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May 2023 changes

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mangyiscute

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Presumably there's a comparison with e.g. overnight services Paddington - Reading.
Yeah I've used the 03:54 Reading to Paddington and it is usually surprisingly well used - it is also just a 2 coach since it's the train that will form the Greenford shuttle, but a decent number of railway staff (GWR and TfL mainly) use it alongside quite a few normal passengers - I once had a conversation with someone who had to get to the office super early so took that train daily.
 
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sk688

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I used the 0330 once and it was mostly London Underground staff!

0134 is very quiet other than on Fridays - I've used it a couple of times after work nights out. The only day that really justifies it is Saturday, when it doesn't run!

Both services were very useful for me just recently , when I fell asleep on the 0134 which was delayed significantly at Wembley Yard , post a drinking session in London , and woke up near Leighton Buzzard having wanted Kings Langley. Guard just told me to travel back on the 0330 rather than charge anything extra for a new ticket.

Must say I did use the 134 very frequently when I was on placement in MK, but also working a few days in London, found it to be quite well loaded from Wednesday onwards.
 

Chris172

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I’m aware of this, I literally stated in my post that I was aware things have changed since covid

My point was, 2tph on a Sunday in 2023 is completely unacceptable

Tbh 2 tph is just about right, loadings are consistent throughout the day. There are usually a 6 car, couple of 5 cars and couple of 4 cars running (better than LM days where only 2 cars and 3 cars came out). I feel that the east side of the line (Dorridge (less so as Chiltern do run til 10pm) and Whitlocks End) could benefit an evening service.

Do keep in mind Sunday is overtime, don't think WMR want to do a massive timetable with the chance they can not cover it (Doing an Avanti).
 

NewClee153

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Tbh 2 tph is just about right, loadings are consistent throughout the day. There are usually a 6 car, couple of 5 cars and couple of 4 cars running (better than LM days where only 2 cars and 3 cars came out). I feel that the east side of the line (Dorridge (less so as Chiltern do run til 10pm) and Whitlocks End) could benefit an evening service.

Do keep in mind Sunday is overtime, don't think WMR want to do a massive timetable with the chance they can not cover it (Doing an Avanti).
Agree to disagree. People were standing on the service I got last Sunday, and it was 5 carriages.

Maybe not, but they'll be sure to market the changes as revolutionary
 

Liverpool 507

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Borderlands line was input at half hourly but now removed to hourly. I knew this wouldn’t be achievable but should have screenshot the page whilst I had the chance!
 

BrianB

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Borderlands line was input at half hourly but now removed to hourly. I knew this wouldn’t be achievable but should have screenshot the page whilst I had the chance!
This is what it was going to be. Havent got around to amending it to what it will actually be
 

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Greybeard33

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newtownmgr

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In the 22 February Rail North Committee meeting, Northern MD Nick Donovan said that Northern's May timetable will be broadly the same as now. This suggests there are not going further cuts beyond those already in RTT.

The meeting webcast can be viewed at
That’s good news. Any cuts at the moment are ridiculous given that passenger footfall is growing for the most part. Some companies are struggling to catch up with training post Covid, but things,certainly on the company i work for are improving on that front on a monthly basis. Any further cuts to service are purely politically motivated in my personal opinion to try & sell a narrative that the railways aren’t being used.
 

BrianB

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Advance previews of many of the May 2023 NRT tables are now viewable at https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/
Remaining tables will be added on a rolling basis over the coming weeks, and the usual caveat applies that they are ALL SUBJECT TO CHANGE between now and May, and none can be considered final until at least T-4 which is Sat 22 Apr.
 
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GoneSouth

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The 09:25 Penzance - Edinburgh starts at Plymouth at 11:27. After Newcastle it calls at Berwick-upon-Tweed then Edinburgh at 20:04.

There will be 2 Penzance - Edinburgh trains: 06:28 arriving at Edinburgh at 17:08 and an 08:37 arriving at around 19:10.
I’m going to assume this is a cynical attempt by XC to extract a few extra £ for increasing services.

