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Merseyrail - Sad lack of ticket checks by guards, only by RPIs.

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508-111

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I'm not a complainer as such however for all of you that live on Merseyside does anyone think it's sad and a let down that merseyrail guards don't ask for tickets anymore ? Seems to just be RPI's and it's such a shame because they used to do it all the time , i know the is barriers at stations but alot of them don't eg: Ellesmere port line! I just think it's sad and all the people getting away with not paying
 
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Parjon

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I have been in dozens of rpi ticket checks and all but one of them everyone had a ticket. I think random rpi checks are patrols are much more useful. After all what are staff meant to do when they encounter a non payer?
 

scrapy

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Will this not be changing as the new trains come in guards will be more focused on revenue. At the moment they are powerless to do anything as they don't have any revenue equipment.
 

Vinnym

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Seen a guard doing a ticket check on an Ormskirk to Liverpool Central train about a fortnight ago.
 

Bletchleyite

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Guards have only "properly" done revenue for a tiny part of Merseyrail's history, a short period in the 1990s under MTL and Arriva's tenure, and I think briefly post 2002 as well. Before that they fully stayed in the cabs, since that they more patrol to provide a presence though some do check tickets as an aside.

Pre Penalty Fares booking office staff went out and collected tickets at busy times, so effectively all stations were gated. People without one often paid cash, which I suspect may have been pocketed in some cases.
 

karlbbb

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I've - anecdotally - seen a ramp-up in guards/train managers doing full ticket checking walks over the last month or so, as well as an increase in the third-party fare checking patrols (is it Carlisle or something like that?).
 

prod_pep

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Pre Penalty Fares booking office staff went out and collected tickets at busy times, so effectively all stations were gated. People without one often paid cash, which I suspect may have been pocketed in some cases.
I can just about remember this. One station that sticks out is Wallasey Village, which with neither footbridge nor subway had a walkway at track level for the clerk to cross to the other platform, long since removed. They stopped collecting tickets before guards started doing revenue, so for a while it was effectively a free service outside the gated central stations.

Nowadays security staff do some checks, as do BTP officers from time-to-time, but checks from guards are very rare.
 

scrapy

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I don't think a Merseyrail guard has ever asked me for my ticket.

RPIs have several times.
Usually only happens where there's a bit of time between stops, Hooton to Bache, north of Old Roan on Ormskirk line and the few stops either side of Formby is the only time I've seen it.
 

Horseman

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Guards have only "properly" done revenue for a tiny part of Merseyrail's history, a short period in the 1990s under MTL and Arriva's tenure, and I think briefly post 2002 as well. Before that they fully stayed in the cabs, since that they more patrol to provide a presence though some do check tickets as an aside.

Pre Penalty Fares booking office staff went out and collected tickets at busy times, so effectively all stations were gated. People without one often paid cash, which I suspect may have been pocketed in some cases.
The presence is certainly the main reason for patrolling the train, and being on hand to help/advise/answer questions, as well as dealing with and reporting any situations which may unfold within the train.
 

Y Ddraig Coch

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The only time I have been asked for a ticket on Merseyrail was back when I was child and was sold one from a paper pad the guard was carrying. in the hundreds of journeys since, I have seen the guards walk through but that's about it, I have never had the pleasure of meeting any RPI's on the merseyrail network either.
 

L401CJF

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I had my ticket checked by 2 different Merseyrail Guards on 2 different services a couple of weeks ago. It does happen but rarely. There is one young lady on the Wirral who seems to check quite often.

A mate of mine is a guard there and says they are supposed to do ticket checks but most don't as they can't sell any tickets so see it as pointless.

Not guards but the Carlisle rentathugs regularly check and issue PFs. Some people got the shock of their life a few months ago on a late night Ellesmere Port service I caught when 2 got on at Hooton, travelled onboard to Ellesmere Port then conducted a full ticket check at the station exit! A few PFs issued!

You do see Merseyrails own RPIs but not as much as Carlisle bods. I did a daysaver last week to get some units in and didn't encounter 1 ticket check all day by anyone!

When I was a kid the guards would check tickets on most journeys and stamp it with a round ink stamp which said BC (depot) and their number on it. The RPIs were the same but said RP. They would also issue paper hand written tickets on a notepad.
 

Class142sbad

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When I went to Liverpool in April 2022 no guard asked for my ticket. I suspect one of the reasons they don't do it is because of the short distance between some stations.
 

gazzaa2

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I had my ticket checked by 2 different Merseyrail Guards on 2 different services a couple of weeks ago. It does happen but rarely. There is one young lady on the Wirral who seems to check quite often.

A mate of mine is a guard there and says they are supposed to do ticket checks but most don't as they can't sell any tickets so see it as pointless.

Not guards but the Carlisle rentathugs regularly check and issue PFs. Some people got the shock of their life a few months ago on a late night Ellesmere Port service I caught when 2 got on at Hooton, travelled onboard to Ellesmere Port then conducted a full ticket check at the station exit! A few PFs issued!

You do see Merseyrails own RPIs but not as much as Carlisle bods. I did a daysaver last week to get some units in and didn't encounter 1 ticket check all day by anyone!

When I was a kid the guards would check tickets on most journeys and stamp it with a round ink stamp which said BC (depot) and their number on it. The RPIs were the same but said RP. They would also issue paper hand written tickets on a notepad.

