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Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

TheSel

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10 Oct 2017
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861
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Southport, Merseyside
Per Wikipedia, the 507/508s have done forty years: the preceding 503s that they replaced did forty years: and the Mersey Railway electric trains that the 503s replaced did over fifty years.

The evidence would seem to say that 777s should do forty years.

To be fair, only SOME of the 503s did forty(ish) years. There was a 1938 build, and a supplementary 1956 build (to very much the same design, with only detailed differences), ordered and built to replace the final Mersey Railway sets, and to replace wartime casualties amongst the original 1938 sets (i.e. there were then two 'hybrid' sets formed of a 1938 driving motor, semi-permanently coupled to a 1956 trailer and driving trailer). The last 503s ran in normal service on 29 March 1985 - so just under 30 years for the most long-lived 1956 sets.

But yeah - the 777s will almost certainly outlive me!
 
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S&CLER

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11 Jan 2020
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785
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southport
Per Wikipedia, the 507/508s have done forty years: the preceding 503s that they replaced did forty years: and the Mersey Railway electric trains that the 503s replaced did over fifty years.

The evidence would seem to say that 777s should do forty years.
The L&Y emus also did 35 years or more, and the 1920s slam door emus (once known as "Lindberghs", I read somewhere) were still around when I was at school in the 1950s (and very unpopular).
 

shakey1961

Member
Joined
21 Dec 2014
Messages
155
Is there anybody in the know on here that can give us some regular/semi-regular updates as to where and when 777003 is going to be out and about testing? I can't be everywhere, but I'd like to be around to see it running up and down to Southport.

Anyone at all?

Thanks
 

M28361M

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Joined
15 May 2014
Messages
539
Location
Liverpool
I imagine the first tests will happen overnight when no other trains are running. I'm sure info will be posted here.

Meanwhile, Merseytravel have tweeted a "walk-through" video of 777003 on their Twitter. Not sure it really shows anything we haven't already seen, but nice to see.
 

MR-507508

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17 Jan 2020
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691
Location
North West
Is there anybody in the know on here that can give us some regular/semi-regular updates as to where and when 777003 is going to be out and about testing? I can't be everywhere, but I'd like to be around to see it running up and down to Southport.

Anyone at all?

Thanks
You can keep a check on the Realtime Trains website at Kirkdale C.S. depot. It is suppose to be running on the Kirkby line for testing I believe and probably in the early hours of the morning to start with.
 

shakey1961

Member
Joined
21 Dec 2014
Messages
155
Can someone point out on Realtime Trains how I distinguish between a 507/508 unit and the 777 unit out on test? I don't know if I'm missing something, but all it appears to say about the stock is "Pathed as Electric multiple unit. Planned for 75mph max"
 

LA50041

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2017
Messages
2,161
Can someone point out on Realtime Trains how I distinguish between a 507/508 unit and the 777 unit out on test? I don't know if I'm missing something, but all it appears to say about the stock is "Pathed as Electric multiple unit. Planned for 75mph max"
You can’t on RTT, it only shows a timing load not what’s booked
 

D365

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Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,476
A 40 year lifespan for these trains sounds quite ambitious! Lets wait and see shall we ;)

I don't know what the obsession is with claiming that modern trains won't survive a 40 year expected lifespan. Metro trains in particular are often used until the very end of their working lives.
 

Kite159

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West of Andover
I don't know what the obsession is with claiming that modern trains won't survive a 40 year expected lifespan. Metro trains in particular are often used until the very end of their working lives.

More electrics to go wrong compared to the older stuff
 
Joined
12 Jan 2015
Messages
85
Location
Liverpool
I've heard to start with they're going to be tested overnight on the Kirkby line, with the line under a possession.

Can someone point out on Realtime Trains how I distinguish between a 507/508 unit and the 777 unit out on test? I don't know if I'm missing something, but all it appears to say about the stock is "Pathed as Electric multiple unit. Planned for 75mph max"
 

trainmania100

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Joined
8 Nov 2015
Messages
2,567
Location
Newhaven
Can someone point out on Realtime Trains how I distinguish between a 507/508 unit and the 777 unit out on test? I don't know if I'm missing something, but all it appears to say about the stock is "Pathed as Electric multiple unit. Planned for 75mph max"
Keep an eye out for 5Q or FRGT paths
 

sdrennan

Member
Joined
23 Feb 2011
Messages
210
I don't know what the obsession is with claiming that modern trains won't survive a 40 year expected lifespan. Metro trains in particular are often used until the very end of their working lives.
The units will probably last 40 years + however as new units become more reliable it will actually be cheaper to buy more modern units earlier instead of heavy maintenance
 

L401CJF

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16 Oct 2019
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1,486
Location
Wirral
I don't know what the obsession is with claiming that modern trains won't survive a 40 year expected lifespan. Metro trains in particular are often used until the very end of their working lives.

Everything is getting more and more complex with electronics so much more to go wrong, as technology advances it can be difficult to maintain outdated electronics. The main issue with computers is the amount of wiring involved. I am an enthusiast but dont have much to do with trains, however I have plenty of experience working on buses and the older buses are much more reliable than the newer purely due to simplicity.

