Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[paddyb6]

The New Brighton diagram tends to be the service to depart Moorfields at XX:46, Lime Street at XX:48 and Central at XX:50. The West Kirkby diagram I am unsure of as the departure time changes every hour.

New Brighton hourly at :23, West Kirby is 2W06-2W11-2W16-2W21-2W26 until 2W46 then forms 5B46

 

[Pacef8]

Nothing for chester again ?

 

[jamesst]

Nothing for chester again ?

Nope

 

[paddyb6]

Nothing for chester again ?

Don't think so

 

[Vespa]

It will be a good while yet as both Southport/Hunts Cross and Liverpool to Chester are long routes, West Kirby and New Brighton are not too far from Birkenhead North depot if anything goes wrong.

Walk before you run seems the thing to do.

 

[Sam 76]

Rather unusually 777049 was the culprit of the Kirkby line this morning. Normally one of the more reliable units

 

[777]

Hi all, I've been lurking for some time waiting for news of the 777s appearing on the New Brighton line as I commute every weekday. Having now spent a week riding on them I wonder if I want to commit to another year.
My personal requirements of public transport are that it should be safe, reliable and comfortable (in that order). I can see the old units were likely to become unreliable in the future so new trains were essential.
Safety doesn't seem an issue, reliability is still a bit questionable but no doubt it'll get sorted, comfort however is a bit grim for me personally and won't get better as it's set in stone (like the cushions). The seats are very hard, they are cramped with no space between you and anyone sitting next to you, there is also the issue that if you have two legs it's very uncomfortable to sit near the window thanks to the curvature of the wall pushing your ankle inwards (see photo). Am I the only one who finds this particular aspect uncomfortable even for twenty minute journeys?

 

[irish_rail]

Hi all, I've been lurking for some time waiting for news of the 777s appearing on the New Brighton line as I commute every weekday. Having now spent a week riding on them I wonder if I want to commit to another year.
My personal requirements of public transport are that it should be safe, reliable and comfortable (in that order). I can see the old units were likely to become unreliable in the future so new trains were essential.
Safety doesn't seem an issue, reliability is still a bit questionable but no doubt it'll get sorted, comfort however is a bit grim for me personally and won't get better as it's set in stone (like the cushions). The seats are very hard, they are cramped with no space between you and anyone sitting next to you, there is also the issue that if you have two legs it's very uncomfortable to sit near the window thanks to the curvature of the wall pushing your ankle inwards (see photo). Am I the only one who finds this particular aspect uncomfortable even for twenty minute journeys?
View attachment 142076

Ooohh crikey that does look like a poor bit of design. Are all the window seats like that or just that one???

 

[Skie]

Ooohh crikey that does look like a poor bit of design. Are all the window seats like that or just that one???

Those are the worst, there are some with a slightly better gap (the freestanding ones not against bulkheads) but it’s only mm’s of difference so still not great.

Very similar to the Thameslink 700s. Designed for increased standing capacity.

 

[777]

Those are the worst, there are some with a slightly better gap (the freestanding ones not against bulkheads) but it’s only mm’s of difference so still not great.

Very similar to the Thameslink 700s. Designed for increased standing capacity.

Yes it's there on all the seats I've sat on so far but can't comment on exact dimensions. As you say, there's a drive to increase standing capacity and I suspect the floor being lower means the cylindrical geometry comes into play. Funny enough my train isn't nearly as crowded on regular basis now many people are "hybrid working" when I'm commuting. Nobody saw that coming at design stage though.

 

[stuart100100]

Rather unusually 777049 was the culprit of the Kirkby line this morning. Normally one of the more reliable units

The Ormskirk train I was getting this afternoon around 1.30 was cancelled at Central and restarted from sandhills, and 777049 replaced whatever unit went bang

 

[Sam 76]

The Ormskirk train I was getting this afternoon around 1.30 was cancelled at Central and restarted from sandhills, and 777049 replaced whatever unit went bang

Ahh nice of it to come back out

 

[chesterred16]

I was looking forward to the 777s coming out to play on the Chester line but now I'm dreading the drop in reliability.

 

[urbophile]

Hi all, I've been lurking for some time waiting for news of the 777s appearing on the New Brighton line as I commute every weekday. Having now spent a week riding on them I wonder if I want to commit to another year.
My personal requirements of public transport are that it should be safe, reliable and comfortable (in that order). I can see the old units were likely to become unreliable in the future so new trains were essential.
Safety doesn't seem an issue, reliability is still a bit questionable but no doubt it'll get sorted, comfort however is a bit grim for me personally and won't get better as it's set in stone (like the cushions). The seats are very hard, they are cramped with no space between you and anyone sitting next to you, there is also the issue that if you have two legs it's very uncomfortable to sit near the window thanks to the curvature of the wall pushing your ankle inwards (see photo). Am I the only one who finds this particular aspect uncomfortable even for twenty minute journeys?
View attachment 142076

