Merseyside: New stations planned

[fowler9]

I have to admit one thing that has interested me has been people saying we need a train link to the cruise terminal. A cruise ship carries less people than go to a Tranmere game and no one is suggesting a dedicated station for Tranmere.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have to admit one thing that has interested me has been people saying we need a train link to the cruise terminal. A cruise ship carries less people than go to a Tranmere game and no one is suggesting a dedicated station for Tranmere.

They might not be suggesting a dedicated railway station for Tranmere in 2015, but the idea seemed to be a good one at the time for the Chester and Birkenhead Railway, as they built such a station in Tranmere in June 1846 and called it "Lime Kiln Lane", then shortly afterwards to "St Paul's Road" before finally settling on the name "Tranmere" in 1853.

However, as was common at the time in the railway mania period, not all aspirations seemed to see results that matched, so this station was closed as early as 1857.

 

[Wavertreelad]

One thing to keep in mind is that by extending the Wirral line from Ellsmere port to Warrington BQ can add a lot of places including Runcorn to the Merseyrail network. Going East from Ellesmere port is a nightmare often people end up going via Chester.

With the Halton Curve approved extending the Merseyrail network from Ellesmere Port to Runcorn with OHLE would seem a logical development and could be operated by any new Merseyrail dual voltage stock.

There are about 50 cruise ships scheduled to visit Liverpool during 2015, with a maximum during late spring & summer, but also some gaps of 2-3 months in winter & autumn. I see no way that anyone is going to spend a fortune to provide rail, or tram-train facilities when there is no passenger need for long periods. Rail construction is expensive and needs a consistent daily demand to have any hope of justifying the expenditure.

Likewise, a station for football - with little more than 50 match days per year - there are over 300 days each year without football matches. It is hard to justify spending lots of money on a facility that will only see significant use on only about one day in seven.

(Plus, hopefully, Everton will not be allowed to wreck Walton Hall Park - indeed they may even have descended to lower levels before they get the chance to build a new stadium.)

Even Merseytravel can dream of what it might like to happen, but it is our money that they would need to spend, and if they are seen to be wasting our money, the council representatives are liable to find themselves "off the council" at elections.

I'd totally agree that on their own train or tram links to either the cruise or football grounds could never be justified unless they were part of other developments. As far as Liverpool is concerned the present cruise terminal is never going to generate sufficient volumes even if you include the daily passengers travelling to the Isle of Mann and Dublin or Belfast which are also served from the Birkenhead terminal. Perhaps one of the problems with the Pier Head location of the present Cruise Terminal is the remoteness from major public transport facilities although perhaps when more permanent facilities are developed it may be possible to improve the experience for travellers, but never as far as train or tram links. As far a the football stadia are concerned, the best that is likely to happen is a return to passenger services along the Bootle Branch which would then allow a new station to be constructed at Towesend Avenue to serve the wider community. The proposed Everton site on Walton Hall Park is almost certainly a no go for a rail connection of any sort without either massive disruption and cost that could never be justified. However, it should be noted that both Clubs currently do generate large numbers of visitors to the City as anybody trying to secure hotel accommodation on a match night will find. Unfortunately, any sort of direct rail services to the Isle of Mann, Ireland and Norway seem even more remote than HS2/3....but we still have Merseytravel in the new and very expensive office accommodation so who knows.

I have to admit one thing that has interested me has been people saying we need a train link to the cruise terminal. A cruise ship carries less people than go to a Tranmere game and no one is suggesting a dedicated station for Tranmere.

Totally agree, one thing we should not ignore is the pulling power of special events taking place on the River which can generate huge numbers of visitors to the City which rail can benefit from. With this in mind the visit of three Cunard Liners to the River later this year should prove a challenge for the rail industry.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/river-ballet-see-three-queens-8381109

 

[8A Rail]

........................ Totally agree, one thing we should not ignore is the pulling power of special events taking place on the River which can generate huge numbers of visitors to the City which rail can benefit from. With this in mind the visit of three Cunard Liners to the River later this year should prove a challenge for the rail industry.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/river-ballet-see-three-queens-8381109

And will the rail companies actually arrange for their trains to operate with extra capacity on the Sunday and especially the Monday morning? Monday's timetable will be a normal operating day but will they be able to increase carriages on those trains - I reckon not as it is simply not available but may be able to reduce capacity on trains outside the area and put those carriages on Liverpool bound trains instead?