I’ve used the 0925 Penzance many times over the years simply because the earlier train was always more expensive. It was always very busy by the time it got to Plymouth. Looks like they’ve said if we have to run them (which we don’t want to, and have moaned for years about it), then we’ll grab a few extra peak time £.

Disappointed by this, but…
Fortunately, GWR still have some good fares available so looks like I’ll be using them more in future.

This is in line with what I keep advocating, but keep getting shot down. Scrap Bradford - Leeds and divert Skipton - Bradford to Leeds.

Sorry for being off topic - I'll shut up now.
F*** Bradford, they don’t need trains. There seems to be a never ending kicking of Bradford by the railway!

They should be promoting not withdrawing services. I’ve done the Bradford FS to Leeds service a couple of times and it’s far nicer than the Interchange route. Much more reliable.
 
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Mitchell Hurd

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I’m going to assume this is a cynical attempt by XC to extract a few extra £ for increasing services.

I’ve used the 0925 Penzance many times over the years simply because the earlier train was always more expensive. It was always very busy by the time it got to Plymouth. Looks like they’ve said if we have to run them (which we don’t want to, and have moaned for years about it), then we’ll grab a few extra peak time £.

Disappointed by this, but…
Fortunately, GWR still have some good fares available so looks like I’ll be using them more in future.
Why do you think I'm travelling from Didcot to York via London? £10-£15 more but more trains and capacity!

I'm sure the 09:25 will come back at some point, probably in another 3 years time.
 

D6130

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They should be promoting not withdrawing services. I’ve done the Bradford FS to Leeds service a couple of times and it’s far nicer than the Interchange route. Much more reliable.
IIRC, the 1994 resignalling of the entire Leeds North-West network (Kirkstall-Bradford FS-Ilkley-Skipton) was paid for by Bradford Council, on the condition that - once electrified - there would be a seven-days-a-week service from Leeds to Forster Square.
 

InkyScrolls

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IIRC, the 1994 resignalling of the entire Leeds North-West network (Kirkstall-Bradford FS-Ilkley-Skipton) was paid for by Bradford Council, on the condition that - once electrified - there would be a seven-days-a-week service from Leeds to Forster Square.
Though if my memory serves, direct services between Leeds and Forster Square didn't come about till the early noughties. . ?
 

Alfie1014

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A few other interesting bits and pieces (assuming they don’t get changed before introduction). Increasing to 12 tph from Shenfield in the peaks means that Elizabeth Line services are regularly booked into and out platform 4, they’ve used 5 and 6 on a booked basis thus far (although 4 and indeed other platforms can of course be used at times of disruption or engineering works). Reversing in platform 4 in the evening peak could limit any increases in services on the Southend Victoria branch which currently see 5 down services in the busiest evening peak hour. This compares to 7 in the up direction in the high morning peak hour (the 7th from May is a 3rd up Southminster service I think restoring the pre-COVID service level?). This is likely to increase the pressure for more down through services in evening peak as only 1 runs currently, though with the extra EL services turning back in 4 this could be a challenge?

One other change I've noted is that the 07:26 Norwich to Liverpool Street is shown as setting down only at Colchester which will go down well with the current users of this service from this station and will surely cause unnecessary aggro for staff! This is especially illogical as the 07:52 Walton to Colchester was added to the timetable to specifically connect into this train and in fact provides the fastest morning peak train (even with the change at Colchester) off of the branch!
 

dk1

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One other change I've noted is that the 07:26 Norwich to Liverpool Street is shown as setting down only at Colchester which will go down well with the current users of this service from this station and will surely cause unnecessary aggro for staff! This is especially illogical as the 07:52 Walton to Colchester was added to the timetable to specifically connect into this train and in fact provides the fastest morning peak train (even with the change at Colchester) off of the branch!

