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Merseyrail strike timetable (no service on strike days)

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Watershed

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There will be no Merseyrail services at all on the three days of strike action.

On 22 and 24 June services will start later, at approximately 0700, with rail replacement buses before then.

https://www.merseyrail.org/plan-your-journey/network-rail-strike-action.aspx
Liverpool is possibly one of the worst affected areas by the strike action. Given that Merseyrail staff aren't actually on strike, and that there are just two workstations at Sandhills, it's rather disappointing that none of the network is open.
 

Bletchleyite

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Liverpool is possibly one of the worst affected areas by the strike action. Given that Merseyrail staff aren't actually on strike, and that there are just two workstations at Sandhills, it's rather disappointing that none of the network is open.

One thing Liverpool does have, though, is a strong trade unionist bias, so I don't doubt that 100% of the Sandhills signallers would vote in favour and would be unwilling to break the strike.
 

Watershed

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One thing Liverpool does have, though, is a strong trade unionist bias, so I don't doubt that 100% of the Sandhills signallers would vote in favour and would be unwilling to break the strike.
Even if so (and I imagine that's the basis on which most planning nationwide has gone on), it would take just 2 competent managers to get the network open. Hardly a huge ask, I'd have thought?
 

CAF397

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2 Managers to work 12 hours? Factoring in meal relief too, as I'm sure they are governed by VDU regulations about number of hours sat at screens. I'm sure Sandhills also has crossing keepers overseeing the numerous CCTV level crossings. So the minimum amount of competent staff starts to increase.
 

jamesst

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2 Managers to work 12 hours? Factoring in meal relief too, as I'm sure they are governed by VDU regulations about number of hours sat at screens. I'm sure Sandhills also has crossing keepers overseeing the numerous CCTV level crossings. So the minimum amount of competent staff starts to increase.

Spot on, it would take more staff than many realise.
Southports , Omskirks and West Kirbys would be a non starter straight away due to the crossings. Anything past Rock Ferry no chance as Sandhills doesnt signal past Spital and Chester box is closed.
Hunts Cross no chance as Sandhills doesn't signal past Liverpool Central.
That doesn't leave a hell of a lot.
 

Watershed

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Spot on, it would take more staff than many realise.
Southports , Omskirks and West Kirbys would be a non starter straight away due to the crossings. Anything past Rock Ferry no chance as Sandhills doesnt signal past Spital and Chester box is closed.
Hunts Cross no chance as Sandhills doesn't signal past Liverpool Central.
That doesn't leave a hell of a lot.
I'm not suggesting it would just be 2 managers and that's it; but compared with other areas of the country it really wouldn't be that impossible.

Even if services only ran in the area controlled by Sandhills (which would mean that South Parkway and Chester would be cut off) that would still be a considerable improvement.
 

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It's very surprising that the signal box at Deansgate Junction near Navigation Road is going to be open on all of the strike days (even though no heavy rail service will be able to run within its control area as all of the adjacent boxes won't be opened) so that Metrolink will be able to serve Altrincham. And yet nothing can run on Merseyrail at all.

Spot on, it would take more staff than many realise.
Southports , Omskirks and West Kirbys would be a non starter straight away due to the crossings. Anything past Rock Ferry no chance as Sandhills doesnt signal past Spital and Chester box is closed.
Hunts Cross no chance as Sandhills doesn't signal past Liverpool Central.
That doesn't leave a hell of a lot.
To be fair even if the only route that ran was Rock Ferry circuits via Liverpool Central that would make a pretty big difference given the capacity of the road tunnels.
 

jamesst

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It's very surprising that the signal box at Deansgate Junction near Navigation Road is going to be open on all of the strike days (even though no heavy rail service will be able to run within its control area as all of the adjacent boxes won't be opened) so that Metrolink will be able to serve Altrincham. And yet nothing can run on Merseyrail at all.


To be fair even if the only route that ran was Rock Ferry circuits via Liverpool Central that would make a pretty big difference given the capacity of the road tunnels.

