Media Coverage of COVID -19

[Jamiescott1]

- More than 600,000 are waiting for eye procedures (cataracts, etc.)

Even if half of this is true, it makes your eyes water.

It does make a lot of peoples eyes water

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Nobody's mentioned the Metro as it's only given away on trains which nobody is using

It’s available on buses in my area, too. People like myself who have been working all through this pandemic, not working from home or on furlough are most likely to read the Metro. We’re also most likely to be against further lockdowns as we’ve seen from the windows of those not-so empty trains the lack of economic activity in our city centres during the initial lockdown

 

[KevinTurvey]

I have just listened to the Chris Bryant interview. What an arrogant narrow minded disgrace for an MP who seems incapable of rational debate and just resorts to childish insults for arguments that dont suit his agenda. We really should not have people like this in charge - I hope he loses his seat and well done Dan for cutting him off!

 

[Scotrail12]

I have just listened to the Chris Bryant interview. What an arrogant narrow minded disgrace for an MP who seems incapable of rational debate and just resorts to childish insults for arguments that dont suit his agenda. We really should not have people like this in charge - I hope he loses his seat and well done Dan for cutting him off!

No less than 3 (possibly 4) insults from Mr. Bryant:
Stated that DW was ‘Not very bright’
Claimed the interview was a ‘Tedious way of doing radio’
Went on to state that ‘There are a load of crackpots on the other side’ (referring to scientists who disagree with him)
And his final parting shot - ‘You’re a nutcase”

And yet this is someone whose wages being paid by taxpayers in exchange for representing them. Reprehensible behaviour, this guy clearly has some kind of personality issue and is the height of arrogance. I don't know why he thought it was professional to do this. And what sort of qualified politician resorts to cheap insults in a debate rather than rational arguments? I'd expect better debating skills from the average 16/17 year old Higher Modern Studies/A-Level Politics student. The fact that he got so defensive to being questioned and was so crass in response to alternative ideas makes me think he's enjoying the control too much, it's dictator like behaviour really.

It's an odd time when I'm agreeing with Dan Wootton but there you go, 2020 I guess...

Apparently Chris did get banned from the show so that's one less avenue for him to spout his nonsense.

 

[bramling]

It’s available on buses in my area, too. People like myself who have been working all through this pandemic, not working from home or on furlough are most likely to read the Metro. We’re also most likely to be against further lockdowns as we’ve seen from the windows of those not-so empty trains the lack of economic activity in our city centres during the initial lockdown

People are definitely waking up now. After a spring and summer of pleasure, it’s now fast dawning on people that it’s too good to be true, and people are now worrying for their jobs, and realising that 80% in return for a cycle ride or visit to the beach every day isn’t such a good deal after all.

The news coverage is rapidly turning to reflect this.

 

[HSTEd]

So Labour now claiming most impacts are just to "voluntary distancing" - no mention that this is only the case of because of insane hysteria stirred up by politicans and the press.
Or because they are avoiding these things because they are not very pleasant with the restrictions in place.

I don't avoid the cinema because I might get coronavirus, I avoid it because I don't want to spend hours in a mask.

It also leads an interesting direction that I am not sure they have fully considered, given the likely fastest known way to end the outbreak......

 

[Bantamzen]

The language from much of the popular media has changed again this morning, and they are possibly starting to pick up on the real mood of people in Liverpool, Lancashire, Manchester & indeed the whole of the north of England. The Guardian talks about "chaos & fury", the Metro "Tier & Loathing", the Independent "PM facing wrath of Manchester", & The Mail has discovered a hint that landlords might be told to gather ID data of their customers with the headline "Now show us your papers".

 

[Ianno87]

It’s available on buses in my area, too. People like myself who have been working all through this pandemic, not working from home or on furlough

Working from home is still working. Harder than before in many cases.

 

[SamYeager]

Working from home is still working. Harder than before in many cases.

I have a relative who is routinely working till 8pm and peridically at the weekends as well. If I wasn't retired I suspect I would also be working longer hours.

