May 2025 Timetable Change - Confirmed Changes Only

[30907]

Thanks for this. Do we know what extras there are in West Wales on Sundays?

During the week we have 2 extra Carmthen-Tenby shuttles for the summer timetable which is good as both units operating these were just sat at Carmarthen anyway.

https://live-departures.info/rail/timetable-comparison/?q=CMN&s=su&v=c

Basically an earlier start to service West of Swansea. I don't have Summer 2024 to hand, but they look similar to the Summer 2020 (planned not actual) service, so may be PR spin rather than a significant development

 

[Jez]

https://live-departures.info/rail/timetable-comparison/?q=CMN&s=su&v=c

Basically an earlier start to service West of Swansea. I don't have Summer 2024 to hand, but they look similar to the Summer 2020 (planned not actual) service, so may be PR spin rather than a significant development

Thank you. I'm not overly familiar with what usually runs west of Carnarthen on a Sunday but it does seem to be not that much extra!

 

[childwallblues]

I had been informed that from the new timetable some diagrams on the hourly Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Chat Moss were to become 6 car 331. A quick check this morning shows the 0600 as 331110, the 0700 as 331018/014, the 0800 no allocation yet and 0900 as 331111.

 

[jfollows]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/may_2025_unit_diagrams#incoming-2981695 should show the new timetable diagrams

 

[quantinghome]

Bradford now has 11 direct trains to London per day. Is that a record?

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Bradford now has 11 direct trains to London per day. Is that a record?

I was wondering this myself - I certainly can't recall there ever being a double digit number of London trains to/from Bradford, albeit split between the two Bradford stations.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I had been informed that from the new timetable some diagrams on the hourly Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Chat Moss were to become 6 car 331. A quick check this morning shows the 0600 as 331110, the 0700 as 331018/014, the 0800 no allocation yet and 0900 as 331111.

What was the 08:02 formed of? Real Time Trains has no info.

 

[30907]

I was wondering this myself - I certainly can't recall there ever being a double digit number of London trains to/from Bradford, albeit split between the two Bradford stations.

To my surprise, the 1958 summary table (on timetableworld.com, I checked the ER version) shows a total of 20 including overnight/small hours trains. The South Yorkshireman from Marylebone was not long for this world, admittedly, but the rest will have survived a few years longer.

 

[Geeves]

I had been informed that from the new timetable some diagrams on the hourly Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Chat Moss were to become 6 car 331. A quick check this morning shows the 0600 as 331110, the 0700 as 331018/014, the 0800 no allocation yet and 0900 as 331111.

0700 was 014+019, 0802 was 020+022, as you say every other train is a 4 car so not too bad! The 2 6 car trains are out on the Liverpool Manchester work all day too not just in the peaks

0700,0800,1100,1200,1500,1600,1900 and 2300 are all the booked 6 car jobs to Manchester

 

[berneyarms]

Thanks for this. Do we know what extras there are in West Wales on Sundays?

During the week we have 2 extra Carmthen-Tenby shuttles for the summer timetable which is good as both units operating these were just sat at Carmarthen anyway.

https://live-departures.info/rail/timetable-comparison/?q=CMN&s=su&v=c

Basically an earlier start to service West of Swansea. I don't have Summer 2024 to hand, but they look similar to the Summer 2020 (planned not actual) service, so may be PR spin rather than a significant development

It's a bit more than that for the high season during August to be fair.
Aside from these there are some retimed services.

West Wales Sunday additions (Westbound) (To 27 July)
08:20 Carmarthen-Milford Haven
08:14 Swansea-Pembroke Dock

West Wales Sunday additions (Eastbound) (To 27 July)
09:35 Milford Haven-Manchester Piccadilly (replaces 10:44 Carmarthen-Piccadilly)
10:27 Pembroke Dock-Carmarthen

West Wales Sunday additions (Westbound) (03 August-14 September)
07:48 Carmarthen-Pembroke Dock
07:55 Carmarthen-Milford Haven
08:24 Cardiff Central-Milford Haven (Replaces 08:04 Cardiff Central-Swansea)
08:59 Cardiff Central-Tenby
09:30 Cardiff Central-Fishguard Harbour (Replaces 09:30 Cardiff Central-Milford Haven and 10:43 Carmarthen-Fishguard Harbour)
10:50 Swansea-Pembroke Dock
10:48 Cardiff Central-Milford Haven (Replaces 10:56 Newport-Fishguard Harbour)
12:49 Carmarthen-Tenby
09:30 Shrewsbury-Milford Haven (Replaces 12:06 Cardiff Central-Milford Haven)
13:07 Swansea-Pembroke Dock (Replaces 14:03 Swansea-Pembroke Dock)
14:51 Carmarthen-Tenby
11:28 Manchester Piccadilly-Milford Haven (replaces 11:29 Manchester Piccadilly-Swansea and 10:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Milford Haven curtailed to Cardiff Central)
14:58 Swansea-Pembroke Dock
16:58 Carmarthen-Tenby
13:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Carmarthen curtailed to Swansea
16:47 Swansea-Pembroke Dock deferred to 17:17
18:45 Swansea-Haverfordwest (replaced by accelerated 14:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Milford Haven)
14:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Milford Haven splits at Whitland with portion to Pembroke Dock (replaces 19:34 Swansea-Pembroke Dock)
15:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Fishguard Harbour (replaces 15:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Swansea)
21:01 Swansea-Milford Haven (replaces 20:57 Swansea-Fishguard Harbour)
17:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Milford Haven (replaces 17:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Swansea)
19:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Carmarthen (replaces 17:30 Manchester Piccadilly-Swansea)

