Masked and unmasked coaches

[island]

I really don’t want this to turn into yet another thread about the relative merits of face masks (and I am sure the moderation team won’t either) but consider this. From 19•JLY•21, what if TOCs had one or more separate coaches in which passengers would continue to be required to wear face coverings with the remainder of the train available for those who are not bothered? This seems to me like it would solve the intractable fight between people who like them and those who don’t, as well as having a place available for exempt passengers who would not be at risk of conflict.

I’d really like to focus on the concept rather than the implementation issues such as how to handle it on a 139.

 

[davews]

Being legally exempt (at least under the present rules) it would make no difference to me, I would get on the first carriage in front of me, maybe even the masked one to make a point.

 

[43066]

I really don’t want this to turn into yet another thread about the relative merits of face masks (and I am sure the moderation team won’t either) but consider this. From 19•JLY•21, what if TOCs had one or more separate coaches in which passengers would continue to be required to wear face coverings with the remainder of the train available for those who are not bothered? This seems to me like it would solve the intractable fight between people who like them and those who don’t, as well as having a place available for exempt passengers who would not be at risk of conflict.

I’d really like to focus on the concept rather than the implementation issues such as how to handle it on a 139.

I can see the logic of it, but overall it’s an absolutely terrible concept, in my view, because it’s just further entrenching difference and disagreement. What we need to do is pull together to get back to “normal”, where masks are something people can wear if they choose.

There will be a small subset of people who are both exempt from wearing masks, but who believe masks work and are terrified of Covid, so would it be right to force them to travel in the unmasked carriage?

As someone who is exempt from wearing a face covering, I would passionately resist any requirement to travel in a designated carriage like some sort of leper: I demand the right to travel in any carriage I wish to!

 

[NorthOxonian]

I wouldn't mind it happening - it could certainly diffuse tensions. I would sit in the unmasked coach because the main issue with masks for me is psychological - I don't like being surrounded by people wearing them so would move to avoid this.

Incidentally, while I know the focus in this thread isn't on the implementation, I'd point out that you could probably have something similar on double decker (though not single decker) buses. It would make sense to have the upper deck unmasked, because of better ventilation up there, and the fact younger people (who are generally less likely to care about masks) tend to use the top deck anyway.

 

[island]

I can see the logic of it, but overall it’s an absolutely terrible concept, in my view, because it’s just further entrenching difference and disagreement. What we need to do is pull together to get back to “normal”, where masks are something people can wear if they choose.

I see this as a stepping stone rather than a permanent situation for the avoidance of doubt.

There will be a small subset of people who are both exempt from wearing masks, but who believe masks work and are terrified of Covid, so would it be right to force them to travel in the unmasked carriage?

I think that’s rejecting a good solution because it’s not perfect and ending up with a worse solution.

As someone who is exempt from wearing a face covering, I would passionately resist any requirement to travel in a designated carriage like some sort of leper: I demand the right to travel in any carriage I wish to!

Baby steps.

 

[DustyBin]

I’m exempt but it’s no mask for me. I find the sight of them quite depressing so I certainly don’t want to be surrounded by them. Plus people fiddle with them and leave them on tables etc. which is extremely unhygienic!

 

[nlogax]

Maybe add a 'sit wherever there are spaces' option. I genuinely don't give a damn if I have to wear a mask or not.

 

[Failed Unit]

As most trains are at least 2 coaches I think it would work. As I have joked on the other thread it should have a big scull and cross bones on the door. The problem is what happens on a 2 coach train if one coach is full and the other isn’t. Although it would give the best indication of public opinion.

 

[43066]

I see this as a stepping stone rather than a permanent situation for the avoidance of doubt.

If the last 16 months have taught us anything it’s that today’s “stepping stone” will become tomorrow’s immovable mountain/totemic issue/political football.

Evidence the fact we are currently more restricted than we were last year, when we had no vaccine. We urgently need fewer restrictions, not more. And I share the concern expressed elsewhere on the forum that authoritarian measures that are not gone by this summer might well be around for the long term.

I think that’s rejecting a good solution because it’s not perfect and ending up with a worse solution.

I think the only good solution, in fact *the only solution* if we want to resume life in a moderate, sensible, liberal society, is to move back to the scenario where we all mix as normal. If people want to wear masks, that’s their choice.
If others don’t, that’s their choice too.

Baby steps.

Mask-Apartheid is not the way to go!

 

[Ianno87]

I would sit wherever there was a seat available, and then:
-Wear a mask if it was the masked coach
-Wear a mask in the unmasked coach if it was busy

Surprised there is no "sit wherever because I don't care" option in the poll. Almost as if it's designed to be divisive...

A terrible idea, nonetheless.

 

[MattA7]

Another problem with a “masks mandatory” and “no masks required” coaches is it could create a social stigma. Pro restriction people would view the no mask coach as unhygienic and also the people that use them. Would the masks required coach also practice social distancing.

 

[island]

Surprised there is no "sit wherever because I don't care" option in the poll.

I’ve added one.

Almost as if it's designed to be divisive...

Casting aspersions does you no credit.

 

[greyman42]

Another problem with a “masks mandatory” and “no masks required” coaches is it could create a social stigma. Pro restriction people would view the no mask coach as unhygienic and also the people that use them. Would the masks required coach also practice social distancing.

I would imagine that people who will not be wearing a mask, such as myself, will not care less what pro restriction people think of them.