(The parade of the three ships is about late morning / dinnertime before Queen Mary 2 departs the Mersey for St Peter Port with same ship arriving CLT the day before).

Personally I have anticapated what may happen regarding getting to the event whether its car, bus or train - I'm staying overnight Sunday in New Brighton with my car already parked up - that way just walk down the prom the following morning (well that is the theory).

 

[Wavertreelad]

And will the rail companies actually arrange for their trains to operate with extra capacity on the Sunday and especially the Monday morning? Monday's timetable will be a normal operating day but will they be able to increase carriages on those trains - I reckon not as it is simply not available but may be able to reduce capacity on trains outside the area and put those carriages on Liverpool bound trains instead?

(The parade of the three ships is about late morning / dinnertime before Queen Mary 2 departs the Mersey for St Peter Port with same ship arriving CLT the day before).

Personally I have anticapated what may happen regarding getting to the event whether its car, bus or train - I'm staying overnight Sunday in New Brighton with my car already parked up - that way just walk down the prom the following morning (well that is the theory).

I suspect you may be absolutely right, although those responsible may well be aware of the problems following the Giants Parade last year and at least try and step up the challenge.

 

[fowler9]

I suspect you may be absolutely right, although those responsible may well be aware of the problems following the Giants Parade last year and at least try and step up the challenge.

I somehow doubt they will, they hadn't learned from the first giants event at the last one. On the plus side for me I can walk from mine to the river in about 15 minutes and have a very pleasant walk in to town in a total of just over an hour.

 

[UrbanWorld]

There are about 50 cruise ships scheduled to visit Liverpool during 2015, with a maximum during late spring & summer, but also some gaps of 2-3 months in winter & autumn. I see no way that anyone is going to spend a fortune to provide rail, or tram-train facilities when there is no passenger need for long periods. Rail construction is expensive and needs a consistent daily demand to have any hope of justifying the expenditure.

Liverpool has port of call cruise ships that visit the city. The port now has start and stop cruises. These will increase greatly once the terminal facilities are in place. Cruise companies are looking at all types of cruises, weekend short Irish Sea cruises, short Scottish island cruises, round UK, Norwegian fiords/Scottish islands, Baltic, Spain/Portugal, etc.

The cruise business is expanding greatly. It is predicted Liverpool will take a fair share of the expanding cruise business as the catchment area adjacent to the port is phenomenal, and the city is easy to get to being the most central major city in the UK. The terminal is in the city centre with an adjacent underground station, James Street.

James St station has an unused platform. All the station needs for commuters and cruise passengers is another lift shaft sunk to the far end of the platforms, which will emerge at the waterfront and near the cruise terminal. This is not a lot of expense by rail standards.

Cruise passengers can check into a cruise check-in point at the station, and not see their luggage until the get into their cabin, with passengers dropping into the underground station below to take the metro to James St and the cruise terminal. Those on a weekend cruise leaving at say in the evening (Liverpool cruise terminal is not dependent on tides) will not be staying in local hotels.

The existing Central Stn to James St tunnel is now used as a shunt tunnel. This tunnel can be two tracked again with cruise trains accessing James St. But two thing need to happen:

1. The Northern Line tunnel from the south can access James St. Of course the Liverpool to Manchester via Warrington line needs to be electrified to have direct cruise trains come from Manchester/Leeds/etc. Or;

2. Complete the Edge Hill Spur project, the Wapping Tunnel. This will allow electric train from Edge Hill to access Central and James St.

So, cruise passengers can access James St:

1. As it is now with only a new elevator shaft sunk;
2. Via Edge and the Wapping Tunnel with a new elevator shaft sunk;
3. Via the south via the line to Warrington with a new elevator shaft sunk;

Football. If Everton FC build a 60,000 stadium and maintain an average of 55,000 and Liverpool an average of 60,000 and with league and cup games and both clubs have a conservative average of 27 games per year, then EFC will attract just under 1.5 million fans per year. LFC, over 1.62 million. that is over 2.1 million per year on football alone. Get 50% to access the stadia by rail that is over one million passengers. Then any summer concerts at the stadia on top of that. Then the normal locals who would be using the stations to commute or whatever. The figures look good.

 

[Bevan Price]

And will the rail companies actually arrange for their trains to operate with extra capacity on the Sunday and especially the Monday morning? Monday's timetable will be a normal operating day but will they be able to increase carriages on those trains - I reckon not as it is simply not available but may be able to reduce capacity on trains outside the area and put those carriages on Liverpool bound trains instead?

