Mass Brawl on Ebbw Vale train 12/11

[PHILIPE]

Following Rugby at Cardiff, 2N29 1936 Cardiff Cen to Ebbw Vale running 19 mins late diverted into Newport for police attendance due to mass brawl on the train and the train crew being assaulted. This was shown on Journey Check as an operational incident but unlike the usual pattern, went on to to explain what the incident was. Said would attempt to try and resource additional crew if this was required. Train eventually left Newport at 2053 but will turn back at Cross Keys due late running and single line occupation. Buses will run from Cross Keys.

 

[J-2739]

Geez, hope they're ok.

 

[bnm]

The guard was assaulted and had his glasses broken.

 

[Dai Corner]

Nasty incident. I hope all staff and passengers not involved in the brawl are ok.

According to RTT 2N29 is the WTT 1947 SO Newport to Ebbw Vale, though there is an STP 2O10 1934 Cardiff Central to Newport. Were these the same train tonight?

Wales online are reporting the incident

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-breaking-news-plus-live-12164637

 

[Carlisle]

Hope everyone's ok, it kinda defies that stereotypical view that thugs are always football fans rather than rugby supporters

 

[PHILIPE]

Nasty incident. I hope all staff and passengers not involved in the brawl are ok.

According to RTT 2N29 is the WTT 1947 SO Newport to Ebbw Vale, though there is an STP 2O10 1934 Cardiff Central to Newport. Were these the same train tonight?

Wales online are reporting the incident

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-breaking-news-plus-live-12164637

Yes. It was the same train. I think that because it was diverted via Newport, a stop which would not have been picked up in RTT because it's not in the schedule but decided should be required. In other words a way of altering the schedule. Please don't ask me to try and explain further

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Hope everyone's ok, it kinda defies that stereotypical view that thugs are always football fans rather than rugby supporters

Thoughts are with the train crew involved.

I'd much rather have a platform/train full of football fans than rugby fans any day. I know this was Wales, but in England the rugger buggers are not just drunk, they're ignorant public school boys with a "I am superior to you" attitude to rail staff. At least football fans talk to you on a reasonably respectful level.

Now cricket: take everything that is objectionable about rugby fans and add into this 12 hours of drinking in the sun.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Thoughts are with the train crew involved.

I'd much rather have a platform/train full of football fans than rugby union fans any day. I know this was Wales, but in England the rugger buggers are not just drunk, they're ignorant public school boys with a "I am superior to you" attitude to rail staff. At least football fans talk to you on a reasonably respectful level.

Now cricket: take everything that is objectionable about rugby union fans and add into this 12 hours of drinking in the sun.

Edited for accuracy (my bold)!

 

[Greenback]

Hope everyone's ok, it kinda defies that stereotypical view that thugs are always football fans rather than rugby supporters

Many of those who go to Cardiff on rugby international days are not rugby supporters at all. They are just out to have a big day out, get hammered, take selfies of themselves and have a scrap on the way home. A lot of them don't even go top the game itself.

The real rugby fans are those who go to club rugby matches, play the game, coach youngsters, and actually know something about the rules.

 

[fgwrich]

Well thanks for the stereotyping of us Rugby fans in one of the above comments? Have you ever been to one of our games? Have you been on a train where is Rugby fans have been fighting? Have you met any of us? I'm state school educated by the way, I play the sport, volunteer and my club, train twice weekly and have loved the sport for many years. I've never been to a game or on a train where there has been any trouble - I'm not denying it probably doesn't happen, but a lot less often. Most people going to the likes of the 6 Nations or Internationals are not proper fans and as Greenback mentions, are more the type who go there for a day out starting drinking fairly early on in the day. By contrast, I've been on trains to and from London where I've seen abusive behaviour by drinking football fans at 9 in the morning. Dry Trains on football days is one of the best features my local TOC has done.

And besides, tell me how many rugby grounds separate their fans because they can't get on like the football fans eh?

Many of those who go to Cardiff on rugby international days are not rugby supporters at all. They are just out to have a big day out, get hammered, take selfies of themselves and have a scrap on the way home. A lot of them don't even go top the game itself.

The real rugby fans are those who go to club rugby matches, play the game, coach youngsters, and actually know something about the rules.

Exactly this. Thank You Greenback for you post.

Now, can we go back to the original subject of the thread. I hope the guard is ok, please bear in mind that a weekend like Super Saturday will bring out the drinkers more than any other weekend.

 

[43096]

Well thanks for the stereotyping of us Rugby fans in one of the above comments? Have you ever been to one of our games? Have you been on a train where is Rugby fans have been fighting? Have you met any of us? I'm state school educated by the way, I play the sport, volunteer and my club, train twice weekly and have loved the sport for many years. I've never been to a game or on a train where there has been any trouble - I'm not denying it probably doesn't happen, but a lot less often. Most people going to the likes of the 6 Nations or Internationals are not proper fans and as Greenback mentions, are more the type who go there for a day out starting drinking fairly early on in the day. By contrast, I've been on trains to and from London where I've seen abusive behaviour by drinking football fans at 9 in the morning. Dry Trains on football days is one of the best features my local TOC has done.