West Wales Sunday additions (Eastbound) (03 August-14 September)
09:01 Milford Haven-Manchester Piccadilly (replaces 10:32 Swansea-Manchester Piccadilly)
09:13 Pembroke Dock-Carmarthen (replaces 10:55 Swansea-Carmarthen)
10:24 Carmarthen-Swansea & 11:50 Swansea-Manchester Piccadilly (Replaces 10:44 Carmarthen-Manchester Piccadilly)
11:00 Milford Haven-Manchester Piccadilly (replaces 12:51 Swansea-Manchester Piccadilly)
11:30 Tenby-Carmarthen
13:03 Fishguard Harbour-Manchester Piccadilly (replaces 12:40 Fishguard Harbour-Cardiff Central and 14:55 Swansea-Manchester Piccadilly)
13:35 Tenby-Carmarthen
14:09 Pembroke Dock-Swansea (replaces 14:15 Fishguard Harbour-Swansea)
15:04 Milford Haven-Manchester Piccadilly (replaces 16:52 Swansea-Manchester Piccadilly)
15:40 Tenby-Carmarthen
16:00 Milford Haven-Manchester Piccadilly (replaces 15:31 Milford Haven-Manchester Piccadilly)
16:39 Fishguard Harbour-Cardiff Central
17:45 Tenby-Carmarthen
17:41 Milford Haven-Cardiff Central (replaces 17:30 Milford Haven-Carmarthen)
18:16 Pembroke Dock-Swansea
19:00 Milford Haven-Cardiff Central (replaces 19:40 Milford Haven-Carmarthen)
19:36 Pembroke Dock-Swansea (replaces 19:10 Pembroke Dock-Swansea)
20:40 Milford Haven-Hereford (replaces 21:35 Milford Haven-Cardiff Central)
21:46 Fishguard Harbour-Cardiff Central (replaces 23:01 Fishguard Harbour-Carmarthen)
22:55 Milford Haven-Carmarthen (replaces 23:21 Milford Haven-Carmarthen)

 

[Halish Railway]

I’m pleased to report that the 333 operating 17:21 Leeds to Doncaster soaked up the crowd quite well. Definitely a bit step forward from the three car 331s.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

I’ve noted that since the new timetable, up trains to Marylebone now have “Marylebone 10 signal” listed as a location

 

[Jez]

It's a bit more than that for the high season during August to be fair.
Aside from these there are some retimed services.

Thank you for the detailed reply. Certainly a huge effort for extra Sunday services during the peak holiday period.

 

[InOban]

I'm sure I read somewhere that TfW had a surplus of traincrew - fewer had been retiring than predicted. Apparently they are lovely to work for!
And since weekends are included in the working week there may be no overtime involved.

 

[geoffk]

Apols if this has been reported already.

Monday to Friday 1C84 14.03 Paddington - Penzance. Par arr. 18.16. Newquay train departs 18.16! At Newquay the 18.16 sits for 16 minutes before returning at 19.20 so could leave Par 8 or 9 minutes later. (On Saturdays 1C84 is earlier into Par, at 18.05, as it doesn't stop at Saltash or Liskeard, so the connection is made).

How do we end up with a situation like this?

 

[43172]

My apologies of this has already been mentioned, but i've noticed that with the Penzance to Cardiff direct services being split at Exeter the Cardiff service departs before the service from Penzance arrives. Why is it structured that way rather than the other way around to maintain connections?

 

[Parallel]

My apologies of this has already been mentioned, but i've noticed that with the Penzance to Cardiff direct services being split at Exeter the Cardiff service departs before the service from Penzance arrives. Why is it structured that way rather than the other way around to maintain connections?

I believe the pathing is too tight to allow these trains to routinely depart earlier/later. That’s the reason that’s been given on other threads here.

 

[Jez]

My apologies of this has already been mentioned, but i've noticed that with the Penzance to Cardiff direct services being split at Exeter the Cardiff service departs before the service from Penzance arrives. Why is it structured that way rather than the other way around to maintain connections?

Similar thing happened when West Wales to Manchester was split every other hour at Cardiff. However this was eventually sorted with a 7 minute connection time to maintain connections at Cardiff.