Merseyrail: funding for Headbolt Lane and St James stations

[Bletchleyite]

Back in the early 1970s, Skelmersdale was included in the proposed Merseyside county. I think it was left out to include Southport instead?

There's long been opposition to being part of Merseyside in West Lancashire generally. Part of it is snobbery (as most of West Lancs is posh and somewhere you aspire to move to if you grow up nearer Liverpool city centre), and part of it is a desire to pay less Council Tax (even though the lower rate comes with fewer and lower quality services).

One wonders had Skem become part of Merseyside, would the rail extension the town so desperately needs and deserves have been installed by now? I think it would.

It's an interesting question. Skem was one of the New Towns, and the idea of those was that they were self contained - you lived, worked and did leisure activities there. MK was seen as similar, and MKC station indeed wasn't part of the grand plan. Kirkby by contrast seems similar, but is earlier overspill and never had that intention. Of course that intention was found to be non-viable later because the problem with it is that you need your skills to match the work on offer. So I'm not sure, to be honest.

Travelling from Kirkby to Rainford and beyond by train is a real experience of nothingness. Forget covid and its' efffects on the transport network, this route has suffered like crazy since the line was split in 1977 becoming the kind of branch line Beeching would have immediately shut down. It's so quiet. I don't doubt Merseytravel's commitment to the line, but could the same be said of Lancashire County Council? They were never that happy contributing financially towards the Maghull-Ormskirk section of that line in their jurisdiction, what has changed now? Time, as always, will tell.

The lack of an evening service probably has a fairly large impact on usefulness. Of course it was the locals that caused that - BR withdrew it due to too many brickings etc. It's also fairly rural like Ormskirk-Preston, at least until you get to the outskirts of Wigan, but it doesn't serve a useful through journey purpose from Merseyrail because other options for those journeys are quicker (via Liverpool, Preston or the Burscoughs as applicable). So it'd only really be locals that used it. A bit like the Bentham Line in a way.

 

[childwallblues]

Back in the early 1970s, Skelmersdale was included in the proposed Merseyside county. I think it was left out to include Southport instead?

One wonders had Skem become part of Merseyside, would the rail extension the town so desperately needs and deserves have been installed by now? I think it would.

Merseyside PTE were (still are!) a pro-rail authority - a key policy was to transfer traffic from bus to rail where possible. Waterloo and Kirkby benefitted/suffered from these policies in the late 1970s.

Travelling from Kirkby to Rainford and beyond by train is a real experience of nothingness. Forget covid and its' efffects on the transport network, this route has suffered like crazy since the line was split in 1977 becoming the kind of branch line Beeching would have immediately shut down. It's so quiet. I don't doubt Merseytravel's commitment to the line, but could the same be said of Lancashire County Council? They were never that happy contributing financially towards the Maghull-Ormskirk section of that line in their jurisdiction, what has changed now? Time, as always, will tell.

At least freight has returned to the Kirkby to Rainford Junction section.
The new extension to Headbolt Lane should not be short of passengers with the Northwood area in close proximity.

 

[Statto]

I believe the bus service from Skelmersdale to Liverpool is painfully slow as well. A train would really make a difference for commuters.

There used to be faster Liverpool-Skem services, one peak hour express using the M58, & the 345/355 which took around 65-70 minutes, now it's just the 310 via Ormskirk & Maghull.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There used to be faster Liverpool-Skem services, one peak hour express using the M58, & the 345/355 which took around 65-70 minutes, now it's just the 310 via Ormskirk & Maghull.

Does surprise me that a faster service doesn't pay. I guess most people wanting Liverpool drive to a station? (By car all the way is horribly slow, but a drive to Kirkby would be quite quick)

 

[WatcherZero]

Back in the early 1970s, Skelmersdale was included in the proposed Merseyside county. I think it was left out to include Southport instead?

Yes, it was planned that West Lancashire would have been a Unitary district of Southport and Ormskirk within the county of Lancashire (Like Blackpool and Blackburn with Darwen) while Skem would have been part of Merseyside (with Wrightington and Orrell in Wigan). Southport was then included within Merseyside as a borough which left Ormskirk separate, the town of Ormskirk on its own wouldnt have generated enough council tax revenues to support administering a rural district so they added Skelmersdale to it to supplement the council revenue.

A private members bill in 1980 to separate Southport and put it back in Lancashire was defeated by 138 to 102. As to why Southport was suddenly included while the 1972 Bill was in Parliament it seems to be down to Graham Page the MP for Crosby. Bootle and the other small neighbouring areas that would eventually become Sefton were trying to organise into a independent Metropolitan council as they didnt want to be included within Liverpool council. Mr Page saw an opportunity to create a safe Conservative borough by adding the predominantly Conservative populace of Southport into the new Borough overwhelming the primarily Labour voting Bootle (which was in decline from the closure of docks) and it seemed to work initially being conservative for the first 14 years. The very name Sefton was chosen as a neutral name because the people of Bootle didnt want to say they were from Southport and vice versa.


Initial tests of battery-powered Stadler IPEMU for Merseyrail complete | International Railway Journal (railjournal.com)

TESTING of Stadler class 777 independently powered electric multiple units (IPEMU) for Merseyrail has been completed after one month in Britain.

Article says 7 battery units from the existing fleet of 53 trains would be required to form the Headbolt Lane service

 

[Djgr]

It is worth restating that the administrative county of Merseyside only existed for 12 years and disappeared 35 years ago.

The current relevant governing body is Liverpool City Region whose boundaries are similar but not identical to the abolished administrative body.

 

[emoaconr]

It is worth restating that the administrative county of Merseyside only existed for 12 years and disappeared 35 years ago.

The current relevant governing body is Liverpool City Region whose boundaries are similar but not identical to the abolished administrative body.