A number of the newer buses we have at our depot are suffering from lots of electrical faults. One of the main causes of problems is broken wires - one broken wire can leave the bus completely dead and can often take days or even weeks to find. Another problem which has cropped up recently on buses only a couple of years old is corrosion in the mass of wiring looms which are very complex, can take weeks again to work out exactly whats causing the faults, and usually the entire loom has to be replaced which is extremely complex. Another regular problem is sensor faults. Everything relying on data being fed into computers from various sensors, one dodgy sensor feeding false information causes a huge mass of problems. Its never ending! I am aware trains are built to a higher standard than a bus (in theory) but the same applies. The issue also applies to some cars from the last 15 or so years.

Just a thought, but the first point raised by a friend of mine who is a fitter at another TOC, and to be fair something that had crossed my mind also - in years to come the sliding step feature could become a problem when wear and tear sets in, the components get covered in muck, start to corrode etc, He said he can see them failing. If one jams in the 'out' position he would imagine it would trigger an interlock fault and render the train unable to move - possibly able to manually put it back in place and lock it(?), but presumably the train would then have to be taken out of service. Nice feature to have and definitely needed, but another complexity. I am aware that the class 390s have folding steps although a completely different design, I'm not sure if they have caused any issues over the years but somebody might know.

I hope the 777 proves to be the big success it has been promised to be, and as much as I love the old stock, it is overdue.
 

Grumpy Git

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13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,139
Location
Liverpool
Everything is getting more and more complex with electronics so much more to go wrong, as technology advances it can be difficult to maintain outdated electronics. The main issue with computers is the amount of wiring involved. I am an enthusiast but dont have much to do with trains, however I have plenty of experience working on buses and the older buses are much more reliable than the newer purely due to simplicity.

A number of the newer buses we have at our depot are suffering from lots of electrical faults. One of the main causes of problems is broken wires - one broken wire can leave the bus completely dead and can often take days or even weeks to find. Another problem which has cropped up recently on buses only a couple of years old is corrosion in the mass of wiring looms which are very complex, can take weeks again to work out exactly whats causing the faults, and usually the entire loom has to be replaced which is extremely complex. Another regular problem is sensor faults. Everything relying on data being fed into computers from various sensors, one dodgy sensor feeding false information causes a huge mass of problems. Its never ending! I am aware trains are built to a higher standard than a bus (in theory) but the same applies. The issue also applies to some cars from the last 15 or so years.

Just a thought, but the first point raised by a friend of mine who is a fitter at another TOC, and to be fair something that had crossed my mind also - in years to come the sliding step feature could become a problem when wear and tear sets in, the components get covered in muck, start to corrode etc, He said he can see them failing. If one jams in the 'out' position he would imagine it would trigger an interlock fault and render the train unable to move - possibly able to manually put it back in place and lock it(?), but presumably the train would then have to be taken out of service. Nice feature to have and definitely needed, but another complexity. I am aware that the class 390s have folding steps although a completely different design, I'm not sure if they have caused any issues over the years but somebody might know.

I hope the 777 proves to be the big success it has been promised to be, and as much as I love the old stock, it is overdue.

All down to cost I'm afraid.
 

transmanche

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
6,018
Just a thought, but the first point raised by a friend of mine who is a fitter at another TOC, and to be fair something that had crossed my mind also - in years to come the sliding step feature could become a problem when wear and tear sets in, the components get covered in muck, start to corrode etc, He said he can see them failing.
I don't know if this is the component chosen by Stadler for their 777s, but train door specialists IFE/Knorr-Bremse make an 'X4 Sliding Step': which they say is made from stainless steel and claim is a "rugged design, not affected by dirt, corrosion, ice or snow". It would be interesting to know where these (or similar devices) are already used.

As for longevity. Think about station escalators: some of those live a very tough life, but they are heavy duty, built to last 40 years and only require refurbishment after 20 years. (The original escalator at Greenford station lasted for 67 years, until it was replaced in 2014.) So if the build quality is good, then there's no reason to be pessimistic.
 

shakey1961

Member
Joined
21 Dec 2014
Messages
155
Go on Traksy. SOP MAP I think the 777 is out on test. 2T07 seems to have strange route all over the Wirral and all over the Northern Line. Southport at around 13.40
 

LA50041

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2017
Messages
2,161
Go on Traksy. SOP MAP I think the 777 is out on test. 2T07 seems to have strange route all over the Wirral and all over the Northern Line. Southport at around 13.40

I think you'll find that is a BLS railtour not a test run
 

_toommm_

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Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
5,856
Location
Yorkshire
Indeed it is a Branch Line Society Railtour - the raffle alone raised over £800 so it's been a good day so far!

Screenshot_20200126-143309_Gallery.jpg
 

_toommm_

Established Member
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
5,856
Location
Yorkshire
On a side note, one passenger at Liverpool Central has asked if the railtour is a 'Rail Replacement Service'. Not quite sure how that works, but ok...
 

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