 

[DustyBin]

I would imagine that people who will not be wearing a mask, such as myself, will not care less what pro restriction people think of them.

Quite. I hold their opinion in such low regard as to not let it bother me. In truth I think a lot of them will come around over time, what the government has done to them is appalling and I can understand where their fear of normal life comes from, as frustrating as it is.

 

[Mag_seven]

What happens when a non masked person can't find a seat in the non masked coach so decides to take one one in the masked coach?

We have all seen the arguments over quiet coaches so this will just create more conflict for guards to have to deal with.

 

[nlogax]

What happens when a non masked person can't find a seat in the non masked coach so decides to take one one in the masked coach?

We have all seen the arguments over quiet coaches so this will just create more conflict for guards to have to deal with.

If you didn't care where you were sat then presumably you'd bring a mask in just in case.

 

[Cdd89]

If this solution were to be attempted, I expect there would be extreme disagreement over the proportion of the train allocated to each type of passenger, with accusations from both sides that people are being pressured into the “wrong” carriages due to their preferred type having too little space allocated. Additionally, if the mask-free carriages became more crowded than the masked ones, an assertion could be made that this is because people who don’t like masks also don’t value social distancing and the proportions shouldn’t be adjusted accordingly.

If these issues could somehow be surmounted (and that’s a big “if”), then I think it would be very positive; and indeed it could represent an improvement for those who wish to continue wearing masks, since levels of mask wearing are highly mixed at present (to put it mildly).

 

[greyman42]

Quite. I hold their opinion in such low regard as to not let it bother me. In truth I think a lot of them will come around over time, what the government has done to them is appalling and I can understand where their fear of normal life comes from, as frustrating as it is.

I struggle to understand how so many people have been so gullible to some of the scaremongering that has been going on.

 

[Ianno87]

If this solution were to be attempted, I expect there would be extreme disagreement over the proportion of the train allocated to each type of passenger, with accusations from both sides that people are being pressured into the “wrong” carriages due to their preferred type having too little space allocated. Additionally, if the mask-free carriages became more crowded than the masked ones, an assertion could be made that this is because people who don’t like masks also don’t value social distancing and the proportions shouldn’t be adjusted accordingly.

If these issues could somehow be surmounted (and that’s a big “if”), then I think it would be very positive; and indeed it could represent an improvement for those who wish to continue wearing masks, since levels of mask wearing are highly mixed at present (to put it mildly).

I suspect 80% of the population will be in the "don't care" box, and will wear a mask to sit anywhere on the train.

 

[Domh245]

I suspect 80% of the population will be in the "don't care" box, and will wear a mask to sit anywhere on the train.

I think it'd be more accurate to say they'd be prepared to wear a mask. A population that doesn't care won't put a mask on if they were in the hypothetical no-mask carriage, but wouldn't quibble putting one on if necessary

 

[102 fan]

This is an extremely bad idea. Facemasks have become a comfort blanket for some in this country, and the sooner they realise that's all they are, the better.

To all the pro mask people, did the wearing of masks bring cases down? Yes or no?

 

[DustyBin]

This is an extremely bad idea. Facemasks have become a comfort blanket for some in this country, and the sooner they realise that's all they are, the better.

To all the pro mask people, did the wearing of masks bring cases down? Yes or no?

You’re quite correct in what you say, however to be clear I’m not sure @island is actually suggesting we have segregated coaches. I don’t think anybody actually wants that (maybe a few nutters do but they’re better ignored!).

Edited to add: sorry @102 fan the above wasn’t aimed at you specifically I was just pointing out to everybody that this is a poll not a suggestion (that’s how I interpreted it anyway).

 

[bramling]

I really don’t want this to turn into yet another thread about the relative merits of face masks (and I am sure the moderation team won’t either) but consider this. From 19•JLY•21, what if TOCs had one or more separate coaches in which passengers would continue to be required to wear face coverings with the remainder of the train available for those who are not bothered? This seems to me like it would solve the intractable fight between people who like them and those who don’t, as well as having a place available for exempt passengers who would not be at risk of conflict.

I’d really like to focus on the concept rather than the implementation issues such as how to handle it on a 139.

I’ve voted other. For the reason that this would pee me off enough such that it would be another reason to avoid using rail at the moment.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Another problem with a “masks mandatory” and “no masks required” coaches is it could create a social stigma. Pro restriction people would view the no mask coach as unhygienic and also the people that use them. Would the masks required coach also practice social distancing.

Well if you read the published opinion polls that have you believe the majority plan to continue wearing masks after July 19, the "masks required" coaches will be unable to practice social distancing, as they'll be crammed in like sheep sardines, while the others have lots of fresh air that I'll be enjoying...

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Personally, I'd just sit wherever has the fewest people - not because of COVID-19 related reasons, but simply because I appreciate my personal space...

 

[dk1]

More concerned that this causes unnecessary problems for the conductor. They would only be able to advise not enforce as now.

 

[WelshBluebird]

As with any "specialist coach" ideas (family coaches etc), the problem this idea has is that it just causes needless issues when trains are busy (and despite the overall passenger numbers - some trains are very busy).

 

[greyman42]

This is an extremely bad idea. Facemasks have become a comfort blanket for some in this country, and the sooner they realise that's all they are, the better.

To all the pro mask people, did the wearing of masks bring cases down? Yes or no?

I hate masks, but the best answer i can give to your question would be, it appears not.
I don't know if you are going to get any replies from the pro maskers.