 

[bramling]

The language from much of the popular media has changed again this morning, and they are possibly starting to pick up on the real mood of people in Liverpool, Lancashire, Manchester & indeed the whole of the north of England. The Guardian talks about "chaos & fury", the Metro "Tier & Loathing", the Independent "PM facing wrath of Manchester", & The Mail has discovered a hint that landlords might be told to gather ID data of their customers with the headline "Now show us your papers".

The danger is the the media turning this into north versus south thing. London is being screwed over just as much.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The Telegraph report that recent deaths in one week, from Covid19, flu and pneumonia almost exactly match those from flu and pneumonia in a typical year. Which does make me question again: are these ‘Covid’ deaths with coronavirus, or from coronavirus? Why aren’t there excess deaths in double-digit percentages, instead of barely 1% more from coronavirus+flu+pneumonia vs flu+pneumonia ??

'No sign of second wave' as ONS data shows normal level of deaths for time of year

People who would normally be expected to die of flu or pneumonia may instead be dying from Covid-19

www.telegraph.co.uk

FULL ARTICLE
There is no sign of a second coronavirus wave, experts have said as new Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures showed that deaths are just 1.5 per cent above the five-year average and tracking on a normal trajectory for the time of year.

Although Covid deaths rose to 438 for the week ending October 9 – an increase of 36 per cent from the previous week, when the figure stood at 321 – overall deaths rose just 143 above the five-year average. There were also 19 fewer overall deaths than in the same week last year.

Experts at Oxford University said the number would have to get to 1,200 deaths above the norm before it would usually be considered "excess" above the expected variation in the data.

Researchers also found there would usually be around 1,600 weekly deaths from flu and pneumonia for the same week. Deaths from coronavirus, flu and pneumonia are currently running at 1,621, suggesting there is virtually no increase in expected respiratory deaths.



The ONS figures also do not factor in the UK's growing and ageing population, which would be expected to increase the number of deaths over time and which are likely to cancel out at least some of the increase.

For example, between 2010 and 2019 the number of deaths for the week ending October 9 rose from 9,281 to 9,973 – about 70 extra deaths a year.



Professor Carl Heneghan, the director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine (CEBM) at Oxford University, said: "There is no sign of a second wave up to October 9. In week 41, the number of deaths registered was 1.5 per cent above the five-year average.

"We consider the current data normal variation, and only consider it an excess when it gets to two standard deviations, which is about 1,200 excess deaths compared to the five-year average."

Dr Jason Oke, also of the CEBM, has looked at total deaths since 2010 and said that although deaths were tracking at the top of what would usually be expected, they remained within normal bounds. The figures suggest that people who would normally be expected to die of flu or pneumonia are instead dying from coronavirus.

"Total deaths are tracking at the top but not over," said Dr Oke. "Is it because we have nearly an identical deficit of flu and pneumonia deaths for this time of year?

"Covid-19 plus influenza/pneumonia deaths are at 1,621 this week, while five-year average flu and pneumonia for this week is 1,600."



The ONS figures show that, since the week ending September 4, registered coronavirus deaths in England and Wales have been roughly doubling every fortnight.

However, the country is now entering the winter flu season, and an increase in respiratory deaths is expected. Public Health England (PHE) surveillance of respiratory diseases shows there is virtually no flu in the community at the moment.

For the week ending October 31, out of the 76,398 respiratory specimens reported through the Respiratory DataMart System, none tested positive for influenza. In contrast, 3,068 samples were positive for coronavirus, with an overall positivity of four per cent.

Tuesday's figures show that just over 59,000 deaths involving coronavirus have now been registered in the UK, although the figure of deaths "due" to coronavirus is significantly lower.

Some 53,863 deaths involving coronavirus have occurred in England and Wales up to October 9, and were registered by October 17.

So far this year, 34,174 deaths involving coronavirus have occurred in hospitals, 15,712 in care homes, 2,561 in private homes, 761 in hospices, 227 in other communal establishments and 205 elsewhere.