Theres an outline plan to do just that ie shuttles to rock ferry, Birkenhead North etc but that's of course dependant on any extra network rail staff appearing...
 

HuggyB87

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According to this link Sandhills has 2 signallers, 2 crossing keepers and 1 ECRO - these desks, I would imagine must always be manned, so would require meal relief etc. Plus, theres MOMs, S&T etc to take into account.

Even if positions could be covered to allow the network to operate safely, it would only be as far as Liverpool Central for the Northern Line, and Hooton for Wirral as further are controlled by HNX and CTR signallers.
 

jamesst

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According to this link Sandhills has 2 signallers, 2 crossing keepers and 1 ECRO - these desks, I would imagine must always be manned, so would require meal relief etc. Plus, theres MOMs, S&T etc to take into account.

Even if positions could be covered to allow the network to operate safely, it would only be as far as Liverpool Central for the Northern Line, and Hooton for Wirral as further are controlled by HNX and CTR signallers.

Rock Ferry not Hooton.
 

Horizon22

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One thing Liverpool does have, though, is a strong trade unionist bias, so I don't doubt that 100% of the Sandhills signallers would vote in favour and would be unwilling to break the strike.

This was my first thought too; demographically and politically speaking, its likely certain managers might not want to volunteer to take on contingency roles.
 

markymark2000

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Given the amount of areas which wouldn't be served, due to crossings or Merseyrail not signalling the areas, I ask this. With technology being how it is, could it be worked out for 1 person to do 2 workstations? Kirkby to Central, Rock Ferry to Loop and New Brighton to Loop can't need that much signalling surely overall? If you add in all the other lines, 1 workstation would be too high of a workload, that's completely fair but take out more than 1/2 of the network, could 1 person do it? Plus meal breaks of course something would need looking at.
 

PupCuff

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Given the amount of areas which wouldn't be served, due to crossings or Merseyrail not signalling the areas, I ask this. With technology being how it is, could it be worked out for 1 person to do 2 workstations? Kirkby to Central, Rock Ferry to Loop and New Brighton to Loop can't need that much signalling surely overall? If you add in all the other lines, 1 workstation would be too high of a workload, that's completely fair but take out more than 1/2 of the network, could 1 person do it? Plus meal breaks of course something would need looking at.
The problem is what you end up doing then is putting additional pressure on the contingency staff, which means they're less likely to be able to effectively manage disruption, risk suffering adverse safety consequences owing to overwork, and, more pressingly, you're going to lose the goodwill of the contingency staff to actually volunteer to work if they're going to have to come in for a 12 hour shift knowing they're going to have to be jumping between desks every five minutes.

It's one of those really - is it right to hold management working trains/panels/workstations to different working conditions and standards than we would hold substantive conductors/signallers/ECOs/etc? The workload management processes, safety standards and whatnot are there to guard against the failings of us as humans, and at the end of the day management working in these circumstances are as susceptible to human factors issues as any other worker.
 

markymark2000

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The problem is what you end up doing then is putting additional pressure on the contingency staff, which means they're less likely to be able to effectively manage disruption, risk suffering adverse safety consequences owing to overwork, and, more pressingly, you're going to lose the goodwill of the contingency staff to actually volunteer to work if they're going to have to come in for a 12 hour shift knowing they're going to have to be jumping between desks every five minutes.

It's one of those really - is it right to hold management working trains/panels/workstations to different working conditions and standards than we would hold substantive conductors/signallers/ECOs/etc? The workload management processes, safety standards and whatnot are there to guard against the failings of us as humans, and at the end of the day management working in these circumstances are as susceptible to human factors issues as any other worker.
You don't want to lose goodwill of the contingency staff but at the same time you want to maximise them. You don't want 1 person to just be sat sorting Kirkby - Liverpool Central as that is surely a waste of a signaller.
 
