Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[MTN 24J]

Currently on 777144, overheard the guard saying that the dispatch sensors aren't working with the RFID cards.. yet another issue to be fixed!

 

[karlbbb]

Currently on 777144, overheard the guard saying that the dispatch sensors aren't working with the RFID cards.. yet another issue to be fixed!

This could also be the RFID card they have being faulty. I've seen so many of the TMs holding their card to the sensor by bending the RFID card - this is absolutely killer to the brittle circuits inside and will quickly lead to them not working.

 

[Prime586]

This could also be the RFID card they have being faulty. I've seen so many of the TMs holding their card to the sensor by bending the RFID card - this is absolutely killer to the brittle circuits inside and will quickly lead to them not working.

There aren't any delicate circuits inside RF proximity cards. There's a tiny encapsulated IC about the same size as a nano SIM and an induction coil that acts as both the power pickup and the antenna for the transciever (this coil can either be plated copper on a flexible plastic substrate, or a flat coil of thin wire). The cards are meant to tolerate being bent (the RFID card I use to get into our office has had a 5mm deep curve in it for over 10 years).

The RFID dispatch system has been problematic since the 777s went into revenue service, which I suspect imay be a combination of the door control panel supplier (Swiss manufacturer Algra) having no previous experience in RFID hardware, and Stadler's achilles heel, the software that interfaces to it.

 

[Skie]

There aren't any delicate circuits inside RF proximity cards. There's a tiny encapsulated IC about the same size as a nano SIM and an induction coil that acts as both the power pickup and the antenna for the transciever (this coil can either be plated copper on a flexible plastic substrate, or a flat coil of thin wire). The cards are meant to tolerate being bent (the RFID card I use to get into our office has had a 5mm deep curve in it for over 10 years).

The RFID dispatch system has been problematic since the 777s went into revenue service, which I suspect imay be a combination of the door control panel supplier (Swiss manufacturer Algra) having no previous experience in RFID hardware, and Stadler's achilles heel, the software that interfaces to it.

Having broken many an RFID card by simply flexing it too much whilst idle (things hanging around my neck are way too accessible!), I can safely say they're delicate enough to suffer fatigue. Either the plastic cracks and cuts the antenna wire, or the wire itself just breaks. That video has a very chunky wire loop, can't say I've ever seen one so substantial before!

The safer solution for Merseyrail would be a fob style. Much harder to damage, and easier to hook onto a set of keys or belt loop.

 

[baldyman26]

That question is pretty much everything that is wrong with the 777. There are probably many numerous easy solutions that could've been used

 

[yorkie]

If anyone would like to discuss potential solutions to the RFID problems, please use the following thread:

Merseyrail Class 777: possible solutions to RFID problems

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/merseyrail-class-777-introduction-updates.153458/page-253#post-7080938 Currently on 777144, overheard the guard saying that the dispatch sensors aren't working with the RFID cards.. yet another issue to be fixed! The safer...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks.

 

[Elecman]

Roger Ford in this months Modern Railways email update is reporting that several units have been found with missing/loose traction motor mounting bolts

 

[Pacef8]

Knowing that ebikes are meant to be banned from the underground network . What is the procedure for containing a self combusting ebike when their is no dividing carriages ?

 

[childwallblues]

Knowing that ebikes are meant to be banned from the underground network . What is the procedure for containing a self combusting ebike when their is no dividing carriages ?

As all the stations on the underground both with gated entrances and on the platforms there should not be a problem. Even someone trying to board with an e-bike should in theory be stopped by the on board second man.

 

[1D54]

Roger Ford in this months Modern Railways email update is reporting that several units have been found with missing/loose traction motor mounting bolts

Sounds serious and shouldn't have happened in the first place but surely an easy problem to rectify?

 

[Elecman]

Sounds serious and shouldn't have happened in the first place but surely an easy problem to rectify?

Re torque all bolts, and on a regular re torque on various examinations

 

[507016]

Another reason for people to go off at merseyrail and Stadler combined, “now your trains can’t be maintained” brilliant

 

[Class15]

Great decision to send the remaining 507s for scrap

 

[WirralLine]

I don't have a source because it's from an internal source, but wiring errors have been found on a number of the polish built units which needs to be checked.

Also reports from network rail about track damage from wheel flats which arnt being reported, and some wheels becoming deformed too.

I've got some screen grabs of said information, but I can't share it here.

Overall job well done!

 

[karlbbb]

Had an interesting journey on 777146 the other day.

Leaving Maghull, the train started picking up speed and then felt like a wheel slip started for a few seconds with a couple of back-and-forth lurches. The acceleration then stopped and we started coasting. As we were sat behind the cab, I heard an unusual warning alarm sound twice, after which all the lights in the train carriages went out for a second or two. All the displays also went off - the ones that normally show adverts, CCTV and maps displayed a Debian Linux login prompt and the destination displays had random dots displayed, then a private IP address, then everything carried on as though nothing had happened.

While I'm glad the train wasn't taken out of service, it also seems pretty wild that such a drastic "reset" had to be undertaken at speed.

 

[1D54]

Great decision to send the remaining 507s for scrap

You can't really hold on to old units on the off chance that they will be required in service again but some of the stuff being posted on here is concerning and could cause Merseyrail a rather large headache if too many of the class need taking out of service for any length of time. Let's hope it doesn't come to it.