Figures published last week by the National Records of Scotland showed that 4,301 deaths involving coronavirus had been registered in Scotland up to October 11. In Northern Ireland, 915 deaths had occurred up to October 9 and had been registered up to October 14, according to the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency.
.

(my bold)

 

[Yew]

I don't avoid the cinema because I might get coronavirus, I avoid it because I don't want to spend hours in a mask.

If a big box of popcorn is a ticket to not wear a mask I could go; but then on top of that, I've had a look at my local cinema, and they have literally nothing that I would want to watch.

The Telegraph report that recent deaths in one week, from Covid19, flu and pneumonia almost exactly match those from flu and pneumonia in a typical year. Which does make me question again: are these ‘Covid’ deaths with coronavirus, or from coronavirus? Why aren’t there excess deaths in double-digit percentages, instead of barely 1% more from coronavirus+flu+pneumonia vs flu+pneumonia ??

'No sign of second wave' as ONS data shows normal level of deaths for time of year

People who would normally be expected to die of flu or pneumonia may instead be dying from Covid-19

www.telegraph.co.uk

There is a suggestion that flu has been somehow displaced by Covid 19, though I could not say how valid the idea is, nor how rigorous the investigation has been.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I'

There is a suggestion that flu has been somehow displaced by Covid 19, though I could not say how valid the idea is, nor how rigorous the investigation has been.

NO positive tests for influenza??? (see full text of Telegraph article quoted above)
Is that credible, in October, when people have been dying from flu, even in August 2020

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Telegraph report that recent deaths in one week, from Covid19, flu and pneumonia almost exactly match those from flu and pneumonia in a typical year. Which does make me question again: are these ‘Covid’ deaths with coronavirus, or from coronavirus? Why aren’t there excess deaths in double-digit percentages, instead of barely 1% more from coronavirus+flu+pneumonia vs flu+pneumonia ??

Remember that the distancing measures in place for COVID will also reduce flu and other infectious respiratory diseases.

 

[DB]

Remember that the distancing measures in place for COVID will also reduce flu and other infectious respiratory diseases.

Possibly it will reduce them, but to the extent of no cases at all? Seems unlikely.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Possibly it will reduce them, but to the extent of no cases at all? Seems unlikely.

Is it possible that the covid testing throws up a positive result from the flu virus as well?

( we should probably continue this in the infections or testing threads? )

 

[Yew]

Is it possible that the covid testing throws up a positive result from the flu virus as well?

( we should probably continue this in the infections or testing threads? )

I don't think there is a suggestion of that. Though some papers have hinted that it throws more false positives with other coronaviruses.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Possibly it will reduce them, but to the extent of no cases at all? Seems exceeedingly unlikely.

Corrected that for you

 

[kristiang85]

NO positive tests for influenza??? (see full text of Telegraph article quoted above)
Is that credible, in October, when people have been dying from flu, even in August 2020

This graph is data lifted straight from the WHO influenza website for 2020 (globally). Visually it is already stark, but then look at the scale on the Y axis. Something is definitely amiss - but whatever the reason (whether biological or testing-related), it seems COVID is displacing influenza cases rather than adding to them.
And 2019 was a generally low flu year (sadly I haven't found data for previous years too, which would be even more telling).

Also I'm sure I read that for UK data, if its a flu or pneumonia death but tested positive for COVID, COVID is recorded as the main cause. I can't recall where I saw that or the veracity though.

And this line intrigued me:

Tuesday's figures show that just over 59,000 deaths involving coronavirus have now been registered in the UK, although the figure of deaths "due" to coronavirus is significantly lower.

Why is there not data on this? This would have a huge bearing on the perspective of the epidemic in the UK right now. The Telegraph needs to push for this.

 

[brad465]

What's annoying I suppose is the BBC were reporting the excess deaths every week the ONS released the figures back in the spring, but recently they haven't done so despite all the stats for Covid being released from testing and deaths with it.

The ONS have always done statistical reports for reported deaths from all causes, although they are of course typically not newsworthy. However during a pandemic it makes sense to report them as news; perhaps if they were more recently, with no obvious increase in excess deaths, the overreaction coming to light will be all the more clearer.