I usually get asked for tickets when I get the train from West Kirby into Liverpool at the weekend (no barriers at WK station).
 

samrammstein

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I am a regular commuter on the Chester line and I have encountered many very helpful guards who not only check tickets but also offer excellent travel advice to customers without even being asked.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I'm not a complainer as such however for all of you that live on Merseyside does anyone think it's sad and a let down that merseyrail guards don't ask for tickets anymore ? Seems to just be RPI's and it's such a shame because they used to do it all the time , i know the is barriers at stations but alot of them don't eg: Ellesmere port line! I just think it's sad and all the people getting away with not paying
If you pay the correct fare and know you don't come under that in bold, then you have no need to worry about whether guards are checking or not.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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In my experience, I was only checked by the train manager when on the 777s. Never on the 507/8s.
With respect, if this experience has only been since the 777 introduction, is the journey sample size big enough to reflect an accurate correlation?
 

Djgr

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In the overall scheme of things this is not a big problem. Many travellers have passes and the major ticket flows are barriered.

I am sure that within a decade or so local public transport will be free anyway.
 

RHolmes

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If Merseyrail guards can’t:

- Sell new tickets/upgrades because they’ve not been issued with a ticket machine or float
- Penalty fare passengers who have no ticket because they aren’t trained nor authorised to do so
- Issue a UFN/TIR because they have no way of checking passenger details if the person doesn’t have ID
- Eject passengers travelling with no ticket and refusing to purchase one

Then what is the benefit/point of the guard checking tickets when they can’t do anything about passengers who don’t have a valid one (if at all)?
 

voyagerdude220

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I got checked on a 777 between Liverpool and Kirkby around a month ago on a Saturday afternoon by the very friendly Conductor shortly before we reached Kirkby.

I remember being sat at the very rear of the train and seeing the Conductor standing at their local door for the whole journey before they performed a full check on the last leg of the journey into Kirkby. They never returned to the back cab whilst I was on the train so they were visible throughout the journey.
 

185

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Merseyrail? I thought that TOC was called Carlisle nowadays.

A mixed bag of ticketing knowledge, some good, some not so... "errr, what's that mate?" :lol:

Guards also do occasionally go through, often between Moreton and West Kirby.
 
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L401CJF

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I got checked on a 777 between Liverpool and Kirkby around a month ago on a Saturday afternoon by the very friendly Conductor shortly before we reached Kirkby.

I remember being sat at the very rear of the train and seeing the Conductor standing at their local door for the whole journey before they performed a full check on the last leg of the journey into Kirkby. They never returned to the back cab whilst I was on the train so they were visible throughout the journey.
On the 777 the guard isn't supposed to be in the cab except in "exceptional circumstances". They're expected to be within the train at all times.
 

yorkie

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I think random rpi checks are patrols are much more useful. After all what are staff meant to do when they encounter a non payer?
Meanwhile on Northern services where I am, it's very rare that the Guard doesn't check tickets, so I don't see why Merseyrail should be any different.

On suburban Scotrail services in the Glasgow area, the second member of staff (not a Guard) proactively checks tickets constantly; I don't think there is anything inherently more dangerous about the Merseyside network than in the Glasgow area that would preclude ticket checks being conducted routinely.

If Merseyrail guards can’t:

- Sell new tickets/upgrades because they’ve not been issued with a ticket machine or float
- Penalty fare passengers who have no ticket because they aren’t trained nor authorised to do so
- Issue a UFN/TIR because they have no way of checking passenger details if the person doesn’t have ID
- Eject passengers travelling with no ticket and refusing to purchase one

Then what is the benefit/point of the guard checking tickets when they can’t do anything about passengers who don’t have a valid one (if at all)?
By that logic (notwithstanding the first point), you'd be arguing against Northern guards carrying out ticket checks? If you are going to have a second person on a train, they ought to be checking tickets in my opinion.
 

RHolmes

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By that logic (notwithstanding the first point), you'd be arguing against Northern guards carrying out ticket checks? If you are going to have a second person on a train, they ought to be checking tickets in my opinion.

Northern can issue UFN’s using Star Mobile and sell and amend tickets

Merseyrail don’t have anything at all to conduct ticket checks with, that’s the difference.

Present a Metro smart card? Can’t scan or active it.
Present an off-peak ticket at peak time? Can’t excess it
Forgot your railcard? Can’t sell you a new ticket
Present no ticket? Can ask you to leave at the next station to buy one but can’t physically force you
 

LowLevel

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Northern can issue UFN’s using Star Mobile and sell and amend tickets

Merseyrail don’t have anything at all to conduct ticket checks with, that’s the difference.

Present a Metro smart card? Can’t scan or active it.
Present an off-peak ticket at peak time? Can’t excess it
Forgot your railcard? Can’t sell you a new ticket
Present no ticket? Can ask you to leave at the next station to buy one but can’t physically force you
It's a good customer service ice breaker and it is a strong reminder that there's a presence in the train. I can smile and be friendly without seeming odd because there's a reason for the interaction.

I still check tickets if my ticket machine is broken. It might give someone who is not feeling confident an excuse to talk to me about anything as benign as a connection or as serious as someone harassing them or similar without being obvious.

The amount of times I check a ticket and finish up talking to someone about something else entirely isn't small.

I'm a big fan of guards always checking tickets.
 

stuart100100

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Northern can issue UFN’s using Star Mobile and sell and amend tickets

Merseyrail don’t have anything at all to conduct ticket checks with, that’s the difference.

Present a Metro smart card? Can’t scan or active it.
I had my saveaway checked by a friendly guard on a 777 on the Kirkby line recently.

It was on a metro card and she had some sort of phone shaped electronic device that scanned it....although whether that was just for show I don't know :D
 

Bletchleyite

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I believe checking tickets is part of the new role on the 777s though I don't think they can sell them so it's just a case of "get off and buy one"->"no"->"whatever" I guess.
 

D821

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Interestingly, I've just had a guard come round with a police officer on my train home. At least, I think it was a guard.
Edit:
It was an RPO, not a guard.
 
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