 

[Class15]

You can't really hold on to old units on the off chance that they will be required in service again but some of the stuff being posted on here is concerning and could cause Merseyrail a rather large headache if too many of the class need taking out of service for any length of time. Let's hope it doesn't come to it.

If 507001 and 507029 are still at Birkenhead North, would they be able to put them into traffic worst comes to worst? I’m guessing there are many reasons why this is not possible.

 

[Sam 76]

I wonder if this is what caused them all to be pulled and checked a couple of weeks back ? If so that hopefully means that it has been identified and sorted

I don't have a source because it's from an internal source, but wiring errors have been found on a number of the polish built units which needs to be checked.

Also reports from network rail about track damage from wheel flats which arnt being reported, and some wheels becoming deformed too.

I've got some screen grabs of said information, but I can't share it here.

Overall job well done!

If this is true, surely Polish built unit should currently not be running and stripped back to be the bones ? Sounds like a mess

 

[Northerngirl]

I saw 004 had it's door open today, are they finally working on whatevers wrong with it

I don't have a source because it's from an internal source, but wiring errors have been found on a number of the polish built units which needs to be checked.

Also reports from network rail about track damage from wheel flats which arnt being reported, and some wheels becoming deformed too.

I've got some screen grabs of said information, but I can't share it here.

Overall job well done!

From my very amateur bum feeling the train shuder and clunk, it seems like a lot of them have flats, so I can't say I'm surprised. Is there a tsr between magull north and Maghull because that seems to be very slow at the moment

 

[CHAPS2034]

To help you check out the introduction of these units, Mayor Rotheram has a present for you, courtesy of some compo from those nice people at Stadler.

Mayor launches unlimited travel on Merseyrail for just £2 during weekends in January

Mayor launches unlimited travel on Merseyrail for just £2 during weekends in January

www.merseytravel.gov.uk

Liverpool City Region Mayor Steve Rotheram has announced a special New Year ticket offer - allowing unlimited travel for just £2 a day at weekends during January.

The special weekend offer will start on Saturday, January 4, and end on Sunday, January 26, with tickets for children aged 5-15 costing just £1.

The reduced-price tickets have been paid for by the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority from funds recovered from train manufacturer Stadler. They are available on all Merseyrail lines.

It will allow passengers to travel across the region for a fraction of the normal fare.

"Making public transport more affordable and accessible is a key part of my mission to build a transport network for everyone. This £2 unlimited travel offer will help start off 2025 in the best way by helping people get around the Liverpool City Region without worrying about cost.

“Investing in new trains and infrastructure is about making life better for people—whether that’s getting to work, visiting family, or just enjoying a day out. We’ve capped bus fares at £2, protected the country’s most generous concessionary travel scheme, and delivered the UK’s first publicly-owned train fleet in a generation.

“I hope as many people as possible will take full advantage and use it to see the best our city region has to offer – from the coastline of Formby and New Brighton, to wonderful museums and cultural attractions in Liverpool city centre!”
Steve Rotheram
Mayor of the Liverpool City Region

 

[Pacef8]

Might go to headbolt for a laugh ! Then claim my delay repay

 

[Kite159]

Trying to boost tourism during January time when tourism is traditionally low?

 

[Prime586]

The compo should have been put towards the cost of the trains, the cost of the new ferry ,the cost of the new bus fleet....

 

[themiller]

The compo should have been put towards the cost of the trains, the cost of the new ferry ,the cost of the new bus fleet....

Cheap fares is good PR that people feel directly whereas putting the same amount towards the cost of the trains or ferries is less noticeable to ‘the man in the street’!

 

[1D54]

Giving something back to the good folk on Merseyside after the rubbish they have had to put up with due to the constant delays in getting the new trains in to service sounds an excellent thing for the local authority to do.

 

[Prime586]

Cheap fares is good PR that people feel directly whereas putting the same amount towards the cost of the trains or ferries is less noticeable to ‘the man in the street’!

We will just be paying for the fare discounts through the rise in our council tax payments (and the Mersey tunnel tolls) this year instead.

 

[tram21]

We will just be paying for the fare discounts through the rise in our council tax payments (and the Mersey tunnel tolls) this year instead.

Stadler, the train manufacturer, is payin for this, so you and the council are not paying in any way.

 

[simonmpoulton]

Stadler, the train manufacturer, is payin for this, so you and the council are not paying in any way.

Yep and good on the authority for negotiating this given the problems!

 

[MR-507508]

The Ormskirk line enjoyed all three diagrams being worked by 8 Car Class 777s today due to sporting events including racing at Aintree. The 'special' boxing day service saw Ormskirk services start and terminate at Liverpool Central. 2 x 4 Cars worked the Liverpool Central to Aintree shuttles to provide extra capacity.
To the best of my knowledge, I think today marks the first time a line has been operated by all 8 Car workings?

 

[Prime586]

Stadler, the train manufacturer, is payin for this, so you and the council are not paying in any way.

My point was that the liquidated damages recovered from Stadler could have been used to help pay off (or service the £24m annual interest on) the £450m in loans that were taken out to buy the new fleet, which the council tax payers are paying for.

It could have even been used to offset the £700k in legal fees paid by Merseytravel to DLA Piper to deal with Bombardier's claim for damages after the contract was awarded to Stadler in January 2017 (Bombardier also later received damages from Stadler after they appealed to keep the details of the procurement evaluation confidential as part of that claim).