely have made a great route in overland for a quiet HS2 as I imagine was originally envisaged. The A40 alongside can surely not be quieter or less polluting! Oh well ...

One of the reasons I hope Chiltern Railways do eventually have a service to Old Oak Common is that a very good stretch of well-aligned railway lying idle within the London area irritates me enormously!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thank you for the youtube. I went to school overlooking that line at Northolt- many a King rescuing a poorly Western diesel . It would surely have made a great route in overland for a quiet HS2 as I imagine was originally envisaged. The A40 alongside can surely not be quieter or less polluting! Oh well ...




Those Blue Pullmans were quite something- a pity the crew got saddled with being called 'milkmen'.

I often wonder how much a prototype the Blue Pullmans were for the HSTs !.

 

[12LDA28C]

One of the reasons I hope Chiltern Railways do eventually have a service to Old Oak Common is that a very good stretch of well-aligned railway lying idle within the London area irritates me enormously!

That was the original plan - running services from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury and High Wycombe into Old Oak Common for transfer into the GWML, Heathrow Express, Crossrail and HS2. Whether or not that still happens at some point in the future, who knows.

 

[BrianW]

That was the original plan - running services from Milton Keynes via Aylesbury and High Wycombe into Old Oak Common for transfer into the GWML, Heathrow Express, Crossrail and HS2. Whether or not that still happens at some point in the future, who knows.

I'm trying to picture the (current) plan/ platform arrangements for Old Oak Common station (still that name?). I'm imagining that a platform for MK/ Aylesbury/ High Wycombe trains will also need to serve other services- in which case what alternatives might it be displacing? A nightmare for today's planners to be able to reconcile/ recommend/ decide, esp against constrained expenditures.

Can someone direct me to the current plan please.

 

[12LDA28C]

I'm trying to picture the (current) plan/ platform arrangements for Old Oak Common station (still that name?). I'm imagining that a platform for MK/ Aylesbury/ High Wycombe trains will also need to serve other services- in which case what alternatives might it be displacing? A nightmare for today's planners to be able to reconcile/ recommend/ decide, esp against constrained expenditures.

Can someone direct me to the current plan please.

The current plan is for 8 conventional platforms above ground for GWML, Crossrail, HEX etc and 6 platforms underground for High Speed services.

If there were to be services via the Chilterns I assume they would terminate at an Up side platform (was originally planned to be a bay I believe)

 

[paok]

There are still some 'Q' paths in the system for traffic to the Marcon facility at Park Royal but whether trains actually ever run is another matter. Maybe the line is severed south of Park Royal, in that case.

Found this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H28274/2022-11-17/detailed

Yes the line has slowly been reduced in scope. Firstly it was fully severed in about 2018/2019 (?) I think for the HS2 works which eventually also encompssed demolishing the Heathrow Express former trainshed.

The ramped up TfL Rail / Crossrail / Elizabeth line service also put an end to running through to Paddington via Castle Bar Park (FGW / GWR had already been curtailed) and a bay platform at West Ealing was built to accomadate a Greenford shuttle and that bay was also used by the Chiltern parliamentary which has of course this week now come to an end also.

What remains to be see is what will happen with this section of the NNL between South Ruislip/Greenford and Old Oak Common going forward although there's lots of interesting suggestions.

Carto Metro shows the map in the faded (former) lines category - https://cartometro.com/cartes/metro-tram-london/

Think that Carto Metro map isn't quite right. The line below Park Royal Marcon goes further south east towards buffer stops so essentially a long siding.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[12LDA28C]

Found this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H28274/2022-11-17/detailed

4 hours to travel 8 miles. Impressive.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

I see that from the December timetable the Chiltern train is replaced by a once-a-week bus from West Ealing to West Ruislip (no return trip), confirming I presume that it is an actual "Parliamentary" service which has to be retained despite serving virtually no useful purpose for passengers or for crew diversionary route familiarity. The legislation really does need changing as it fails to ensure a meaningful service is retained but results in wasteful expenditure on a token bus service that could be far better spent funding something people actually need.

 

[12LDA28C]

I see that from the December timetable the Chiltern train is replaced by a once-a-week bus from West Ealing to West Ruislip (no return trip), confirming I presume that it is an actual "Parliamentary" service which has to be retained despite serving virtually no useful purpose for passengers or for crew diversionary route familiarity. The legislation really does need changing as it fails to ensure a meaningful service is retained but results in wasteful expenditure on a token bus service that could be far better spent funding something people actually need.

As has been explained previously, when the service ran to Paddington, it very much did serve a useful purpose as a diversionary route and maintained both drivers' and guards' route competence. The usefulness of the service was rather eroded when it was diverted to West Ealing, but that of course was due to HS2 works closing the route via Old Oak Common although it still provided a potential route into London (with a change at West Ealing) if Marylebone was closed for engineering work, as happens on occasion.

 

[janahan]

In the past it went on the GW-GC route alongside the Central Line, past North Acton and Hanger Lane, via the junction at OOC. HS2 works have closed that section hence going via Greenford.

Sorry to be an absolute pedant here, but the part between OOC/North Acton, past Hanger lane to Northolt junction was not technically part of the GW-GC route, and was purely GW. the joint route started at Northolt Junction where the GC route from neasden joined, and ended at the no longer existing Ashendon Junctiom, where the GC route left towards Grendon Underwold (Line and junction no longer exists).

The section between OOC and Northolt junction was once called the New North Main Line,, now officially the Acton to Northolt Line.

 

[12LDA28C]

Sorry to be an absolute pedant here, but the part between OOC/North Acton, past Hanger lane to Northolt junction was not technically part of the GW-GC route, and was purely GW. the joint route started at Northolt Junction where the GC route from neasden joined, and ended at the no longer existing Ashendon Junctiom, where the GC route left towards Grendon Underwold (Line and junction no longer exists).

The section between OOC and Northolt junction was once called the New North Main Line,, now officially the Acton to Northolt Line.

Grendon Underwood junction of course, if we're into pedantry.