Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[irish_rail]

I think purely from a fleet number view yes. But from a business perspective it makes more sense to withdraw at the ends of their exam mileage and press the 777s in to service

All very well, but if those 777s continue failing there won't be a service left. Peoples livelihoods , educations etc at stake, it isn't a game. That's why politicians need to step in for the sake of the people.

 

[Sam 76]

All very well, but if those 777s continue failing there won't be a service left. Peoples livelihoods , educations etc at stake, it isn't a game. That's why politicians need to step in for the sake of the people.

That I would agree. As an everyday commuter on the Southport to Liverpool line it would be a nightmare with no service. However I think they know exactly what needs to be done and are probably a long way of that stage

 

[Peter Sarf]

Fancy some surplus 455s ?.

 

[315801]

They would be a huge help the way things are up here

 

[baldyman26]

Saying politicians need to step in...It's because of idiot politicians that we are in this mess in the first place. Merseyrail have been lumbered with units not fit for service because of a politicians ego trip. The issues here sit firmly with Merseytravel and fat controller Rotherham.

 

[irish_rail]

Was the guy charged with fleet introduction posting on this thread a while back? D Powell??? Be interesting to here his thoughts????

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Was the guy charged with fleet introduction posting on this thread a while back? D Powell??? Be interesting to here his thoughts????

He might be a bit too busy pushing the suppliers to sort various issues out to post on here at the moment...?

 

[karlbbb]

Looks like another just went pop. 2K38 (1535 Central to Kirkby) stuck at Central just became 5K38. Inbound 2G54 from Ormskirk, 2S38 from Hunt's Cross and 2U38 from Southport stuck waiting for it to move.

EDIT: Still appears to be stuck at Central at 1546.
EDIT2: Still there at 1552. Must be a more serious breakdown.

 

[LPJOHN]

This screen shot was taken from Network Rail‘s “Status and Disruptions” page a few minutes ago, it’s since changed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2023 ==

it looks like the broken down train has been moved.

 

[karlbbb]

The broken down train is sat in the reversing siding at Central now, but has been there for a little while.

 

[TheSel]

This screen shot was taken from Network Rail‘s “Status and Disruptions” page a few minutes ago, it’s since changed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2023 ==

it looks like the broken down train has been moved.

Interesting that [and I quote]:

'Train services to Kirkby may be cancelled, delayed or terminated at and started back from Port Sunlight'.

When was there last a service linking Kirkby and Port Sunlight?
When will there ever be another?
Or is this yet more disinformation?

 

[karlbbb]

Interesting that [and I quote]:

'Train services to Kirkby may be cancelled, delayed or terminated at and started back from Port Sunlight'.

When was there last a service linking Kirkby and Port Sunlight?
When will there ever be another?
Or is this yet more disinformation?

I'd say it's probably just misinformation rather than disinformation.

 

[Djgr]

Accordingly to the Wirral Globe, new trains enter service on the Wirral line (everywhere except Ellesmere Port branch) from Monday.

 

[Pacef8]

The wirral globe is not the most reliable of sources . Plus only 1 train has made it past spital all summer so i very much doubt it will be successful based on current punctuality.

 

[Djgr]

The wirral globe is not the most reliable of sources . Plus only 1 train has made it past spital all summer so i very much doubt it will be successful based on current punctuality.

It is not but it does quote directly from Steve Rotheram. Doesn't say anything about it being a success though.

 

[mcnw35282]

Looks like another just went pop. 2K38 (1535 Central to Kirkby) stuck at Central just became 5K38. Inbound 2G54 from Ormskirk, 2S38 from Hunt's Cross and 2U38 from Southport stuck waiting for it to move.

EDIT: Still appears to be stuck at Central at 1546.
EDIT2: Still there at 1552. Must be a more serious breakdown.

It was stuck in P1 at Liverpool Central for over half an hour. They done a full power down and reboot 3 times, all of which failed. I think they even tried moving it using the depot batteries, as the lights in the carriages were lit, but very dim...to no avail. For around 35 mins, only P2 at Central was available...was nice to see a few "unusual" moves to hunts Cross depart from P2. It did eventually shift to the reversing siding, but it stayed there for another half an hour, which caused more disruption to scheduled departures from Central. Things eventually got back to normal with the 17:05 LVC-KIR.

A few mins before this, a passenger boarded an Ormskirk train once the driver had started to close the doors, which resulted in the doors being stuck half-open and the step not retracting. That train ended up leaving 7 mins late due the actions of one idiot.

 

[Sam 76]

What I am interested to see is if Stadler are making adjustments to units not yet delivered to improve reliability. You’d like to think that they would be preventing issues on the newer units before arrival.

I have been positive about the 777s overall and I am happy they are here. They are nice units and improving slowly. But next week on the Wirral simply isn’t going to work and it’s delusional to believe it will. They should not be going in the central loop until they improve further. Sadly there is no choice ,but expect no Wirral line service in the central section for hours at a time

 

[karlbbb]

A few mins before this, a passenger boarded an Ormskirk train once the driver had started to close the doors, which resulted in the doors being stuck half-open and the step not retracting. That train ended up leaving 7 mins late due the actions of one idiot.

Idiot or not, it doesn’t say a lot about our new modern stock that it can’t handle the very common occurrence of someone jumping on a train mid door-close.

 

[Vespa]

The main issues seemed to be doors and software.

The guard would need an overide button to confirm closure of doors and dispatch.

The software would need an update and maybe a manual reset button to overide software failure.

No matter how clever a computer is, there is a need for a human element to overide.