I don't like longitudinal seats generally but on trains like these there could be a mix and these end-of-carriage locations would be ideal. Rode one of them twice today on the New Brighton line and didn't notice such a big obstruction where I was sitting: maybe the single seats are moved nearer to the wall to give more space for the gangway.
Otherwise, the acceleration is noticeably better and they are certainly quieter. I don't find the seats too hard. The electronic displays need adjusting; the route map wasn't functioning and the end of carriage ones (which seem very low tech by comparison) were stuck on the previous station, then corrected themselves, and then got stuck announcing Liverpool Central as the destination en route to New Brighton. On return they seem to have sorted themselves out (apart from the map).
I've noticed the delayed displays when Ormskirk or Kirkby trains come into the platform at Central from the siding: they show Out of Service while staff are announcing the destination and people are boarding. It doesn't seem to switch to showing the destination until a few seconds before leaving.

 

[karlbbb]

Ooohh crikey that does look like a poor bit of design. Are all the window seats like that or just that one???

They're all similar but not as severe as the picture shows. This particular seat is at either end of each unit and is shifted closer to the wall to accommodate the cab entry door which you can see the frame of to the left of the seat.

 

[777]

I don't like longitudinal seats generally but on trains like these there could be a mix and these end-of-carriage locations would be ideal. Rode one of them twice today on the New Brighton line and didn't notice such a big obstruction where I was sitting: maybe the single seats are moved nearer to the wall to give more space for the gangway.
Otherwise, the acceleration is noticeably better and they are certainly quieter. I don't find the seats too hard. The electronic displays need adjusting; the route map wasn't functioning and the end of carriage ones (which seem very low tech by comparison) were stuck on the previous station, then corrected themselves, and then got stuck announcing Liverpool Central as the destination en route to New Brighton. On return they seem to have sorted themselves out (apart from the map).
I've noticed the delayed displays when Ormskirk or Kirkby trains come into the platform at Central from the siding: they show Out of Service while staff are announcing the destination and people are boarding. It doesn't seem to switch to showing the destination until a few seconds before leaving.

Yes it's not as severe an obstruction to leg room on most other seats (harder to get a shot of though) but still enough to cause me discomfort, possibly due to an old injury. In any case it seems somewhere in the process of design it was deemed OK to force a slightly unnatural seating posture by windows. This has resulted in a less comfortable ride than on the old units.
I also noticed the somewhat random announcements but figure they'll get sorted out eventually. I also noticed the WiFi doesn't work consistently yet. I have yet to be able to use it underground which is supposed to be possible on the new units. Again these are technical problems which can be solved; things like the basic seat design can't so I'll either commute by car in future or give up sitting next to a window.

 

[py_megapixel]

I don't like longitudinal seats generally but on trains like these there could be a mix and these end-of-carriage locations would be ideal.

The positioning of the PIS displays does make me wonder whether these might originally have been envisaged with longitudinal seating. They are located on the side walls above the windows, which is just silly with the current seating layout (from most seats it's awkward or impossible to see a display, and it takes up space which could otherwise be used for more luggage racks), but would be ideal for a longitudinal layout.

Rode one of them twice today on the New Brighton line and didn't notice such a big obstruction where I was sitting: maybe the single seats are moved nearer to the wall to give more space for the gangway.

I think that must be it - I noticed no such issue in the seats I sat in. That single seat has to leave enough room for the cab door to open so might well be closer to the wall than the others.

I've noticed the delayed displays when Ormskirk or Kirkby trains come into the platform at Central from the siding: they show Out of Service while staff are announcing the destination and people are boarding. It doesn't seem to switch to showing the destination until a few seconds before leaving.

Yes I noticed that as well

 

[paddyb6]

Is there any updates re introduction on Chester?

 

[8A Rail]

Is there any updates re introduction on Chester?

I am sure when anyone has any information about appearing on the Chester route, it will be posted. There is no urgency to be honest, as from when ever in the next few weeks months, they will be the only units you can travel on for years to come!

 

[stottyuk]

777018 on New Brighton turns and 777002 on West Kirkby turns today

 

[childwallblues]

I am sure when anyone has any information about appearing on the Chester route, it will be posted. There is no urgency to be honest, as from when ever in the next few weeks months, they will be the only units you can travel on for years to come!

Well said Doug. Get the 507/508 whilst you can I say.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I took the short hop from Sandhills to Liverpool Central on a 777 yesterday, then continued towards Hunts Cross on a 507.

I really don't get the 'hate 777, love 507' sentiment. The 777's are absolutely light-years ahead in overall comfort, particularly yesterday when it was very muggy. All the 507 open windows did was increase the flange squeal experience in the tunnels, it was horrendous.

 

[8A Rail]

I took the short hop from Sandhills to Liverpool Central on a 777 yesterday, then continued towards Hunts Cross on a 507.

