Marylebone to Banbury

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notadriver

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A 70 mile journey with units limited to 75 mph. Is there any other service from a London termini which goes this kind distance but is limited to 75 max ?


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The Planner

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That is just due to rolling stock, if Chiltern had enough 100mph units Ive no doubt they would utilise them!
 

Deepgreen

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A 70 mile journey with units limited to 75 mph. Is there any other service from a London termini which goes this kind distance but is limited to 75 max ?


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Can't think of another one over the distance using what is essentially suburban stock. The nearest I can think of off the top of my head is Victoria to Horsham via Dorking, but that's only about 40 miles at most.

However, I managed to photograph a Waterloo to Salisbury working in 1984 that was a single 3H DMU - 84 miles at 75mph (if lucky!).
 

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CyrusWuff

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Over in Essex, meanwhile, c2c has the opposite problem...The trains are rated for 100mph, but the route is mostly 60 or 70mph (50 for trains other than Multiple Units), with short stretches of 75.
 

RPM

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The Marylebone - Stratfords are generally 165s, and not long ago there were Marylebone - Birminghams booked for 165s.
 

fgwrich

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Slightly less of a problem for GW (as the GW Turbos are 90MPH vice Chilterns 75) But a Turbo to Worcester and originally Hereford from Paddington has to rank as one of the worst, 90MPH for a above 90 mile journey!
 

azz7008

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The Marylebone - Stratfords are generally 165s, and not long ago there were Marylebone - Birminghams booked for 165s.

There still is! The 1647 from Marylebone has had a 165 in it's formation a few weeks now! I think this used to be a silver service too. <D
 

168lover

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Part of the issue at the moment Chiltern are missing 168113 that hit a tree last December. Bear in mind Chiltern have quite a small fleet it is quite hard to juggle diagrams to cover. Also on top of that 165s are in the process of being refurbished so they are at least 1 165 down every day. Actually whilst we're on the subject of chiltern diagramming, why has 168001 been running round with just 3 coaches for the last few weeks instead of its normal 4 coaches?
 

Cherry_Picker

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A 70 mile journey with units limited to 75 mph. Is there any other service from a London termini which goes this kind distance but is limited to 75 max ?

Out of curiosity I wonder what the percentage of 75 mph trains making it to Banbury compared to 100 mph trains is? I'd imagine it would be fairly low, and I'd imagine the passenger loadings would be even lower. Most of the 165 work between Marylebone and Banbury is more about the intermediate stations than the end to end journey. Still not ideal, but I'm not sure the picture painted in this opening statement is really what the experience of most passengers is.
 

notadriver

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Out of curiosity I wonder what the percentage of 75 mph trains making it to Banbury compared to 100 mph trains is? I'd imagine it would be fairly low, and I'd imagine the passenger loadings would be even lower. Most of the 165 work between Marylebone and Banbury is more about the intermediate stations than the end to end journey. Still not ideal, but I'm not sure the picture painted in this opening statement is really what the experience of most passengers is.


Fellow driver it wasn't meant as a criticism - I was surprised as the majority of the route to Banbury is cleared for 100 mph - it does mean it's an opportunity to hear units worked hard and running at maximum speeds for long periods.

Of course Southeastern use 75 mph 465 stock to Ashford via Maidstone (56 miles). The Max line speed on that bit is 80 mph but in general networkers can keep to timings for faster stock anyway.
 

Cherry_Picker

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It's a historical thing though, isn't it? The 165s predate the increases in line speed which happened relatively recently. Evergreen 3 was less than five years ago.

I'm sure the 165s will be phased out eventually but I was surprised they weren't replaced with a full fleet of 172s four or five years ago when 172s were being introduced to the network in large numbers. I remember there being some half hearted mumbles about how the current tripcock mounting wouldn't fit on 172 bogies but that always just struck me as not being the real reason the 165s weren't replaced. I'm sure it was more to do with money.
 

notadriver

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Yes of course that's all true. I loved the day I spent there. Got any jobs ? [emoji1]

Regarding 172s - how is it the are able to be operated in multiple with 165s as 172s have a mitrac ?


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168lover

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I find it quite weird that chiltern 165s can only do 75 mph yet GWR 165s can do 90. Anyway chiltern 165s are not too bad, I'm currently on 165002 on the way home from school and it has working air con and I have a seat, what more would you want? Apart from WiFi obviously.
 

CarltonA

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I find it quite weird that chiltern 165s can only do 75 mph yet GWR 165s can do 90. Anyway chiltern 165s are not too bad, I'm currently on 165002 on the way home from school and it has working air con and I have a seat, what more would you want? Apart from WiFi obviously.

They have different gearing basically. BR ordered the 165/0s for the Marylebone-Banbury route to replace the old bog units. The faster 165/1 units were for the GW mainline which of course had higher line speeds. Ironically the 165/0 three car units were then sent to Paddington first due to some issue with signalling at Paddington.
 
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Cherry_Picker

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They've got the same engine as far as I'm aware but different gear boxes. Chiltern units geared for acceleration due to some of the gradients through the hills while Thames units have a higher top speed due to more mainline work. Thames units also have improved suspension with yaw dampers stopping the train from rolling from side to side at speed, I guess with the wide loading gauge of the units then clipping platform edges could be an issue.

The mitrac compatibility thing between 165s and 172s? You don't need a mitrac for the train to run. I'm sure a fitter could tell you more specifically what happens but I think software basically knows the train is coupled to a non mitrac fitted unit.
 

jimm

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They have different engines basically. BR ordered the 165/0s for the Marylebone-Banbury route to replace the old bog units. The more powerful units were for the GW mainline which of course had higher line speeds. Ironically the original units were then sent to Paddington first due to some issue which I have forgotten about.

All 165 and 166 units have the same 350hp Perkins engines. As Cherry_Picker says, the gearing is different between the Chiltern and GWR 165s and the GWR sets were built with yaw dampers due to the higher maximum speed.
 

CarltonA

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All 165 and 166 units have the same 350hp Perkins engines. As Cherry_Picker says, the gearing is different between the Chiltern and GWR 165s and the GWR sets were built with yaw dampers due to the higher maximum speed.

Right I've corrected my post. I thought I'd read somewhere that the Thames units had a more powerful version of the Perkins engine. :oops:
 

RPM

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It's a historical thing though, isn't it? The 165s predate the increases in line speed which happened relatively recently. Evergreen 3 was less than five years ago.

I'm sure the 165s will be phased out eventually but I was surprised they weren't replaced with a full fleet of 172s four or five years ago when 172s were being introduced to the network in large numbers. I remember there being some half hearted mumbles about how the current tripcock mounting wouldn't fit on 172 bogies but that always just struck me as not being the real reason the 165s weren't replaced. I'm sure it was more to do with money.

Back in 2006 when the Central Trains franchise was up for renewal, Chiltern were invited to bid to take over all the services on the Snow Hill lines, rather than have them form part of the new West Midlands Franchise. The bid was rejected, but if it had gone ahead the plan was to transfer the 165 fleet to the Snow Hill lines and order new trains to replace them on the core Chiltern line locals out of Marylebone.
 

Phil.

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What's the maximum line speed between Reading and Gatwick nowadays? That's a fair mileage.
 

JonathanH

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What's the maximum line speed between Reading and Gatwick nowadays? That's a fair mileage.

Nowhere above 70 between Reading and Redhill or between Reading and Waterloo and quite a few bits lower than that but neither are 'main lines' in the way that the Chiltern route now is.

Back on topic is there anywhere on the route via Wendover to Aylesbury that is 75+.
 
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