*Safe to say we'll be ok with no risk of a Skynet style hostile take over the world for some time yet

 

[mcnw35282]

Ah, so it's the fault of the safety software on the train rather than some div who can't be bothered to wait a whole 15 mins for the next train.

Gotcha.

 

[py_megapixel]

Ah, so it's the fault of the safety software on the train rather than some div who can't be bothered to wait a whole 15 mins for the next train.

Gotcha.

Yes it is. It's a good idea for it to stop the doors closing in this situation, but it should try again once the person is out of the way. In an ideal world the passenger wouldn't do that, but for all you know they had already been held up elsewhere and so didn't have the 15 minutes to spare.

People seeing the doors closing, running across the platform and jumping on at the last minute is really common, and the train should be able to cope with it. In fact, I imagine it is designed to be able to, and what you saw was some sort of error rather than the intended behaviour.

 

[Bow Fell]

It’s worth pointing out that despite the negativity, the units are improving, it may not look like it.

I completely understand the need to push the fact it’s an issue with the software with the guard dispatch process too on here. I completely get why people are desperate for that to be the cause of the issues. Sadly, it’s not.

Even the unit 015 that everyone on here said was “stripped for spares” and in pieces was seen on a test run today.

 

[Sam 76]

It’s worth pointing out that despite the negativity, the units are improving, it may not look like it.

I completely understand the need to push the fact it’s an issue with the software with the guard dispatch process too on here. I completely get why people are desperate for that to be the cause of the issues. Sadly, it’s not.

Even the unit 015 that everyone on here said was “stripped for spares” and in pieces was seen on a test run today.

Oh no doubt they are !! And I am desperate for them to get better and tbf there are more units out making it day by day. And amazing to see 015 out today

 

[315801]

I wonder where the spares came from to finally get 777015 up and running unless the parts used were from off the units that needed repairs at the time and the parts removed from those units have been repaired or are replacements that have been fitted to the unit.

Which line was it on please ?

 

[bahnause]

The main issues seemed to be doors and software.

The guard would need an overide button to confirm closure of doors and dispatch.

The software would need an update and maybe a manual reset button to overide software failure.

No matter how clever a computer is, there is a need for a human element to overide.

*Safe to say we'll be ok with no risk of a Skynet style hostile take over the world for some time yet

The door control can be programmed in any way as long as it complies with the regulations and the orderer's specifications. Depending on this, the closing pressure, the enabled or disabled safery features and the number of closing attempts can be adjusted. Most units I know have a "door reset".

However, there should not be an override without mechanically locking the door out of use. I know the override procedure only for journeys without passengers.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Idiot or not, it doesn’t say a lot about our new modern stock that it can’t handle the very common occurrence of someone jumping on a train mid door-close.

Pesky passengers eh !. But the railways have been coping with them for over a century.

Ah, so it's the fault of the safety software on the train rather than some div who can't be bothered to wait a whole 15 mins for the next train.

Gotcha.

That is right. Passengers are passengers. Trains need to be robust enough to deal with that. It is not like passengers have suddenly been invented - there must be over a century of experience. Some parts of trains really are too fragile or too complicated. Don't get me wrong - forcing ones way through a closing door is not good but it happens too often to ignore that activity and hope it goes away.

The door control can be programmed in any way as long as it complies with the regulations and the orderer's specifications. Depending on this, the closing pressure, the enabled or disabled safery features and the number of closing attempts can be adjusted. Most units I know have a "door reset".

However, there should not be an override without mechanically locking the door out of use. I know the override procedure only for journeys without passengers.

Depends if the door has become faulty or has really only become inoperative temporarily. It might need locking closed out of use or just given a chance to re-set.

It is not just trains - Funnily enough I was on a bus last night where the front (entry) doors would not close. Driver tried several times. So I offered to shove them while he operated the controls. One door was sloppy the other rigid so that rigid one got my persuasion. All worked fine after that. But you can tell the whole mechanism is intricate/complex and light weight enough to be vulnerable. I really wonder if its possible to pull a door off a bus if I really wanted to !.

 

[mcnw35282]

Right-o.

 

[baldyman26]

Was the guy charged with fleet introduction posting on this thread a while back? D Powell??? Be interesting to here his thoughts????

when it was going well yes, it hits the fan and they all go quiet (or point the finger at everyone else Mr Mayor). Trains fail yes, what I don't understand is they appear to be constantly failing with the same issues. Is it the hope they will just magically fix themselves. I would love just once for one of our leaders to stop sticking to the script and tell us the truth of what is really happening. When it was the drivers holding things up that was everywhere, unfortunately the bullet proof Mayor has nobody else to blame now.. This is after all your project. But hooray he will spread the love and muck up the otherside of the river next week..

 

[Peter Sarf]

when it was going well yes, it hits the fan and they all go quiet (or point the finger at everyone else Mr Mayor). Trains fail yes, what I don't understand is they appear to be constantly failing with the same issues. Is it the hope they will just magically fix themselves. I would love just once for one of our leaders to stop sticking to the script and tell us the truth of what is really happening. When it was the drivers holding things up that was everywhere, unfortunately the bullet proof Mayor has nobody else to blame now.. This is after all your project. But hooray he will spread the love and muck up the otherside of the river next week..

Indeed. It is rather telling how not only is implementation not going well but they plough on regardless. In reality there is always a risk with new trains so I accept that there can be problems but it looks like in reality no one is being realistic going forwards.

 

[Vinnym]

The Mayor like most politicians is always visible when things are looking good. When it starts to hit the fan he turns into the invisible man. Do we really need a Metro Mayor?