Indeed. The County of Merseyside still however exists as a ceremonial county, and appoints a Lord Lieutenant. As you say, the LCR consists of Merseyside + Halton, however certain functions are still only administered in the Merseyside part, or Halton as part of Cheshire, e. g. policing. Most Merseytravel concessions and tickets only cover the Merseyside area, with the exception of the bus MyTicket which covers all six boroughs.

 

[childwallblues]

Indeed. The County of Merseyside still however exists as a ceremonial county, and appoints a Lord Lieutenant. As you say, the LCR consists of Merseyside + Halton, however certain functions are still only administered in the Merseyside part, or Halton as part of Cheshire, e. g. policing. Most Merseytravel concessions and tickets only cover the Merseyside area, with the exception of the bus MyTicket which covers all six boroughs.

Concessions do apply outside Merseyside to Ormskirk, Ellesmere Port and Chester on Merseyrail services for Merseyside pass holders.

 

[dvfmlfc]

Does surprise me that a faster service doesn't pay. I guess most people wanting Liverpool drive to a station? (By car all the way is horribly slow, but a drive to Kirkby would be quite quick)

Bus services between Skem and Liverpool have a parallel history with the trains in a way. When Skem was being developed and, for want of a better term, in full swing with industry coming to the town, there was no end of dedicated bus services, including a Saturday afternoon football bus between Skem and Liverpool / Everton home games. But rationalisation was inevitable, the factories closed down quicker than they opened. Ribble operated a core half-hourly service on routes 305/345/365.

Merseyside PTE recognised the shortcomings of a lack of rail service to Skem and organised a 395/396 bus service, operated by Ribble, to meet the Merseyrail service at Kirkby at the expense of through running bus services between Skem and Liverpool. It wasn't successful as no actual time was saved transferring from bus to rail.

Deregulation brutally addressed the shortcomings of the direct route between Liverpool and Skelmersdale and the complete lack of revenue opportunities. For while an express bus route was operated between the ends, it had to have revenue support. The commercial services were gradually run down to a point where Arriva ran one direct journey between Liverpool and Skelmersdale each way a day. When the axe inevitably came to this, the 345 service was curtailed to Waddicar. It survives today.

Arriva operate the 310 as a commercial risk, and the longer route between Liverpool - Ormskirk - Skelmersdale will utilise vehicles more efficiently and offer better revenue opportunities. Sad, but true.

 

[WatcherZero]

Merseyside PTE recognised the shortcomings of a lack of rail service to Skem and organised a 395/396 bus service, operated by Ribble, to meet the Merseyrail service at Kirkby at the expense of through running bus services between Skem and Liverpool. It wasn't successful as no actual time was saved transferring from bus to rail.

It was the Kirkby-Liverpool service that was unsuccessful, the Wigan-Skelmersdale portion of the 395/396 route is still going strong to this day.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Wigan has bus services to Southport via Skelmersdale run by Arriva.
Service 375 goes via Bescar and service 385 goes via Hurlston.
Together, they provide a half-hourly service Monday to Saturday and on Sundays, service 375 only runs an hourly service,

There is also service 395 from Wigan to Skelmersdale that runs a half-hourly service Monday to Saturday,

 

[Djgr]

Bus services between Skem and Liverpool have a parallel history with the trains in a way. When Skem was being developed and, for want of a better term, in full swing with industry coming to the town, there was no end of dedicated bus services, including a Saturday afternoon football bus between Skem and Liverpool / Everton home games. But rationalisation was inevitable, the factories closed down quicker than they opened. Ribble operated a core half-hourly service on routes 305/345/365.

Merseyside PTE recognised the shortcomings of a lack of rail service to Skem and organised a 395/396 bus service, operated by Ribble, to meet the Merseyrail service at Kirkby at the expense of through running bus services between Skem and Liverpool. It wasn't successful as no actual time was saved transferring from bus to rail.

Deregulation brutally addressed the shortcomings of the direct route between Liverpool and Skelmersdale and the complete lack of revenue opportunities. For while an express bus route was operated between the ends, it had to have revenue support. The commercial services were gradually run down to a point where Arriva ran one direct journey between Liverpool and Skelmersdale each way a day. When the axe inevitably came to this, the 345 service was curtailed to Waddicar. It survives today.

Arriva operate the 310 as a commercial risk, and the longer route between Liverpool - Ormskirk - Skelmersdale will utilise vehicles more efficiently and offer better revenue opportunities. Sad, but true.

I do wonder whether the links between Skem and Liverpool are still strong today. There has been a lot of water under the bridge since the new town was established and the world and the City has changed so much since then.

 

[Gareth]

As Liverpool's the nearest large city, yes the links are still strong.

 

[childwallblues]

As Liverpool's the nearest large city, yes the links are still strong.

A lot of people in Skem will still have relatives in North Liverpool.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Reverting back to the thread title, I am out of touch with regards to the St James station news. What is the current position?

 

[mwmbwls]

Can I refer my old chum to recent reports on SSC Liverpool Railway News and Discussion | Page 692 | SkyscraperCity
post number 13826 by Martin S " St James Station (Parliament Street) reopening is a LCR objective and money has been allocated to progress the design and to buy up a piece of land required for the surface station building. The LCR has applied for further funding to progress the development".

 

[urbophile]

Can I refer my old chum to recent reports on SSC Liverpool Railway News and Discussion | Page 692 | SkyscraperCity
post number 13826 by Martin S " St James Station (Parliament Street) reopening is a LCR objective and money has been allocated to progress the design and to buy up a piece of land required for the surface station building. The LCR has applied for further funding to progress the development".

The land has been surrounded by hoardings for a couple of months. I don't suppose any work has been done or is imminent, but at least it shows an intention.