:

No - but hopefully by late May, there will be 4 coach Class 319s on the Wigan & Manchester Victoria lines instead of the current allocation of mainly 2 car dmus.

 

[martynbristow]

I suspect you may be absolutely right, although those responsible may well be aware of the problems following the Giants Parade last year and at least try and step up the challenge.

I'm sure they are AWARE of the problem but do they want to fix it.
Last year they knew that stations would be busy and closed a few but I didn't really see a considerable relief plan.
I know for the capital of culture in 2008 they had a few fast trains to shift people.
But I'm not sure who pulls the strings in the franshise Merseyrail or Merseytravel :/

 

[frodshamfella]

With the Halton Curve approved extending the Merseyrail network from Ellesmere Port to Runcorn with OHLE would seem a logical development and could be operated by any new Merseyrail dual voltage stock.


I'd totally agree that on their own train or tram links to either the cruise or football grounds could never be justified unless they were part of other developments. As far as Liverpool is concerned the present cruise terminal is never going to generate sufficient volumes even if you include the daily passengers travelling to the Isle of Mann and Dublin or Belfast which are also served from the Birkenhead terminal. Perhaps one of the problems with the Pier Head location of the present Cruise Terminal is the remoteness from major public transport facilities although perhaps when more permanent facilities are developed it may be possible to improve the experience for travellers, but never as far as train or tram links. As far a the football stadia are concerned, the best that is likely to happen is a return to passenger services along the Bootle Branch which would then allow a new station to be constructed at Towesend Avenue to serve the wider community. The proposed Everton site on Walton Hall Park is almost certainly a no go for a rail connection of any sort without either massive disruption and cost that could never be justified. However, it should be noted that both Clubs currently do generate large numbers of visitors to the City as anybody trying to secure hotel accommodation on a match night will find. Unfortunately, any sort of direct rail services to the Isle of Mann, Ireland and Norway seem even more remote than HS2/3....but we still have Merseytravel in the new and very expensive office accommodation so who knows.



Totally agree, one thing we should not ignore is the pulling power of special events taking place on the River which can generate huge numbers of visitors to the City which rail can benefit from. With this in mind the visit of three Cunard Liners to the River later this year should prove a challenge for the rail industry.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/river-ballet-see-three-queens-8381109

I use Frodsham Station and would love to see Merseyrail on our line, to supplement the hourly often overcrowded and late Arriva Trains Wales service. Im also looking forward to a link to Liverpool and Liverpool Airport ( South Parkway) via Halton Curve, very handy. I understood there was plans for a station at Beechwood as well .

 

[UrbanWorld]

The proposed Everton site on Walton Hall Park is almost certainly a no go for a rail connection of any sort without either massive disruption and cost that could never be justified. However, it should be noted that both Clubs currently do generate large numbers of visitors to the City as anybody trying to secure hotel accommodation on a match night will find. Unfortunately, any sort of direct rail services to the Isle of Mann, Ireland and Norway seem even more remote

The eastern section of the Outer Loop skirts Walton Hall Park. It is all mothballed trackbed and easy to reintroduce. The thousands of Norwegians who attend Liverpool FC games each homes match would benefit from a direct station at the airport and a direct station at the stadium. Charter planes could bring them in the morning and they could travel directly to the stadium by Merseyrail and directly back to the plane to go back to Norway. In the Spring and summer months of the football season the football fans can be a nuisance in the city centre hogging hotel accommodation.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I use Frodsham Station and would love to see Merseyrail on our line, to supplement the hourly often overcrowded and late Arriva Trains Wales service. Im also looking forward to a link to Liverpool and Liverpool Airport ( South Parkway) via Halton Curve, very handy. I understood there was plans for a station at Beechwood as well .

There used to be a good service, half hourly if I remember correctly, from Helsby to Rock Ferry where you changed to Merseyrail Electric. Then in the 90's electrification crept down first to Hooton, then E Port and the service from Helsby was cut back because of poor patronage (M53). I agree with you that the Halton Curve would be a boon and so would electrification from E Port to Runcorn. The Curve has funding but I think we may be waiting a while for electrification.