 

[kristiang85]

What's annoying I suppose is the BBC were reporting the excess deaths every week the ONS released the figures back in the spring, but recently they haven't done so despite all the stats for Covid being released from testing and deaths with it.

The ONS have always done statistical reports for reported deaths from all causes, although they are of course typically not newsworthy. However during a pandemic it makes sense to report them as news; perhaps if they were more recently, with no obvious increase in excess deaths, the overreaction coming to light will be all the more clearer.

Indeed, and there is absolutely no comparison to normal winters in the BBC's reporting. I know they must be under some strict code to stick to government advice, as the moment any guest speaks about data contrary to that, they get cut off. Sadly it means I now tend to have Sky news on, as they seem to offer a bit more perspective (though still not as much as the printed media, who have less restrictions).

 

[WelshBluebird]

People like myself who have been working all through this pandemic, not working from home or on furlough

Can people please stop suggesting that working from home is not working.
And in terms of furlough - at least the people I know who were furloughed would have much rathered be working - especially during the main period of lockdown that we had.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Can people please stop suggesting that working from home is not working.
And in terms of furlough - at least the people I know who were furloughed would have much rathered be working - especially during the main period of lockdown that we had.

I’m sorry it came across that way. What I meant was working and using public transport to commute to the place of work

 

[kristiang85]

I didn't know where to put this, but given it is a media article here seems the best place. A very interesting article in the Spectator from a pathologist: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-way-covid-deaths-are-being-counted-is-a-national-scandal (Edit: This is from May 2020, I just realised, so it is 5 months old but I don't know if anything has changed since. Sorry, someone posted it on Twitter today so I assumed it was current)

Here's the key points (I've bolded the bits that jumped out at me):

Looking at the current crisis, the response so far has been very different. We are still struggling to understand coronavirus. I can think of no time in my medical career when it has been more important to have accurate diagnosis of a disease, and understanding of precisely why patients have died of it. Yet very early on in the epidemic, rules surrounding death certification were changed — in ways that make the statistics unreliable. Guidance was issued which tends to reduce, rather than increase, referrals for autopsy.

Normally, two doctors are needed to certify a death, one of whom has been treating the patient or who knows them and has seen them recently. That has changed. For Covid-19 only, the certification can be made by a single doctor, and there is no requirement for them to have examined, or even met, the patient. A video-link consultation in the four weeks prior to death is now felt to be sufficient for death to be attributed to Covid-19. For deaths in care homes the situation is even more extraordinary. Care home providers, most of whom are not medically trained, may make a statement to the effect that a patient has died of Covid-19. In the words of the Office for National Statistics, this ‘may or may not correspond to a medical diagnosis or test result, or be reflected in the death certification’. From 29 March the numbers of ‘Covid deaths’ have included all cases where Covid-19 was simply mentioned on the death certificate — irrespective of positive testing and whether or not it may have been incidental to, or directly responsible for, death. From 29 April the numbers include the care home cases simply considered likely to be Covid-19.

So at a time when accurate death statistics are more important than ever, the rules have been changed in ways that make them less reliable than ever. In what proportion of Covid-19 ‘mentions’ was the disease actually present? And in how many cases, if actually present, was Covid-19 responsible for death? Despite what you may have understood from the daily briefings, the shocking truth is that we just don’t know. How many of the excess deaths during the epidemic are due to Covid-19, and how many are due to our societal responses of healthcare reorganisation, lockdown and social distancing? Again, we don’t know. Despite claims that they’re all due to Covid-19, there’s strong evidence that many, perhaps even a majority, are the result of our responses rather than the disease itself.

It might have been possible to check these proportions by examining the deceased. But at a time when autopsies could have played a major role in helping us understanding this disease, advice was given which made such examinations less likely than might otherwise have been the case. The Chief Coroner issued guidance on 26 March which seemed designed to keep Covid-19 cases out of the coronial system: ‘The aim of the system should be that every death from Covid-19 which does not in law require referral to the coroner should be dealt with via the [death certification] process.’ And even guidance produced by the Royal College of Pathologists in February stated: ‘In general, if a death is believed to be due to confirmed Covid-19 infection, there is unlikely to be any need for a post-mortem examination to be conducted and the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death should be issued.’