And besides, tell me how many rugby grounds separate their fans because they can't get on like the football fans eh?









Exactly this. Thank You Greenback for you post.



Now, can we go back to the original subject of the thread. I hope the guard is ok, please bear in mind that a weekend like Super Saturday will bring out the drinkers more than any other weekend.

Oh, aren't the egg chasing mob so superior...

The reality is that trouble is more likely when you get groups of men, and then add alcohol. Football, rugby, racing, railtours etc etc.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Some time ago I was on an early Saturday morning train from Shoreham to Victoria. It was full and I sneaked on to a seat on a three across, making the tenth occupant of the bay. The chap to my right was perfectly nice, but between SSE and East Croyden got on the outside of 6 (read it and weep) cans of Stella. As we were pulling in to ECR one of the others formed the impression that my bibulous seat mate was not quiet the ticket. "Are you feeling sick?" he enquired solicitously. I looked forward to an immediate and catagorical "No", but my neighbour was ominously silent. They got off at Clapham Jn, to my relief, change for some place called Twickenham but without further incident.

 

[Minilad]

Well thanks for the stereotyping of us Rugby fans in one of the above comments? Have you ever been to one of our games? Have you been on a train where is Rugby fans have been fighting? Have you met any of us? I'm state school educated by the way, I play the sport, volunteer and my club, train twice weekly and have loved the sport for many years. I've never been to a game or on a train where there has been any trouble - I'm not denying it probably doesn't happen, but a lot less often. Most people going to the likes of the 6 Nations or Internationals are not proper fans and as Greenback mentions, are more the type who go there for a day out starting drinking fairly early on in the day. By contrast, I've been on trains to and from London where I've seen abusive behaviour by drinking football fans at 9 in the morning. Dry Trains on football days is one of the best features my local TOC has done.

And besides, tell me how many rugby grounds separate their fans because they can't get on like the football fans eh?




Exactly this. Thank You Greenback for you post.

Now, can we go back to the original subject of the thread. I hope the guard is ok, please bear in mind that a weekend like Super Saturday will bring out the drinkers more than any other weekend.

Welcome to the world of a football fan. So often stereotyped by holier than thou arrogant rugby fans.

Hope the guard soon recovers

 

[Greenback]

This really shouldn't become a football fan v rugby fan argument. The fact is that trouble makers come form all walks of life and attend all sorts of different events.

However, I can speak from personal experience that a lot of people go to Cardiff on international days purely for the atmosphere and the drinking. They have little or no interest in the game. I know plenty of people who just go up to Cardiff to get blotto.

I've also been to football matches where there hasn't been a hint of trouble, outside or inside the ground. So let's stop the stereotyping completely, please.

 

[mrcheek]

Cant help thinking that if this was football fans it would be the main headline on the national news

 

[pompeyfan]

The impression I get from colleagues is that the worst type of rugby game is Army V Navy, there's something about the day that makes some members of our armed forces (and their families) act like absolute cretins.

I've not yet had to endure it, but I know it won't be long.

 

[Dai Corner]

Do they ban/ discourage drinking in the queues outside Central station?

I would have thought it would be a good idea if they did, to allow people to sober up before boarding the trains.

 

[Kite159]

The impression I get from colleagues is that the worst type of rugby game is Army V Navy, there's something about the day that makes some members of our armed forces (and their families) act like absolute cretins.

I've not yet had to endure it, but I know it won't be long.

Agreed there

(Coming from a place which is heavily Army so the last couple services back towards Salisbury on Army V Navy games are a bit lively due to drunken behaviour)

 

[Dieseldriver]

From personal experience as train crew, I have had many more issues with rugby fans than football fans.

 

[talltim]

Bet you never have problems with drunken hordes of sewing fans, or cooking fans, or even model railway fans...
It's strange how supporting so many sports involves getting unfit to walk, let alone actually be able to play the game

 

[Bookd]

Whilst not really railway related I have been in Twickenham when the Army v Navy match is on, and it could be tricky. On that day as well as the usual Met Police you will see representatives and vehicles from the Military Police and Naval Provost, so serving individuals may take care not to cause trouble when they are about!

 

[Spankthemonkey]

Whilst not really railway related I have been in Twickenham when the Army v Navy match is on, and it could be tricky. On that day as well as the usual Met Police you will see representatives and vehicles from the Military Police and Naval Provost, so serving individuals may take care not to cause trouble when they are about!

Not my experience!
Was out and about in Richmond a few years back after one army/navy game, never has the phrase "it was like a war zone" been more apt. Bet the guards On SWT trains don't leave their cabs unless the passcomm gets pulled on those nights.