I have no idea what that’s all about. The previous 07:05 from Norwich is the problem train that is full & standing from Manningtree all because the 06:48 ex-Norwich (which never stopped Colchester) has still not returned,
 

mtmikethom

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I have no idea what that’s all about. The previous 07:05 from Norwich is the problem train that is full & standing from Manningtree all because the 06:48 ex-Norwich (which never stopped Colchester) has still not returned,
The Station Staff Are no doubt expected to stop access to platform 3 before this service arrives which surely will lead to conflict as regulars will know the service stops and once they are on the platform there is no way they can be stopped from boarding and the previous one from P3 is I think the said 0705 ex Norwich
 

308165

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Though if my memory serves, direct services between Leeds and Forster Square didn't come about till the early noughties. . ?
They came in when electrification was completed circa 1995. At the same time Skipton/Ilkley - Bradford was increased to half hourly, all of which was justified on much lower passenger numbers than now.
 

dk1

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The Station Staff Are no doubt expected to stop access to platform 3 before this service arrives which surely will lead to conflict as regulars will know the service stops and once they are on the platform there is no way they can be stopped from boarding and the previous one from P3 is I think the said 0705 ex Norwich
Yes it'll just be a free for all like it was when the boat trains from Parkeston became set down only. Ridiculous to even consider it especially for this moderately loaded service.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Interesting to see Lapworth getting an hourly service on the WMR Stratford via Dorridge service, rather than just the odd peak call it currently gets and Tyseley and Small Heath getting an extra train each hour (3 vs the current 2).

Out the other side of Snow Hill it looks like the Kidderminster goes semi fast with the Worcester trains picking up the stops at Langley Green, Old Hill and Lye instead. One of the Worcester traisn go straight to Foregate St with the other going to Shrub Hill first, then Foregate.

I have only just seen this page hence the delay in responding.

When I resided in the West Midlands, I can remember both Lapworth and Hatton having trains Stourbridge/Snow Hill calling every 60 minutes when they ran to Leamington Spa (the other 2 terminated at Dorridge). The Leamington and the Stratford upon Avon via Shirley both omitted Bordesley, Small Heath, and Tyseley.

I am unsure when the pre 2020 service pattern happened when Lapworth went to every 2 hours on the separate Snow Hill - Leamington Chiltern shuttle, or why it was done. Was this done in the aftermath of when Operation Princess totally collapsed?
 

barbette165

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I have only just seen this page hence the delay in responding.

When I resided in the West Midlands, I can remember both Lapworth and Hatton having trains Stourbridge/Snow Hill calling every 60 minutes when they ran to Leamington Spa (the other 2 terminated at Dorridge). The Leamington and the Stratford upon Avon via Shirley both omitted Bordesley, Small Heath, and Tyseley.

I am unsure when the pre 2020 service pattern happened when Lapworth went to every 2 hours on the separate Snow Hill - Leamington Chiltern shuttle, or why it was done. Was this done in the aftermath of when Operation Princess totally collapsed?
I’m not sure of the dates, but at some point (which must have been before 2013), Chiltern became responsible for providing the service for the stations after Dorridge, so Lapworth to Leamington Spa, with all 3 local services terminating at Dorridge. In order not to slow down London services too much Chiltern decided to provide the local 2 hourly Leamington to Moor Street shuttle, which alternated with the Leamington to Stratford shuttles. (The shuttle introduction may have happened after the transfer from London Midland to Chiltern for Lapworth etc.
The in 2013 with the opening of Stratford Parkway station one of the Dorridge terminators was extended to Stratford, but it omitted Lapworth, maybe because of low forecast traffic or maybe pathing difficulties between Hatton and Bearley junction or maybe just “Not one of our stations”.
With the recast timetable the Lapworth stops have been added, whilst the Chiltern 2 hourly shuttle remains. In the northbound direction, the Chiltern service leaves Lapworth 4 minutes before the West Midlands service.
 

david1212

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I have only just seen this page hence the delay in responding.