We need proper information to inform our responses to the virus, both clinical and societal. Instead, we have no idea how many of the deaths attributed to Covid-19 really were due to the disease. And we have no idea how many of the excess deaths were really due to Covid-19 or to the effects of lockdown. Officials should be releasing, as a matter of urgency, detailed information on the surge in deaths, both apparent Covid and non-Covid — particularly in care homes. How many are dying of Covid acquired in hospitals? Data presumably exists on this too, but is not released.

The first rule in a pandemic should be to ensure transparency of information. Without it, errors can go undiscovered — and lives can be lost. We will never be able to find out for sure what this disease was like, or what it did in the early stages of the crisis.

One of the unappreciated tragedies of this epidemic so far is the huge lost opportunity to understand Covid-19 better. We like to beat ourselves up for having the worst Covid death toll in Europe — but we will never know, because we decided not to count properly. In a country that has always prided itself on the quality of its facts and figures, the missing Covid-19 data is a national scandal.

 

[Richard Scott]

Just stumbled across an article saying that herd immunity strategy wouldn't work (sorry but can't link to it on phone) and trying it would lead to a new wave in the older population. Who says this, Sage it seems. Clutching at straws again are they? Seem determined to make sure all news is doom and gloom. Perhaps Government has got them to publish this sort of stuff to ensure population is one mass of depressed people? But then again not sure Sage have much credibility anyway?

 

[initiation]

A very interesting article in the Spectator from a pathologist: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-way-covid-deaths-are-being-counted-is-a-national-scandal

Dr John Lee seems to always talk lots of sense.

Here he is on a recent Irish TV programme. The pro-lockdown guy looks completely unconvincing.

 

[Sanatogen]

Just stumbled across an article saying that herd immunity strategy wouldn't work (sorry but can't link to it on phone) and trying it would lead to a new wave in the older population. Who says this, Sage it seems. Clutching at straws again are they? Seem determined to make sure all news is doom and gloom. Perhaps Government has got them to publish this sort of stuff to ensure population is one mass of depressed people? But then again not sure Sage have much credibility anyway?

wether You believe in herd immunity or not properly shielding the vulnerable is nigh on impossible, plenty of key workers are classed as vulnerable before you even include their household members who’d also have to shield, then you have people working with/for the vulnerable, are you expecting every one of them to live in isolation away from their families for how ever long it takes to reach herd immunity?.

granted there is no easy answers but I think sage might have a point here.

 

[Yew]

wether You believe in herd immunity or not properly shielding the vulnerable is nigh on impossible, plenty of key workers are classed as vulnerable before you even include their household members who’d also have to shield, then you have people working with/for the vulnerable, are you expecting every one of them to live in isolation away from their families for how ever long it takes to reach herd immunity?.

There is some suggestion that areas on the southeast may already have a significant proportion of herd immunity. (Which is not something one 'believes in' it's an epidemiological fact)

If we can't shield people for a short time, how can we expect to do it indefinitely? And even then, when did perfectly shielding 'everyone' become the aim? We're not trying to stop everyone dying, that'd be impossible. We're supposed to try and find a minimum point, where the sum of harms from covid, and the harms from the mitigations is minimal; unfortunately there is a very vocal crowd who want to defeat covid 'at all costs'.

 

[HSTEd]

are you expecting every one of them to live in isolation away from their families for how ever long it takes to reach herd immunity?.

As opposed to expecting huge portions of the population to isolate from their families forever?

Herd immunity would be reached in a matter of a handful of months.
Currently we are coming up at month eight of eternal lockdown.

This would have been over by September!

 

[Yew]

As opposed to expecting huge portions of the population to isolate from their families forever?

Herd immunity would be reached in a matter of a handful of months.
Currently we are coming up at month eight of eternal lockdown.

Indeed, in the balance of probabilities, we would be over this by now if we hadn't gone down this experimental suppression approach.