• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

May 2022 Timetable Changes

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jim

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2005
Messages
3,398
Location
Wick
The withdrawal of the GWR trains to Brighton gives Southern a free hand to implement its own services over that route without needing to accommodate an off pattern service.

The process of removing these awkward services will in time be seen to be advantageous to passengers with a leaner, less anomalous railway operation.
Yet the 1428 Southampton to Brighton which used to be looped at Worthing for 1O98 the PM Brighton, still sits in the back platform at Worthing waiting for nothing to go round it!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
3,905
Yet the 1428 Southampton to Brighton which used to be looped at Worthing for 1O98 the PM Brighton, still sits in the back platform at Worthing waiting for nothing to go round it!

The removal of GWR services from Brighton was quite a late change, the Southern services will be tided up in the December change with oddities such as these removed.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,155
Location
West of Andover
They could hardly get much lower when it's little more than a Parliamentary service. Lopping these near-useless services out first does make sense. If anyone whines they can always be offered a taxi, and one is likely to be quite sufficient.
Agreed, as it will only affect anybody wanting Ince & Elton. Anybody for Ellesmere Port from Helsby (or vice versa) will probably be told to go via Chester.

And how many genuine passengers will there be for Ince & Elton, most of the local residents will treat the railway like it doesn't exist.

Better to use the staff on a service which more passengers will use (ie a Manchester via Hale)
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,945
Location
UK
Agreed, as it will only affect anybody wanting Ince & Elton. Anybody for Ellesmere Port from Helsby (or vice versa) will probably be told to go via Chester.

And how many genuine passengers will there be for Ince & Elton, most of the local residents will treat the railway like it doesn't exist.

Better to use the staff on a service which more passengers will use (ie a Manchester via Hale)
Ellesmere Ports are Liverpool crewed, so it would be an additional Wigan stopper rather than a Cheshire Lines service, but yes.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I know someone who doesn't mind long distance rail travel at all, as long as it doesn't involve boarding at London Euston. They can't stand it and will literally drive for four or five hours to avoid it, even if the fuel ends up costing more and they're stuck in traffic. I can't exactly say that I blame them.

The station itself is fine but the unnecessary and outdated method of operation (the "Euston scrum") is both horrible and hugely discriminatory against anyone who is not quick on their feet. I can't blame anyone for wanting to do anything to avoid that.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,327
Location
Cricklewood
I'm taking the SN1306 train and just heard that someone get caught with an invalid ticket because the train arrives too early for the ticket to be valid.

Before the timetable change, this train arrived London at 10:48 - the first valid departure for a super off-peak ticket along the line, but now it arrives at 10:44, making such ticket invalid (not valid before 10:45 into London). As the result the inspector told her to leave the train at the next station.

It's unfortunate that the timetable change is used as a mean to increase fare by retiming the arrival into London just a few minutes earlier to make it before the cut off.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,945
Location
UK
I'm taking the SN1306 train and just heard that someone get caught with an invalid ticket because the train arrives too early for the ticket to be valid.

Before the timetable change, this train arrived London at 10:48 - the first valid departure for a super off-peak ticket along the line, but now it arrives at 10:44, making such ticket invalid (not valid before 10:45 into London). As the result the inspector told her to leave the train at the next station.

It's unfortunate that the timetable change is used as a mean to increase fare by retiming the arrival into London just a few minutes earlier to make it before the cut off.
Just for information, quoting the RSID makes it very difficult to work out what train you are referring to. I would suggest referencing a headcode, operator and departure time instead, or operator, departure time, origin and destination. :)

But yes, this is a very harsh practice. It means that passengers from Southampton must now arrive into London and hour later if they want to take advantage of Southern's cheap Super Off-Peak Day Return ticket.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Just for information, quoting the RSID makes it very difficult to work out what train you are referring to. I would suggest referencing a headcode, operator and departure time instead, or operator, departure time, origin and destination. :)

But yes, this is a very harsh practice. It means that passengers from Southampton must now arrive into London and hour later if they want to take advantage of Southern's cheap Super Off-Peak Day Return ticket.