 

[Wavertreelad]

I've mentioned in this this thread previously about the need for warehousing to handle the freight moving through the Port of Liverpool and the fact that Peel has acquired a large site on Kirkby Industrial Estate next to the Potter railhead. This week it has been brought to my attention Peel has leased warehousing facilities on the Atlantic Park Industrial Estate on Dunningsbridge Road.

http://www.atlanticpark.co.uk/pdfdownloads/BigFt_summaryA4.pdf

Contrary to the statement on the link above, I understand they have leased all the warehousing facilities on the site as it was all vacant and it is currently being filled with steel products.

The site was rail linked from the North Mersey Branch, but the connection has since seen Vesty Road built upon it, and the level crossing across Bridle Road removed. Whilst it would be probably near impossible to restore a rail link from the North Mersey Branch to the site for freight traffic, the location and size of the site and thus potential for new warehousing and office developments could, if fully developed help the case for reopening Ford Station which was located on the North Mersey Branch adjacent to the bridge on Netherton Way. Early days yet, it will be interesting to see if there are further developments on the Atlantic Park Site in the coming years.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst it would be probably near impossible to restore a rail link from the North Mersey Branch to the site for freight traffic, the location and size of the site and thus potential for new warehousing and office developments could, if fully developed help the case for reopening Ford Station which was located on the North Mersey Branch adjacent to the bridge on Netherton Way. Early days yet, it will be interesting to see if there are further developments on the Atlantic Park Site in the coming years.

Ford station was closed nearly 64 years ago on 20th April 1951 and the station was totally demolished by 1st May 1959. I understand that the line was singled in 1986.

 

[UrbanWorld]

Ford station was closed nearly 64 years ago on 20th April 1951 and the station was totally demolished by 1st May 1959. I understand that the line was singled in 1986.

A station named Giro was to be on Merseyrail with the electrification of the North Mersey branch line.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Ford station was closed nearly 64 years ago on 20th April 1951 and the station was totally demolished by 1st May 1959. I understand that the line was singled in 1986.

And since 1959 there have been considerable changes in the area which is why even when Liverpool Containerbase was built in the 1960's sufficient space was allowed for restoring the station. The site of the containerbase remains, it is now partly a Ford Car Dealership as well as mixed industrial and storage area, whilst across the other side of Bridle Road is the site of the former National Giro Bank now owned by Santander. The area is not particularly well served by public transport and is probably one of the reasons why since the 1970's Merseytravel have had ambitions to open reopen the North Mersey Branch as well as reopening stations on the route at Ford and Linacre Road. As far a I know the single track remains in-situ but is heavily overgrown.

 

[UrbanWorld]

one of the reasons why since the 1970's Merseytravel have had ambitions to open reopen the North Mersey Branch as well as reopening stations on the route at Ford and Linacre Road. As far a I know the single track remains in-situ but is heavily overgrown.

It is used by Merseyrail diesel maintenance trains. As it is used it is easy to seriously start up the line again.

 

[8A Rail]

And since 1959 there have been considerable changes in the area which is why even when Liverpool Containerbase was built in the 1960's sufficient space was allowed for restoring the station. The site of the containerbase remains, it is now partly a Ford Car Dealership as well as mixed industrial and storage area, whilst across the other side of Bridle Road is the site of the former National Giro Bank now owned by Santander. The area is not particularly well served by public transport and is probably one of the reasons why since the 1970's Merseytravel have had ambitions to open reopen the North Mersey Branch as well as reopening stations on the route at Ford and Linacre Road. As far a I know the single track remains in-situ but is heavily overgrown.

Yes the line remains that is for sure - whether its fit to travel on is another matter. As the "plans" have been on since the early 1970's which was over 40yrs ago but they are no nearer to even getting planned on the drawing board, let alone anything else, I personally think they will always remain a fantasy. Employment in that area is now considerably down from what it use to be e.g. Girobank was over 6000 in the 70's and now with Santander is I believe around 1500. Other employers in the area new and old have fared no better either. Also I dont think there has been any growth in the population on either side of the line - probably decreased I suspect. So really the case for the reinstatement of North Mersey Line was best probably about 30 yrs ago and since then gone on a down ward spiral. Currently there is far more important locations etc in Merseyside that need funding and facilities to boot.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Yes the line remains that is for sure - whether its fit to travel on is another matter. As the "plans" have been on since the early 1970's which was over 40yrs ago but they are no nearer to even getting planned on the drawing board, let alone anything else, I personally think they will always remain a fantasy. Employment in that area is now considerably down from what it use to be e.g. Girobank was over 6000 in the 70's and now with Santander is I believe around 1500. Other employers in the area new and old have fared no better either. Also I dont think there has been any growth in the population on either side of the line - probably decreased I suspect. So really the case for the reinstatement of North Mersey Line was best probably about 30 yrs ago and since then gone on a down ward spiral. Currently there is far more important locations etc in Merseyside that need funding and facilities to boot.

