Maximum speed for a train over a failed level crossing with barriers raised and a hand signaller controlling road traffic?

[Virgin Voyager]

I'm not sure wether it would happen theese days. However I'm playing TSW3 at the moment (call me sad if you want) and the game has glytched, leaving a level crossing raised with barriers up. Am I allowed to proceed over it if this was in real life (with the conditions stated above) and if so at what speed?

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I expect IRL the answer is call the signaller to report it and await their instruction?

 

[CAF397]

In short (there are various types of level crossings). The signaller will provide the relevant instructions. Approach the crossing cautiously, obeying the hand signal (if provided). Stop short of the crossing, sound the horn continuously until the nose of the train is on the crossing, so very slowly.

If at night and no Road lights, ECS trains turn on all carriage lights. Freight trains not allowed unless arrangements made to stop Road traffic passing over the crossing.

 

[Trainguy34]

I remember seeing this on Paddington 24/7, the 1st train stopped & reported then they had a repair team come out and trains went through at reduced (45 Mph? ) speeds with the repair teams stopping traffic

 

[ComUtoR]

What type of crossing is it ?

 

[Virgin Voyager]

Yep thanks for that. I'm aware of the different types of crossing. I think this one is a Controlled CCTV crossing. Think I've heard something about the freight rules at night before. Must be very frustrating for the driver! Thanks for that

 

[endofthetunnel]

IRL the crossing is taken on local control and barriers lowered manually rather than a handsignaller just standing there with open barriers.

The rules above about ECSs with lights on etc only apply to AOCLs / AOCL-Bs or ABCLs - crossings which are locally monitored and are not controlled or monitored by a signaller

 

[66701GBRF]

A hand signaller would never be provided to control road traffic. If the barriers are failed raised but the lights are still working then you can proceed at caution under signallers instruction. If the barriers AND lights are not working then no rail movements permitted at all untill crossing taken on local control.

 

[BrummieBobby]

This happened a while back at a CCTV crossing that I was controlling (Barriers failed in the raised position, red road signal working correctly)

Instructions I gave to the two trains I had to stop at the crossing where:

1. Explain the situation (Failure of level crossing equipment, barriers raised, red road signal is lit. As a result of the barrier failure, the signal will not clear due to the interlocking on the crossing.)
2. When authorised, pass the protecting signal at danger, proceed with caution through the section, only cross the crossing if you deem it safe to do so, be prepared to stop short.
3. Obey all other signals.

Thankfully the failure occurred at 23:30 and as a result the passenger service was nearly finished for the day and the road was quiet. It would have been a headache had it occurred at 17:00 with the road busy!

 

[Annetts key]

Let me be absolutely clear. It’s the flashing red road lights (wig-wags) or the continuously lit red light (for MSL type crossings) or the stop signs that are the authority to stop road traffic.

Crossing attendants, hand signallers, engineering staff, indeed any railway staff have absolutely no authority to stop road traffic, or to give permission for road traffic to cross the level crossing if the red road lights are showing.

Only police have the authority to control road traffic, that is to stop traffic (see also post #14 below).

As for the train, BrummieBobby has answered the question. If the red road lights are working (or at least, enough of them), then the road traffic should obey them. The train driver has to be cautioned because the signaller will be unable to clear the signal, even if there are staff on site at the crossing who can confirm that the road traffic is stopped and the crossing is clear.

Edited to clarify what I meant.

 

[Efini92]

A hand signaller would never be provided to control road traffic. If the barriers are failed raised but the lights are still working then you can proceed at caution under signallers instruction. If the barriers AND lights are not working then no rail movements permitted at all untill crossing taken on local control.

Depends on the type of crossing.
AOCL and ABCL you would proceed.

 

[P Binnersley]

There was a barrier failure locally (bus took out barrier) at a controlled CCTV crossing and the police (local & BTP) closed the road while the signalman authorised trains past the controlling signals.

 

[CAF397]

Only the police have the authority to STOP Road traffic. They do not have the authority to CONTROL Road traffic over a failed level crossing, especially if the red lights are still flashing.

Only police have the authority to control road traffic.

 

[Annetts key]

Only the police have the authority to STOP Road traffic. They do not have the authority to CONTROL Road traffic over a failed level crossing, especially if the red lights are still flashing.

I never intended my wording to imply that police could authorise road traffic to cross a level crossing when the red road traffic lights were still showing red (although in practice, be careful you don’t argue with a police officer).

If the red road traffic lights are continuing to show, if using local control (where provided) or emergency controls (where provided) fails to extinguish red road traffic lights, the correct method is to ask the S&T to attend. Either to investigate and repair any fault. Or, with suitable permission from the controlling signaller, disconnect the red road traffic lights (hence extinguishing them).