It is, but it'll as often happen that a train is pulled earlier and becomes valid. It's just a bit random, though annoying if it affects yours.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,945
Location
UK
It is, but it'll as often happen that a train is pulled earlier and becomes valid. It's just a bit random, though annoying if it affects yours.
A customer focused TOC would arrange for an easement to be applied. It's not as if the times of all trains on the route are now 20 minutes earlier or something, in which case I'd understand it a bit more.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,327
Location
Cricklewood
A customer focused TOC would arrange for an easement to be applied. It's not as if the times of all trains on the route are now 20 minutes earlier or something, in which case I'd understand it a bit more.
The time was unchanged all the way into Clapham Junction, just a few minutes of allowance were taken out into Victoria - and now that super off-peak tickets to Clapham Junction are no longer valid despite no timing change has happened.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,265
The removal of GWR services from Brighton was quite a late change, the Southern services will be tided up in the December change with oddities such as these removed.
I noticed the GW services still appear on RTT if you view with the CAN option switched on.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
The station itself is fine but the unnecessary and outdated method of operation (the "Euston scrum") is both horrible and hugely discriminatory against anyone who is not quick on their feet. I can't blame anyone for wanting to do anything to avoid that.
Exactly.
 

Wilts Wanderer

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2016
Messages
2,463
I noticed the GW services still appear on RTT if you view with the CAN option switched on.

Yes the paths are being retained on DfT instruction until December. Its unclear why in this specific case but I think its part of a wider policy throughout Covid and hasn't worked through yet.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,866
Location
Airedale
It's unfortunate that the timetable change is used as a mean to increase fare by retiming the arrival into London just a few minutes earlier to make it before the cut off.
Most people would welcome a train getting a better path and arriving earlier :)

But yes, someone should prompt Southern to issue an easement, for which there is plenty of precedent.
 

317 forever

Established Member
Joined
21 Aug 2010
Messages
2,544
Location
North West
A brilliant example of this is Southern binning the entire class 455 fleet and cutting numerous metro services and shortening others to achieve this. They might as well have binned the 455s in March 2020. Meanwhile the Dutch railways started running extra services in December 2021, e.g. an Intercity every 10 minutes from Utrecht to Arnhem. Totally different mindset.
This suggests that it's a pity Southern is not run by Abellio :lol:

Stoke to Manchester commuters have a choice between Avanti (fast, 9/11 carriage 390) or Northern (stopper, 3 carriage 323). Why do they need a financial incentive to use the faster, more comfortable trains? The Industry is just throwing away revenue by continuing to offer these discounted Avanti-only tickets.
There are cheap Advance tickets with Northern on that route.
 

ValleyLines142

Established Member
Joined
25 Jul 2011
Messages
6,844
Location
Gloucester
I am delighted that while 1330/1430 Cardiff Portsmouth have remained 4-158, the new TT change has swapped the 1530 from 3-166 to 2-158+3-158. Not only do I get another 158 diagram but a 5 car one.
Thank goodness for that. Nothing irritated me more on Thursday than seeing a 2-car 165, with no tables whatsoever, on a Malvern to Weymouth service but a 3-car 158 on Avonmouths.

I understand GWR are thinking about the capacity more than anything but the 166s are totally unacceptable for such long distance journeys unless its declassified First Class.

Put the 165s/166s on local Bristol services and the 158s on the more express services!
 

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
3,905
Thank goodness for that. Nothing irritated me more on Thursday than seeing a 2-car 165, with no tables whatsoever, on a Malvern to Weymouth service but a 3-car 158 on Avonmouths.

I understand GWR are thinking about the capacity more than anything but the 166s are totally unacceptable for such long distance journeys unless its declassified First Class.

Put the 165s/166s on local Bristol services and the 158s on the more express services!

As has been said main times before there aren’t enough 158s to cover all the Portsmouth to Cardiff Services, also some of these services double up as Bristol commuter services - the 158s being specifically timed to avoid these.

You won’t find 3 car 158s diagrammed on the Avonmouths, if you have seen one on there this would likely have been due to a set swap on the day or maybe a unit low on miles.
 

ValleyLines142

Established Member
Joined
25 Jul 2011
Messages
6,844
Location
Gloucester
As has been said main times before there aren’t enough 158s to cover all the Portsmouth to Cardiff Services, also some of these services double up as Bristol commuter services - the 158s being specifically timed to avoid these.

You won’t find 3 car 158s diagrammed on the Avonmouths, if you have seen one on there this would likely have been due to a set swap on the day or maybe a unit low on miles.
I know, it's just a shame really as comfort is compromised. Thankfully as I no longer live in Cardiff I don't have to deal with it anymore.
 

Jim

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2005
Messages
3,398
Location
Wick
I know, it's just a shame really as comfort is compromised. Thankfully as I no longer live in Cardiff I don't have to deal with it anymore.
158s are never put on the Avonmouth/Beach willingly I shouldn't think, but suspect it's always more of a last resort, sadly displaced units are a lot harder to move off of these diagrams now, as there is of course more circuits now they interwork with Weston and the Bristol - Filton fresh air trains.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top