Media Coverage of COVID -19

[Darandio]

I find great irony in the replies that anyone suggesting the comparison has an ignorance of history, it couldn't be further from the truth. I fear that my grandchildren and great-grandchildren may well be learning about a new version of history in the future, a history where the biggest mental health crisis the world has ever seen was ignored completely at it's roots. A history where we regressed a century in marking out those with disabilities as though they belong to some kind of freak show and are to be avoided at all costs.

 

[6862]

I find great irony in the replies that anyone suggesting the comparison has an ignorance of history, it couldn't be further from the truth. I fear that my grandchildren and great-grandchildren may well be learning about a new version of history in the future, a history where the biggest mental health crisis the world has ever seen was ignored completely at it's roots. A history where we regressed a century in marking out those with disabilities as though they belong to some kind of freak show and are to be avoided at all costs.

Well said.

 

[kristiang85]

I find great irony in the replies that anyone suggesting the comparison has an ignorance of history, it couldn't be further from the truth. I fear that my grandchildren and great-grandchildren may well be learning about a new version of history in the future, a history where the biggest mental health crisis the world has ever seen was ignored completely at it's roots. A history where we regressed a century in marking out those with disabilities as though they belong to some kind of freak show and are to be avoided at all costs.

I totally agree. I think one of the big problems is forgetting history and the lessons learned from it.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Did anyone spot Sky News reported the daily deaths figure differently yesterday?
Whilst stating that 258 people died in England within 28 days of a positive test for coronavirus, all but 17 of those ‘had known underlying medical conditions’
Is that not a tacit implication that 242 died WITH coronavirus and
17 died FROM coronavirus?

 

[greyman42]

Did anyone spot Sky News reported the daily deaths figure differently yesterday?
Whilst stating that 258 people died in England within 28 days of a positive test for coronavirus, all but 17 of those ‘had known underlying medical conditions’
Is that not a tacit implication that 242 died WITH coronavirus and
17 died FROM coronavirus?

That is interesting. I wonder why they have suddenly started reporting deaths in this way?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Intelligent people have long been asking about the split between WITH Covid and dying solely OF Covid.
If that 6.59% split is typical, then this is astounding

 

[Mills444]

Intelligent people have long been asking about the split between WITH Covid and dying solely OF Covid.
If that 6.59% split is typical, then this is astounding

It might be astounding to you but not to me.

 

[Philip Elliott]

Did anyone spot Sky News reported the daily deaths figure differently yesterday?
Whilst stating that 258 people died in England within 28 days of a positive test for coronavirus, all but 17 of those ‘had known underlying medical conditions’
Is that not a tacit implication that 242 died WITH coronavirus and
17 died FROM coronavirus?

No, not at all. Conditions like diabetes, asthma, kidney failure, hypertension when managed allow the individual to live a normal or near normal, healthy life - for decades in many, many cases. People are dying of covid in large numbers - there is no conspiracy to reclassify ‘normal’ deaths as covid deaths.

 

[bengley]

No, not at all. Conditions like diabetes, asthma, kidney failure, hypertension when managed allow the individual to live a normal or near normal, healthy life - for decades in many, many cases. People are dying of covid in large numbers - there is no conspiracy to reclassify ‘normal’ deaths as covid deaths.

There clearly is. Plenty of reports in the media of people testing negative and being classed as a covid death or people dying of things completely unrelated and still being classed as COVID deaths because they happened to test positive in the preceding 28 days

 

[Skimpot flyer]

OK, I’m going to put my protective gear on now, but I feel it’s a legitimate question.
A person who raised a huge sum of money for the NHS last year contracted pneumonia and died in hospital within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test would be counted towards the official Covid deaths total?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

OK, I’m going to put my protective gear on now, but I feel it’s a legitimate question.
A person who raised a huge sum of money for the NHS last year contracted pneumonia and died in hospital within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test would be counted towards the official Covid deaths total?

As things stand, yes - they would.

 

[Domh245]

Intelligent people have long been asking about the split between WITH Covid and dying solely OF Covid.
If that 6.59% split is typical, then this is astounding

The split of "with" vs "of" is actually around 11%, but it is not the data you've picked out there (or to put it the same way around you have - 88.9% of covid deaths are 'because of' and not with)

Underlying conditions means exactly that - they had underlying conditions like Asthma, diabetes and kidney failure (non-exhaustive), but that doesn't mean that they were about to die and them having covid was coincidental.

