Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[ExRes]

Anyone know if ASLEF have approved the stickers?

 

[Liverpool 507]

Was on a liverpool bound train passing Kirkdale depot yesterday, and one of the new trains had the multi coloured metro stickers at the ends of each carriage

Yes I seen it on the 23rd. Only 777008 has them currently.

 

[Jamesrob637]

So nothing à la TPE 2017 then, where they ran one train on the 30/12?

 

[507020]

So nothing à la TPE 2017 then, where they ran one train on the 30/12?

It does seem to be too late for that now, but there is still plenty of time for a 2023 introduction.

 

[MattRat]

It does seem to be too late for that now, but there is still plenty of time for a 2023 introduction.

There was plenty of time for a 2022 introduction as well. I'll believe you when I see it with my own two eyes.

 

[Vespa]

To be launched April 1st 2024.

So I've been informed by a very reliable source

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

To be launched April 1st 2024.

So I've been informed by a very reliable source

oh there optimistic they will have the 777's in service

 

[507020]

There was plenty of time for a 2022 introduction as well. I'll believe you when I see it with my own two eyes.

There wasn’t a single second of 2022 with agreements with both the RMT and ASLEF in place so there was no opportunity for any training or introduction. That might change within weeks.

To be launched April 1st 2024.

So I've been informed by a very reliable source

Isn’t Headbolt Lane supposed to be open by then?

 

[317 forever]

To be launched April 1st 2024.

So I've been informed by a very reliable source

If there is any announcement of them entering service on April 1st, even 2023, it will be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[Bertie the bus]

So nothing à la TPE 2017 then, where they ran one train on the 30/12?

Why would they? The TPE pantomime was apparently because they made a franchise commitment to run the LHCS that year and true to form TPE did the minimum amount possible. There is no franchise commitment to run these units. There isn't even a franchise.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

To be launched April 1st 2024.

So I've been informed by a very reliable source

If not a joke, then how embarrassing for them.

 

[Pacef8]

So a few years ago i took this in pre production.
2nd October 2018

 

[MattRat]

There wasn’t a single second of 2022 with agreements with both the RMT and ASLEF in place so there was no opportunity for any training or introduction. That might change within weeks.

Well they were supposed to have an agreement sometime in 2022. And now you are saying they are supposed to have an agreement in 2023. Sounds like history could be repeating itself.....

 

[Skie]

Well they were supposed to have an agreement sometime in 2022. And now you are saying they are supposed to have an agreement in 2023. Sounds like history could be repeating itself.....

Except things have moved on and the situation is vastly different

 

[507020]

Well they were supposed to have an agreement sometime in 2022. And now you are saying they are supposed to have an agreement in 2023. Sounds like history could be repeating itself.....

The issue is they shouldn’t have ordered or built any new stock without first gaining agreements on how it would be operated, or this was always going to happen.

 

[childwallblues]

The big question is will the 777s enter service before the last 507/508 leaves for Newport? We lost three 507006, 508140/143 this year and undoubtedly more will be on the way in 2023.

 

[Pacef8]

I don't think that will bother the drivers . They will still get paid .

 

[F262YTJ]

If not a joke, then how embarrassing for them.

I'd say the OP was being a little satirical with his choice of dates and emoji here.

Seriously, though, I feel that the first quarter of 2023 will see the Kirkby line converted to 777 operation ending this rather excessive and convoluted process.

 

[urbophile]

Has the work at Southport station begun yet? That at Liverpool Central was postponed after it clashed with a couple of strike days recently. Neither of these necessary preparations seem to have much to do with driver/guard disputes. So why the delay?

 

[Skie]

Has the work at Southport station begun yet? That at Liverpool Central was postponed after it clashed with a couple of strike days recently. Neither of these necessary preparations seem to have much to do with driver/guard disputes. So why the delay?

They are only required to enable 8 car running on the Southport services, which will be the last line converted over to 777 operation. No real mad panic to get the works done, but there are closures planned for Central over the next few weekends.

 

[MattRat]

They are only required to enable 8 car running on the Southport services, which will be the last line converted over to 777 operation. No real mad panic to get the works done, but there are closures planned for Central over the next few weekends.

But if Central isn't important to the Kirkby and Ormskirk lines, doesn't that mean we'll only ever get 4 car running?

 

[507020]

Has the work at Southport station begun yet? That at Liverpool Central was postponed after it clashed with a couple of strike days recently. Neither of these necessary preparations seem to have much to do with driver/guard disputes. So why the delay?