When I resided in the West Midlands, I can remember both Lapworth and Hatton having trains Stourbridge/Snow Hill calling every 60 minutes when they ran to Leamington Spa (the other 2 terminated at Dorridge). The Leamington and the Stratford upon Avon via Shirley both omitted Bordesley, Small Heath, and Tyseley.

I am unsure when the pre 2020 service pattern happened when Lapworth went to every 2 hours on the separate Snow Hill - Leamington Chiltern shuttle, or why it was done. Was this done in the aftermath of when Operation Princess totally collapsed?

I’m not sure of the dates, but at some point (which must have been before 2013), Chiltern became responsible for providing the service for the stations after Dorridge, so Lapworth to Leamington Spa, with all 3 local services terminating at Dorridge. In order not to slow down London services too much Chiltern decided to provide the local 2 hourly Leamington to Moor Street shuttle, which alternated with the Leamington to Stratford shuttles. (The shuttle introduction may have happened after the transfer from London Midland to Chiltern for Lapworth etc.
The in 2013 with the opening of Stratford Parkway station one of the Dorridge terminators was extended to Stratford, but it omitted Lapworth, maybe because of low forecast traffic or maybe pathing difficulties between Hatton and Bearley junction or maybe just “Not one of our stations”.
With the recast timetable the Lapworth stops have been added, whilst the Chiltern 2 hourly shuttle remains.
Leamington Spa / Warwick <> Stratford-upon-Avon and mostly Leamington Spa / Warwick <> Lapworth being only 2 hourly is poor. Given Chiltern no longer run through Marylebone <> Stratford-upon-Avon IMO Leamington Spa <> Stratford-upon-Avon and all station Leamington Spa <> Birmingham services would be better returned to WMR. Chiltern staff would not need to sign Hatton <> Stratford-upon-Avon and the 165 unit(s) could be used to help cover the shortages due to unavailability of spare parts.
During the strikes around Christmas there possibly could have been albeit occasional Leamington Spa <> Birmingham services.
In the northbound direction, the Chiltern service leaves Lapworth 4 minutes before the West Midlands service.
While this fits the Chiltern and WMR service patterns it is unfortunate.
 
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trundlewagon

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Given Chiltern no longer run through Marylebone <> Stratford-upon-Avon IMO Leamington Spa <> Stratford-upon-Avon and all station Leamington Spa <> Birmingham services would be better returned to WMR
Always thought it odd that Chiltern operate those - particularly the Brum to Leamington shuttle. On that note, it looks like the current handful of WMR Leamington services are reduced to just one in the morning and one in the evening with the new timetable.
 

JonathanH

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Always thought it odd that Chiltern operate those - particularly the Brum to Leamington shuttle. On that note, it looks like the current handful of WMR Leamington services are reduced to just one in the morning and one in the evening with the new timetable.
Is WMR at Leamington just a matter of needing to use the stabling space, because of limitations at Tyseley?
 

Watershed

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Is WMR at Leamington just a matter of needing to use the stabling space, because of limitations at Tyseley?
There's historically long been a RR Central traincrew depot there with knowledge up to Worcester. I suppose it's just deemed more efficient to have those crew work trains that are stabled at the station rather than taxiing up to Tyseley to then take a unit empty back to Leamington.
 

newtownmgr

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Announcement today that there will be roof works going on at New St for several months which will require pairs of platforms being closed for 4 weeks at a time. XC have stated that this will have a severe impact on service between Birmingham/Tamworth/Burton/Derby/NottsThis might explain the cut in services.
 

dk1

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Announcement today that there will be roof works going on at New St for several months which will require pairs of platforms being closed for 4 weeks at a time. XC have stated that this will have a severe impact on service between Birmingham/Tamworth/Burton/Derby/NottsThis might explain the cut in services.

Ah yes the Tyseley workings. All makes sense now if that’s the case.
 
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