PHE (and now ONS too) publish data several weeks later around cause of death. There's a bit of working out required*, but you are eventually able to determine the number of covid deaths where covid was the actual underlying cause since 21/3/2020. I've not done the working all the way back as their reports only go so far back, but here's a comparison of the Government's 28 day metric, ONS recorded, and underlying-cause weekly death counts (with the latter two shifted a week to account for registration delay):



*Using the CEBM method: Take the total all cause (530,402) subtract all listed known causes of deaths for the total non-covid causes of death (429,498) and then you have the total number of covid as underlying cause of death to date - 100,904 as 5th Feb. Over the same time frame, ONS have recorded a total 113,505 covid deaths (in England) where it is mentioned on the death certificate - subtract those two to give 12,601 'with not of' covid deaths or ~11.1% of all recorded deaths in the time period. For the last week of data, around 9.96% of deaths (729 of 6277) were 'withs'

 

[brad465]

Tomorrow we will get the next weekly registered deaths report from the ONS, where the decline in excess deaths was visible in the last report, so I'm expecting a much improved look this time. What's notable though about many weeks this winter is not all the deaths registered as being with Covid were excess, a small proportion typically took place under the 5 year average line. This suggests we will reach a point fairly soon (though not necessarily tomorrow), where we're still logging a number of deaths with covid that looks unacceptable to those favouring restrictions, but on the wider picture are not experiencing excess deaths.

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

Provisional counts of the number of deaths registered in England and Wales, including deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, by age, sex and region.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[Bantamzen]

That is interesting. I wonder why they have suddenly started reporting deaths in this way?

If you think back to much earlier last year, the BBC did report deaths in that way but it was changed for, well you know whatever reason...

 

[Darandio]

Imagine if you saw a headline like this 12 months ago, you'd think the world was going mad. Police 'horrified' at kids being kids and playing football together outdoors. I do realise there is a bit of context in terms of forcible entry to the outdoor pitches but much of the emphasis is purely on the kids playing together.

Covid: 'Horrified' police break up football match

About 20 young people make a "hasty getaway" when officers arrive at the closed leisure centre.

www.bbc.co.uk

Covid: 'Horrified' police break up football match​

Police officers found an "irresponsible" football match being played at a closed leisure centre in breach of coronavirus restrictions.
The Derbyshire force was called to Etwall Leisure Centre on Sunday afternoon.
It said officers discovered 15 to 20 young people who had forced their way on to the locked outdoor pitch.
The group "made a hasty getaway" when police arrived, leaving an "onslaught of rubbish" and personal belongings.
Parents are being warned they could be fined if their child breaks coronavirus regulations.
Officers from the local safer neighbourhood team arrived at the scene at 13:05 GMT on Sunday.

In a Facebook post, they said: "Officers were horrified to find a group of around 15-20 young people playing football after forcibly making their way on to the locked football pitches.
"After being alerted to police presence, the gathering soon split up and made a hasty getaway.
"This may seem harsh but we need to ensure these rules are being followed.
"A gathering of 20 is simply not acceptable and quite frankly irresponsible in the times we are all living through."
Police said they knew the identities of some of those involved, but have released a photo of personal items left behind in an effort to identify others.
An appeal has also been made to parents, urging them to be aware of their children's whereabouts during coronavirus restrictions.

"It is of the utmost importance that you ensure your children are following the rules and regulations for Covid-19.
"If a child breaches the rules then as their guardian, you will be held responsible for paying the fine," police said.

 

[Bantamzen]

Imagine if you saw a headline like this 12 months ago, you'd think the world was going mad. Police 'horrified' at kids being kids and playing football together outdoors. I do realise there is a bit of context in terms of forcible entry to the outdoor pitches but much of the emphasis is purely on the kids playing together.

Covid: 'Horrified' police break up football match

About 20 young people make a "hasty getaway" when officers arrive at the closed leisure centre.

www.bbc.co.uk

My thoughts and prayers go out to those poor officers. I can only hope the horror of seeing kids being kids wasn't too traumatic for the poor little souls....

Oh wait, Derbyshire Police.... Forget it, those idiots are rapidly becoming the biggest joke force in the UK....