I really don't get the 'hate 777, love 507' sentiment. The 777's are absolutely light-years ahead in overall comfort, particularly yesterday when it was very muggy. All the 507 open windows did was increase the flange squeal experience in the tunnels, it was horrendous.

I am not sure there is any 'hate' or 'sentiment' for Class 507, 508 and 777's. The issue with Class 777's, they currently not being operationally consistent due to numerous faults / niggles which is to be expect and people are highlighting understandably. The Class 507 / 508 units have been around for nearly 40 years and have served us very well indeed which has got to be commended and they will be missed in the same way Class 502 / 503 are for numerous reasons. However, what you must remember, technology has improved over the years so there are bound to be improvements between trains that are 40 years apart (well you would expect it).

When you say 'comfort' about the Class 777's, I cannot imagine you are referring to the seats but ride wise, yes they are fine. I personally do not like the hardness of the seats, may be ok for short hops between two / three stations but for a longer journey, Central to Southport or Chester, not even close to ideal.

 

[Parjon]

The seating was always going to be a mistake. Passenger Focus interviewed pensioners at Southport for their preference, rather than the core city customers.

I understand the desire to allow wheelchair users to move throughout the train, but replicating the layout of the S Stock underground trains was the obvious answer. Not what they've delivered.

That picture of the seat embedded in the wall is ridiculous.

 

[prod_pep]

In addition to the seats, almost certainly the worst I've ever experienced on Britain's railways, the ride quality is poor and a definite, objective step down from the 507/8s. The older stock doesn't sway or lurch anywhere near as much as the 777s.

Personally, a lack of air conditioning which, incidentally, has been far from spectacular on any 777 I've hitherto ridden, is a small price to pay for the much better comfort a 507/8 provides. Once you adjust and the air starts flowing through the open windows, people soon adjust on hot days. I know I shan't be commuting on the 777s!

 

[urbophile]

The seating was always going to be a mistake. Passenger Focus interviewed pensioners at Southport for their preference, rather than the core city customers.

I understand the desire to allow wheelchair users to move throughout the train, but replicating the layout of the S Stock underground trains was the obvious answer. Not what they've delivered.

That picture of the seat embedded in the wall is ridiculous.

I believe they took a passenger survey when the trains were in development, which expressed an overwhelming preference for unidirectional bus type seating. I don't understand this at all and would have much preferred the S-stock layout of a mix of facing bays and longitudinal seating. After all, the nature of most of Merseyrail is very similar to the outer reaches of the Met, journey times are similar, and the lack of toilets doesn't seem to be a problem. I can't remember how well padded the seats are though.

 

[Grumpy Git]

In addition to the seats, almost certainly the worst I've ever experienced on Britain's railways, the ride quality is poor and a definite, objective step down from the 507/8s. The older stock doesn't sway or lurch anywhere near as much as the 777s.

Personally, a lack of air conditioning which, incidentally, has been far from spectacular on any 777 I've hitherto ridden, is a small price to pay for the much better comfort a 507/8 provides. Once you adjust and the starts flowing through the open windows, people soon adjust on hot days. I know I shan't be commuting on the 777s!

The 777 ride quality on my brief trip yesterday, was noticeably better than previous trips (when they were first introduced). It was totally smooth with no 'lurching' whatsoever. Contrast that with the outward journey on the 507, the northern approach to Sandhills had the suspension hitting the bump stops, with horrible loud 'bangs' after every track joint. That particular unit must be absolutely knackered?

The 777 air conditioning was a godsend.

If you really prefer to drive, I guess you don't need an excuse?

 

[8A Rail]

The seating was always going to be a mistake. Passenger Focus interviewed pensioners at Southport for their preference, rather than the core city customers.

I understand the desire to allow wheelchair users to move throughout the train, but replicating the layout of the S Stock underground trains was the obvious answer. Not what they've delivered. That picture of the seat embedded in the wall is ridiculous.

Hopefully I have read the highlighted sentence correctly, but pensioners from Southport (and other areas) would have preferred softer seats than the hard ones they are presented with now. Core City passengers just want a very reliable service for their daily commute with everything else coming second including the seats, although I suspect some of them never expected what they got in the Class 777's.

 

[Parjon]

Well. Then I guess we were all disappointed!!

 

[prod_pep]

The 777 ride quality on my brief trip yesterday, was noticeably better than previous trips (when they were first introduced). It was totally smooth with no 'lurching' whatsoever. Contrast that with the outward journey on the 507, the northern approach to Sandhills had the suspension hitting the bump stops, with horrible loud 'bangs' after every track joint. That particular unit must be absolutely knackered?

Clearly they must have forgotten to work on 777009 and 018 then as those were anything but smooth. The 777s' suspension bumps too, so not unique to 507/8s.

The 777 air conditioning was a godsend

Air con is only a godsend when it actually works properly. If not, no opening windows at all is a major disadvantage.

If you really prefer to drive, I guess you don't need an excuse?

Reason, not excuse.