I'd certainly would not disagree that there are probably more locations on the Merseyrail network that are in more deserved of an early start, when, or perhaps if, the 30 year plan proposals are started. Having said that, the proposals are not just about serving present needs, but also expanding areas of opportunity for the population. The Atlantic Park site is huge and is largely build ready for development of freight village as it's location is almost perfect to service an expanding Port of Liverpool. What it and for that matter Knowsley 700 lacks is good access to public transport to allow those areas of population that traditionally work in these industries or service them to reach the sites.

I doubt if the residential population in the area has dropped in the last 50 years but would agree that current employment requirements in the area are almost certainly reduced from those of 40 or 50 years ago. However, there has been quite a bit of light industrial development in the area along Bridle Road and towards Aintree Station on the site of former Aintree Shed, whilst off Ormskirk Road is an expanding retail park next to Aintree Racecourse.

Reopening the North Mersey Branch and stations at Linacre Road and Ford would certainly allow this part of north Merseyside to share the benefit of the Merseyrail network, but I suspect it's reopening would have to be linked to a reopening of passenger traffic on the Bootle Branch and/or an extension of network to Preston and beyond, both of which I would think are some years away at best.

 

[WatcherZero]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/watch-biggest-merseyrail-train-ever-8468958

Not very often you see an 18 coach Merseyrail formation :P

 

[L+Y]

It is used by Merseyrail diesel maintenance trains. As it is used it is easy to seriously start up the line again.

The North Mersey was last used, I believe, in 2010. Since then, rampant tree growth has made the route impassable for trains.

 

[8A Rail]

The North Mersey was last used, I believe, in 2010. Since then, rampant tree growth has made the route impassable for trains.

Poss 16th March 2010 as last date when MPV transversed the line. In order for the line to be reused on a regular basis, it would probably in some if not all parts, need to be relaid. I'm not sure that "Urban World" gets out and about to that part of the world to make such a statement.

 

[UrbanWorld]

Poss 16th March 2010 as last date when MPV transversed the line. In order for the line to be reused on a regular basis, it would probably in some if not all parts, need to be relaid. I'm not sure that "Urban World" gets out and about to that part of the world to make such a statement.

No. I do not sit on the trackside.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Merseytravel and Merseyrail seem to be in the Liverpool Echo twice this week so far.

First off yesterday is news about a study into reopening St James Station.

"Business leaders say new station would have huge impact on Baltic Triangle and proposed Cains brewery village.

A plan to re-open Liverpool's St James railway station, which has been left abandoned for almost 100 years, will be considered within the next financial year by Merseytravel.

The organisation say they are planning to explore the benefits of bringing the derelict St James station back into use after growing calls from local business leaders that it would help rejuvenate the south side of the city centre, and have included the idea in an official study project to be considered soon.

The importance of the station, which sits on Merseyrail’s Northern Line, was highlighted in a 2012 Liverpool council regeneration blueprint and supporters say it would be crucial to helping the Baltic Triangle revival.

With the regeneration of that area seeing the arrival of crowd-pulling new ventures such as Camp and Furnace and North Liverpool Academy’s life sciences school, demand for better transport links to the area is increasing.

Bosses behind the £150m Cains brewery village have expressed their desire for the station to be reopened and other developments in the area would also benefit according to Mark Lawler, managing director at creative business complex Baltic Creative.

He told the ECHO: “The transport connections to the Baltic Triangle are not great and, while it would be game changer for the Cains site, it would be massive for the whole Baltic Triangle. It’s really important it stays on the agenda and it is really important Merseytravel do what they say they are going to do.”

St James’s station, between Central station and Brunswick station, was built in 1872 but the last services departed from there in December 1916. It is believed the closure followed a tragic accident involving a World War I troop train.

A spokeswoman for Merseytravel today confirmed the study into the cost and demand of the station was still set to take place.

She said Merseytravel will continue to explore the likely demand and cost for a potential re-opening of a station at the old St James Station.

She added: "A formal study to examine this is scheduled to be carried out within the next financial year.”"