The work at Southport is supposedly to take place this week, but there has been no briefing as to what exactly this work will be. The toilets were closed and demolished before Christmas, being replaced with ‘portal loos’ but have not been refurbished. Besides platform lengths, the platform height works were not completed several years ago.

 

[Skie]

But if Central isn't important to the Kirkby and Ormskirk lines, doesn't that mean we'll only ever get 4 car running?

Initially, yep. Having 4 cars on those 2 lines will still be a big benefit as they do hold more passengers than a 3 car can. Might be fun for a while though at peak!

 

[Liverpool 507]

777007 has moved to Kirkdale this afternoon following 6 weeks of stabling at Southport. 777001 is in Birkdale sidings.

Presumably another rotation will take place with units that have been having regular FFR moves.

The platform extension works at Ainsdale are more or less complete to accommodate x2 777s.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why would they? The TPE pantomime was apparently because they made a franchise commitment to run the LHCS that year and true to form TPE did the minimum amount possible. There is no franchise commitment to run these units. There isn't even a franchise.

Somebody, somewhere must have had an objective to get a 777 into passenger service by a certain date.
In the background, Stadler will want payment against delivery milestones.
The Rosco (or whoever is putting up the money for the trains) will also be financially involved.
There might not be a franchise, but there will be contracts.

 

[Skie]

Somebody, somewhere must have had an objective to get a 777 into passenger service by a certain date.
In the background, Stadler will want payment against delivery milestones.
The Rosco (or whoever is putting up the money for the trains) will also be financially involved.
There might not be a franchise, but there will be contracts.

Merseytravel are the ROSCO here. It'll be up to them and Stadler to agree how to handle delays, whilst Merseyrail will just lease whatever they need (though obviously they're also under the direction of the franchise holder, Merseytravel, to lease the 777s as soon as they can).

From what I know, all parties have a great working relationship (the Kirkdale depot is Stadlers UK HQ) and all of the issues are well understood and pragmatically being dealt with. It's much more integrated an approach than other TOCs might be able to manage if the same issues occurred and the DFT were the ones pulling strings.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Somebody, somewhere must have had an objective to get a 777 into passenger service by a certain date.

Irrelevant. MerseyTravel and Steve Rotherham having an objective isn't a franchise commitment. Merseyrail are the concession holder and they can't operate any services until staff are trained, and they are not. Merseyrail can't make commitments, they are just paid to run the service.

In the background, Stadler will want payment against delivery milestones.
The Rosco (or whoever is putting up the money for the trains) will also be financially involved.
There might not be a franchise, but there will be contracts.

Of no relevance to the units entering service whatsoever. The contracts between Stadler and MerseyTravel will relate to units being accepted and ready for service. Stadler aren't going to care whether they actually carry passengers, just that they have fulfilled their contractual commitments to deliver units that are ready to doing so.

From what I know, all parties have a great working relationship (the Kirkdale depot is Stadlers UK HQ) and all of the issues are well understood and pragmatically being dealt with. It's much more integrated an approach than other TOCs might be able to manage if the same issues occurred and the DFT were the ones pulling strings.

It is quite bizarre that you should sing the praises of devolution when this fiasco puts anything on the rest of the network to shame. The whole thing has been handled abysmally from the day the trains were ordered.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Irrelevant. MerseyTravel and Steve Rotherham having an objective isn't a franchise commitment. Merseyrail are the concession holder and they can't operate any services until staff are trained, and they are not. Merseyrail can't make commitments, they are just paid to run the service.

Of no relevance to the units entering service whatsoever. The contracts between Stadler and MerseyTravel will relate to units being accepted and ready for service. Stadler aren't going to care whether they actually carry passengers, just that they have fulfilled their contractual commitments to deliver units that are ready to doing so.

Well as I said, somebody is footing the bill for delays in getting the 777s into service (and the POP fleet to the dismantlers).
I suspect it is the Merseyside taxpayers.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Of course somebody is paying for the units that have been accepted for traffic but that has absolutely nothing to do with a franchise commitment to carry passengers by a certain date.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It is quite bizarre that you should sing the praises of devolution when this fiasco puts anything on the rest of the network to shame. The whole thing has been handled abysmally from the day the trains were ordered.

SWR and the 701's are vying with them for worst spot

I suspect it is the Merseyside taxpayers.

It is MerseyRail gets no DfT grant although via other routes LCA gets plenty of central government cash.