 

[WelshBluebird]

Tomorrow we will get the next weekly registered deaths report from the ONS, where the decline in excess deaths was visible in the last report, so I'm expecting a much improved look this time. What's notable though about many weeks this winter is not all the deaths registered as being with Covid were excess, a small proportion typically took place under the 5 year average line. This suggests we will reach a point fairly soon (though not necessarily tomorrow), where we're still logging a number of deaths with covid that looks unacceptable to those favouring restrictions, but on the wider picture are not experiencing excess deaths.

I wonder how much impact things like lockdown and WFH is having in terms of activities that people die from.
As an example, I am expecting that deaths from road accidents is going to be fairly largely down for 2020 compared to 2019.

Also, especially for recent figures, we have seen a massive reduction in flu this winter, partly down to an increased take up of the vaccine compared to previous years but also because it is clear that the actions in place to prevent COVID spread are also preventing the spread of the flu (again, given things like WFH and not mixing indoors with other households, that shouldn't be surprising).

Now despite my disagreements with many people on this forum about government policy, I am not using the above to argue for more lockdowns or more restrictions etc. But I am saying that we should take the graph you provided and frame it in the context of what has happened in the last year in terms of deaths from other causes. It will also be important to keep an eye on deaths from other causes going forward too, because of the risk associated with various things caused by lockdowns (cancelled or delayed appointments, mental healths issues etc - as I have said before, whilst I accepted the governments policies when it comes to restrictions / lockdowns, that does not mean I am "happy" about it and does not mean I don't see the downsides - despite being labeled a "locktavist" here).

Imagine if you saw a headline like this 12 months ago, you'd think the world was going mad. Police 'horrified' at kids being kids and playing football together outdoors. I do realise there is a bit of context in terms of forcible entry to the outdoor pitches but much of the emphasis is purely on the kids playing together.

It is important to remember we live in a country where "no ball games" signs are considered normal, and where groups of kids / teenagers are often harassed by adults and police for "loitering". So whilst yes, such a headline would be seen as nuts 12 months ago, I don't think we are as kind to groups kids playing as you seem to think we are as a country in normal non covid times.

 

[Darandio]

It is important to remember we live in a country where "no ball games" signs are considered normal, and where groups of kids / teenagers are often harassed by adults and police for "loitering". So whilst yes, such a headline would be seen as nuts 12 months ago, I don't think we are as kind to groups kids playing as you seem to think we are as a country in normal non covid times.

We absolutely were kinder than we are currently, such signs are reserved for housing estates to discourage people playing on small greens and against gable end walls and not open playing fields which are explicitly designed for these kids to be out playing on. The fact that there are people looking from behind their curtains and snitching when they see a group of kids having a kickabout really gets to me, what gets to me even more is the rapid response and eagerness from the police to do something about it and threaten huge fines to those (or their parents) involved. 12 months ago your house could be getting burgled or you could be getting a beating and they wouldn't be there as quick.

Kids are being kids, they've hardly had a life for a year now and it's taking a huge toll on them. I speak from experience here, i've got three. Now we've personally done everything right so far and not let them go out which in turn places a strain on the relationship with them, we are being incredibly cruel. But I can completely understand parents out there that are seeing what is happening to their children and deciding to let them get on with it.

 

[kristiang85]

My thoughts and prayers go out to those poor officers. I can only hope the horror of seeing kids being kids wasn't too traumatic for the poor little souls....

Oh wait, Derbyshire Police.... Forget it, those idiots are rapidly becoming the biggest joke force in the UK....

One of my good friends is a policeman, and I know he's seen some *truly* horrific stuff in his time.

He'd be appalled to see colleagues describing a football match in those terms.

 

[Bantamzen]

One of my good friends is a policeman, and I know he's seen some *truly* horrific stuff in his time.

He'd be appalled to see colleagues describing a football match in those terms.

You should drop him a link to the story, and let the inter-Constabulary heckling begin...

 

[VauxhallandI]

I saw an article (sorry can't remember where) earlier using the drop in flu cases as a reason to carry on using masks. I think it was the Sunday Times, who are these faceless morons printing this stuff?

 

[Darandio]

I saw an article (sorry can't remember where) earlier using the drop in flu cases as a reason to carry on using masks. I think it was the Sunday Times, who are these faceless morons printing this stuff?

I've just read something similar on the Independent website, might have been it? Claiming that there hasn't been a single case of Influenza detected for seven weeks so it might be worth encouraging people to wear masks on public transport and in other busy environments during the winter months.

I'm no expert here but this seems silly to me. By completely reducing transmission of things like this, don't we compromise our immune system for the future? Do we get to the point where our immune systems are so poorly trained that even a common cold becomes much more of an event?