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Extra opportunity to sort the axle bearing issues then
Relevant question - are the heavy maintenance activities affected by the strikes (do they even work Saturdays?), and how does the reduced service miles from three days of not running stack up against the time lost to trains in the wrong place, no drivers to move trains etc.?
 

jamesst

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Relevant question - are the heavy maintenance activities affected by the strikes (do they even work Saturdays?), and how does the reduced service miles from three days of not running stack up against the time lost to trains in the wrong place, no drivers to move trains etc.?

End of service tonight the units will be left in there starting places for Wednesday and so on throughout the week so they won't just be left in the wrong places as such. It'll still be possible to shunt units round the depots during strike days just not on the main line.
 

karlbbb

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End of service tonight the units will be left in there starting places for Wednesday and so on throughout the week so they won't just be left in the wrong places as such. It'll still be possible to shunt units round the depots during strike days just not on the main line.
Interesting; so with the first Ormskirk-Central service starting at Maghull on Wednesday and Friday, we'll likely see a unit sat there from tonight to Wednesday morning? Hope they lock the station, that seems like a prime graffiti opportunity!
 

jamesst

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Interesting; so with the first Ormskirk-Central service starting at Maghull on Wednesday and Friday, we'll likely see a unit sat there from tonight to Wednesday morning? Hope they lock the station, that seems like a prime graffiti opportunity!

Sorry I meant where they're normally stored ie the Northern line units at Kirkdale and Southport. The Maghull starter will come from Kirkdale.
 

Statto

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Interesting; so with the first Ormskirk-Central service starting at Maghull on Wednesday and Friday, we'll likely see a unit sat there from tonight to Wednesday morning? Hope they lock the station, that seems like a prime graffiti opportunity!

According to realtime trains, it's not being stabled at Maghull, it's running ECS from Kirkdale TMD, last train to Ormskirk tonight, then runs ECS back to Kirkdale TMD
 

jamesst

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That makes more sense. Thanks both.

To be fair it's not at all unusual for a unit or 2 to be stabled at Ormskirk, normally when there's engineering work on further down the line or when there's reduced capacity on Kirkdale depot for whatever reason.
 

Bletchleyite

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To be fair it's not at all unusual for a unit or 2 to be stabled at Ormskirk, normally when there's engineering work on further down the line or when there's reduced capacity on Kirkdale depot for whatever reason.

To be fair Ormskirk station is locked up overnight, the only entrance is via the booking office. However it wouldn't be unduly hard to jump the fence.
 

karlbbb

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This seems to be the most appropriate place to ask - where would the train be "turned" to get on the correct side at Maghull? I don't believe the track is has bi-directional working past Sandhills, and the crossover close to Maghull seems to be the "wrong way".

So does the train stop short of Maghull on the Down Ormskirk, reverse direction, then use the crossover to get onto the Up Ormskirk, then reverse again into Maghull, then finally "reverse" again and continue the timetable is normal on the Up Ormskirk?
 

razor89

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This seems to be the most appropriate place to ask - where would the train be "turned" to get on the correct side at Maghull? I don't believe the track is has bi-directional working past Sandhills, and the crossover close to Maghull seems to be the "wrong way".

So does the train stop short of Maghull on the Down Ormskirk, reverse direction, then use the crossover to get onto the Up Ormskirk, then reverse again into Maghull, then finally "reverse" again and continue the timetable is normal on the Up Ormskirk?

The down platform at Maghull has a main aspect signal in the Up direction, so trains can simply reverse in the platform and use the crossover south of the station to get to the Up line.
 

Bletchleyite

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The down platform at Maghull has a main aspect signal in the Up direction, so trains can simply reverse in the platform and use the crossover south of the station to get to the Up line.

More common to run semifast to deal with disruption, though. I've only ever once experienced this crossover being used to get a late train back on time. It is used if there's engineering work north of Maghull, though.
 

MP393

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To be fair Ormskirk station is locked up overnight, the only entrance is via the booking office. However it wouldn't be unduly hard to jump the fence.

Ormskirk isn’t locked overnight, there’s an open gate to access the platform when the booking office is closed, I’ve photographed multiple test trains there overnight after the BO has closed and there is definitely no locked gate
 
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