 

[6Gman]

The impression I get from colleagues is that the worst type of rugby game is Army V Navy, there's something about the day that makes some members of our armed forces (and their families) act like absolute cretins.

I've not yet had to endure it, but I know it won't be long.

The inter-hospital matches at Twickenham used to be notorious for bad behaviour.

(Gross drunkenness rather than violence.)

 

[al78]

Bet you never have problems with drunken hordes of sewing fans, or cooking fans, or even model railway fans...
It's strange how supporting so many sports involves getting unfit to walk, let alone actually be able to play the game

It is a minority that are irresponsible and cause problems. It is unfortunate that some people find it necessary to apply labels to others, put them in a box and judge them all by the actions of a few. I have little time for stereotypes, I see them as something used by those that are either too lazy or too stupid to think objectively.

 

[6Gman]

This really shouldn't become a football fan v rugby fan argument. The fact is that trouble makers come form all walks of life and attend all sorts of different events.

However, I can speak from personal experience that a lot of people go to Cardiff on international days purely for the atmosphere and the drinking. They have little or no interest in the game. I know plenty of people who just go up to Cardiff to get blotto.

I've also been to football matches where there hasn't been a hint of trouble, outside or inside the ground. So let's stop the stereotyping completely, please.

Given that the match didn't kick off until after 17.30 I'm a little surprised that any fans caught the 1936 off Central.

 

[Antman]

Well thanks for the stereotyping of us Rugby fans in one of the above comments? Have you ever been to one of our games? Have you been on a train where is Rugby fans have been fighting? Have you met any of us? I'm state school educated by the way, I play the sport, volunteer and my club, train twice weekly and have loved the sport for many years. I've never been to a game or on a train where there has been any trouble - I'm not denying it probably doesn't happen, but a lot less often. Most people going to the likes of the 6 Nations or Internationals are not proper fans and as Greenback mentions, are more the type who go there for a day out starting drinking fairly early on in the day. By contrast, I've been on trains to and from London where I've seen abusive behaviour by drinking football fans at 9 in the morning. Dry Trains on football days is one of the best features my local TOC has done.

And besides, tell me how many rugby grounds separate their fans because they can't get on like the football fans eh?




Exactly this. Thank You Greenback for you post.

Now, can we go back to the original subject of the thread. I hope the guard is ok, please bear in mind that a weekend like Super Saturday will bring out the drinkers more than any other weekend.

Absolutely, far too much stereotyping on here, I was at Twickenham yesterday and I didn't see any hint of trouble.

 

[ainsworth74]

Speaking from a passengers perspective I have found Rugby fans to be much more preferable to travel with than football fans.

As for this incident I hope that the perpetrators receive the punishment that they deserve and that the train crew are alright.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Speaking from a passengers perspective I have found Rugby fans to be much more preferable to travel with than football fans.

As for this incident I hope that the perpetrators receive the punishment that they deserve and that the train crew are alright.

In my experience - Cardiff in the late 70's and Wembley Central in the mid 90's - football fans were much worse than rugby fans - the latter may well have had "drink taken" but were generally well relaxed and amenable.

One of my best ones was a French rugby fan who was desperate to get back to Waterloo and approached me as "le Chef de Gare" , imploring to get back to Paris as his wife thought he was decorating the house (he had cleared off see Wales thrashed) , and things were very tight , I spoke to an old school Bakerloo motorman who agreed to give him a cab ride - so he climbed in over the coupling and the front cab door with much appreciations of Anglo- Welsh - French companionship. We were averaging about 800 passengers a 313 that afternoon - and worse on the 72TS....

 

[6Gman]

In my experience - Cardiff in the late 70's and Wembley Central in the mid 90's - football fans were much worse than rugby fans - the latter may well have had "drink taken" but were generally well relaxed and amenable.

One of my best ones was a French rugby fan who was desperate to get back to Waterloo and approached me as "le Chef de Gare" , imploring to get back to Paris as his wife thought he was decorating the house (he had cleared off see Wales thrashed) , and things were very tight , I spoke to an old school Bakerloo motorman who agreed to give him a cab ride - so he climbed in over the coupling and the front cab door with much appreciations of Anglo- Welsh - French companionship. We were averaging about 800 passengers a 313 that afternoon - and worse on the 72TS....

French fans are usually very entertaining. Was on a Glasgow - Euston one Sunday the day after Toulouse had won the Heineken Cup at Murrayfield.

We stopped at Rugby!

Cue 30 French fans piling off the train to take a group photo under the station sign while platform staff desperately tried to shepherd them back on board while the remaining (British) passengers reacted with either bemusement or amusement.

 

[507021]

My thoughts are with those involved and I wish them a speedy recovery.

I was in Cardiff yesterday (not for the rugby), I concur that the atmosphere in the city is outstanding whenever there's a sport event.