 

[VauxhallandI]

I've just read something similar on the Independent website, might have been it? Claiming that there hasn't been a single case of Influenza detected for seven weeks so it might be worth encouraging people to wear masks on public transport and in other busy environments during the winter months.

I'm no expert here but this seems silly to me. By completely reducing transmission of things like this, don't we compromise our immune system for the future? Do we get to the point where our immune systems are so poorly trained that even a common cold becomes much more of an event?

Sounds like it.

Exactly the same thoughts I had about not having Flu floating around. If I even know that then why doesn't the so called journalist, where is our right to challenge on these things; they have to be held accountable for the lies and misinformation

 

[Ediswan]

Late last night on R4 they had found somebody to say how terrible this new plan was because it means we will be accepting that there will be additional deaths. Definitely one of the 'Only COVID matters brigade'.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

My thoughts and prayers go out to those poor officers. I can only hope the horror of seeing kids being kids wasn't too traumatic for the poor little souls....

Oh wait, Derbyshire Police.... Forget it, those idiots are rapidly becoming the biggest joke force in the UK....

If they were traumatised by kids playing football, how are they going to cope with potentially discovering one of the kids’ estranged parents committing suicide, as a result of being unable to travel to see his son?

Journalist Bel Mooney wrote an article about how her father’s death (at age 99) was wrongly attributed to coronavirus. Since then, the newspaper has been contacted by other grieving families who have had similar experiences

What IS the truth about Covid deaths?

Demanding an inquiry, top medical experts and MPs also insisted they were 'certain' that too many fatalities were being blamed on the virus.

www.dailymail.co.uk

One funeral director said it was ‘a national scandal’. The claims are part of a Daily Mail investigation that raises serious questions over the spiralling death toll.

More than 100 readers wrote heartbreaking letters following a moving article by Bel Mooney last Saturday. She revealed the death of her 99-year-old father, who suffered from dementia and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, was recorded as coronavirus.

 

[Jimini]

I see that Beth Rigby's back on Sky after her three months in the sin bin then

 

[bramling]

It’s disgraceful. I’m not even in Morrisons very often, but I still decided to lodge an official complaint with them. I’m glad to see they’ve backtracked and it was only an “isolated” incident.

So the other shoppers are terrified that the unmasked person is a filthy biohazard in the midst of a granny-killing spree, but if they have a mere yellow sticker on them all is well.

Witch hunts spring to mind.

I find great irony in the replies that anyone suggesting the comparison has an ignorance of history, it couldn't be further from the truth. I fear that my grandchildren and great-grandchildren may well be learning about a new version of history in the future, a history where the biggest mental health crisis the world has ever seen was ignored completely at it's roots. A history where we regressed a century in marking out those with disabilities as though they belong to some kind of freak show and are to be avoided at all costs.

People shouldn’t be marked out, especially in the form of having to wear something like a symbol or badge, based on characteristics. End of.

Even something like a blue badge is a little demeaning in my view, though that’s an awkward nut to crack.

 

[Ediswan]

AARRGGHH. The BBC 1 news has turned into a covid clip show. Please save that until the end of the series.

 

[kristiang85]

Telegraph main headline:

British man dies and four suffer blood clotting after receiving AstraZeneca vaccine​

Actual story:

The five men, aged between 19 and 59, suffered from Cerebral Venous Sinus Thrombosis (CVST), although the MHRA said it did not know whether it had been directly caused by the vaccine.

The regulator urged people to continue getting the vaccine, adding that fewer than one in a million cases had been recorded after a jab and a causal link had not been established.

This kind of headlining is just irresponsible. Why is it not being pulled up, like anybody reporting that lockdowns were bad were? It's frankly bizarre.

They might as well report that '80% of people who die in car crashes ate potatoes in the 24 hours before'.

 

[johnnychips]

Covid: Summer holidays abroad 'unlikely', warns government adviser

There is a risk travellers could bring Covid variants back to the UK, a government adviser warns.

www.bbc.co.uk

The link gives space to some SAGE guy saying summer holidays abroad should be extremely unlikely. This really annoys me. Since when has he been entitled to speak like this, as if he decides Government policy, but more to the point, why was it top of the BBC website until the record vaccination news took over.

‘There is a risk...”. Unquantified

’Could’...quite

”Variant’... Covid variants happen all the time, and they aren’t necessarily bad

And that’s just from the headline.