 

[LAX54]

Let me be absolutely clear. It’s the flashing red road lights (wig-wags) or the continuously lit red light (for MSL type crossings) or the stop signs that are the authority to stop road traffic.

Crossing attendants, hand signallers, engineering staff, indeed any railway staff have absolutely no authority to stop road traffic, or to give permission for road traffic to cross the level crossing if the red road lights are showing. Only police have the authority to control road traffic.

As for the train, BrummieBobby has answered the question. If the red road lights are working (or at least, enough of them), then the road traffic should obey them. The train driver has to be cautioned because the signaller will be unable to clear the signal, even if there are staff on site at the crossing who can confirm that the road traffic is stopped and the crossing is clear.

and the Police cannot authorise any road traffic over any level crossing if the red lights are flashing.

 

[sharpener]

and the Police cannot authorise any road traffic over any level crossing if the red lights are flashing.

On the one hand I would be loth not to comply with a police officer directing traffic.

OTOH no way would I drive onto a crossing where the red lights were flashing. How would he know the nature of the fault? At Foxton which I use reasonably often you cannot see in either direction because it is on the diagonal and the station buildings are in the way.

As for the total idiots filmed at Elsenham recently, words fail me, do they not know the history of that crossing?

 

[LAX54]

On the one hand I would be loth not to comply with a police officer directing traffic.

OTOH no way would I drive onto a crossing where the red lights were flashing. How would he know the nature of the fault? At Foxton which I use reasonably often you cannot see in either direction because it is on the diagonal and the station buildings are in the way.

As for the total idiots filmed at Elsenham recently, words fail me, do they not know the history of that crossing?

I got the impression with the video from Elsenham, that they were trying to blame NR for their actions ! bypassing locked gate, going down ramp, past a sign stopping them, and over a cattle grid, where they coukd have broken an ankle or got stuck, and been struck by a train ! No one seems to want to take responsibility for themselves anymore

 

[Lockwood]

I remember playing years back and finding a glitches crossing. Police car on the line ahead as it is bumbling across the line. Sound horn, whack it into emergency, hit the car right in the NSF half, car keeps plodding along.

Got penalised heavily for that. Unnecessary use of horn. Unnecessary use of emergency brake. Delay at every station after that.

 

[ruaival]

In Northumberland travelling GNER on the stretch from Newcastle to Berwick-upon-Tweed I recall a couple of occasions where train stopped just prior and just after the series of automatic half barrier crossings so that the guard could assist the driver passing through at walking pace.

My memory was of some kind of power failure, but reading the above comments regarding rights (and practicalities) of controlling two way road traffic I wonder of it was just CCTV feed that was affected.

Journey time was badly affected by the half dozen or do crossings on that section.

 

[Annetts key]

If a manually controlled crossing monitored by CCTV sufferers from a failure of the CCTV system (rare, because two cameras and two monitors are provided), all that is required, is a level crossing attendant.

The level crossing attendant just needs to keep the signaller informed when the crossing is free of road traffic, then once the barriers have lowered, confirm that the crossing is clear.

Alternatively, the level crossing attendant can take local control (a local control box) of the crossing.

Normally automatic half barrier crossings don’t have CCTV. The signaller just gets indications that either show the crossing is in a normal / operational state, or is in a failed state. A local power failure will cause the crossing to show failed (that’s IIRC), but the crossing should continue to work on the battery supply (at least for some hours).

With a manually controlled crossing monitored by CCTV, a local loss of mains power will result in the crossing illumination flood lights failing. The rest of the crossing equipment may not be affected if powered from the signalling 650V supply. Or if the battery charger is fed from the local mains supply, the signaller will get a ‘power failure’ alarm. The crossing should continue to work on the battery supply (at least for some hours).

However, during the hours of darkness, without illumination from the flood lights, the CCTV picture will not be good enough for the signaller to see if the crossing is clear…

 

[endofthetunnel]

Normally automatic half barrier crossings don’t have CCTV. The signaller just gets indications that either show the crossing is in a normal / operational state, or is in a failed state. A local power failure will cause the crossing to show failed (that’s IIRC), but the crossing should continue to work on the battery supply (at least for some hours).

…. Or if the battery charger is fed from the local mains supply, the signaller will get a ‘power failure’ alarm. The crossing should continue to work on the battery supply (at least for some hours).

Normal working is allowed for 6 hours after power failure, then caution trains over AHBCs as the batteries may fail.

In regards to needing a guard’s assistance I can’t think of any driver rules which require this, certainly zero that need them to stop again beyond a crossing.