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseytravel-plan-st-james-station-8488358


Secondly Merseyrail passengers - put your questions to a Merseyrail boss

Calling all Merseyrail passengers.

Here’s your chance to put any questions you have about your train service to one of its top bosses.

Andy Heath, operations director and deputy managing director of Merseyrail, will be in the Liverpool ECHO offices in Old Hall Street next Tuesday morning, January 27, to answer ECHO readers’ questions.

And passengers with points to put have two ways of making themselves heard.

You can email your question in advance to [email protected] – or you can tweet questions to @LivEchonews between 10am and 11am on Tuesday, January 27.

All these questions will be put to the Merseyrail boss in a live interview on our website. We’ll sit down with Andy Heath, discuss the issues you've raised and bring you the responses live on our website, as well as in the next edition of the ECHO.

ECHO columnist – and daily Merseyrail commuter – Paddy Shennan had his say recently, on the day fares increased. You can read his “Merseyrail needs to get a grip” column here.


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseyrail-passengers---put-your-8492742
I can't be there due to work commitments so if anybody has an opportunity it might be interesting so hear he answers.....

 

[Olaf]

To be political, here, might it be the case that a lot of these Northern Labour councils can rely on a Labour Government not giving them freebies? Labour, unlike the Tories, has no real incentive to prove goodwill towards the North.

What about the money that was lavished on Liverpool by the last Government?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think going to Preston is essential, with the Northern Electrification potentially Northern could be split moving the EMU operations to Merseyrail in the future. Dual stock on the whole Merseyrail network.

If Merseyrail was to acquire dual-voltage stock in the next round, would it not become more integrated with other Transport North (or whatever) services? If so, would it not be better if it was integrated into the Northern franchise?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Liverpool Waters is never going to have the same appeal because of the commercial developments at Princes Dock.

I was under the impression that the Wirral and Liverpool Waters projects had been put to bed when Peel lost it's primary client; do these projects have any substance?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And since 1959 there have been considerable changes in the area which is why even when Liverpool Containerbase was built in the 1960's sufficient space was allowed for restoring the station. The site of the containerbase remains, it is now partly a Ford Car Dealership as well as mixed industrial and storage area, whilst across the other side of Bridle Road is the site of the former National Giro Bank now owned by Santander. The area is not particularly well served by public transport and is probably one of the reasons why since the 1970's Merseytravel have had ambitions to open reopen the North Mersey Branch as well as reopening stations on the route at Ford and Linacre Road. As far a I know the single track remains in-situ but is heavily overgrown.

What are Merseytravel's estimates for potential patronage of any future station in the area? What are their cost estimates?

 

[Wavertreelad]

If Merseyrail was to acquire dual-voltage stock in the next round, would it not become more integrated with other Transport North (or whatever) services? If so, would it not be better if it was integrated into the Northern franchise?

The Merseyrail franchise is much longer than the replacement for Northern, so I would have thought the more likely result will be that some current Northern routes could be transferred to Merseyrail completely were there are no other operators on the line, and some would be operated by "Transport North" on behalf of Merseyrail in the Merseyside region. Thus assuming OHLE electrification of all these routes, Kirkby to Wigan, and Bidston to Wrexham could be completely Merseyrail operated, whilst Preston to Ormskirk via the Bootle Branch to Lime Street, and Chester via Halton Curve to Lime Street could be Transport North.

I was under the impression that the Wirral and Liverpool Waters projects had been put to bed when Peel lost it's primary client; do these projects have any substance?

I'd very surprised if Peel's plans for either or both sites were based on a single client and both are very long term projects so until the economy fully recovers I would not expect to see significant development of either scheme, although I suspect the Wirral Waters scheme will start to materialise first.

What are Merseytravel's estimates for potential patronage of any future station in the area? What are their cost estimates?

I don't believe any estimates have been published recently as presumably this is one of activities that Merseytravel is currently undertaking as part of the development of the 30 year plan.

 

[WatcherZero]

Don't know about other routes, some transfer could be expected if there was further electrification. Main thing Merseytravel has lobbied Rail North for is a Merseyrail branded Liverpool LS-Manchester Airport (politicians think it important Liverpool is seen to have fast/easy transport links to Manchester airport to help attract international investment into Merseyside) which would likely be subcontracted to Northern to operate (and if further electrification a Liverpool-Kirkby-Wigan-Chat Moss-Manchester Airport service too).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

First off yesterday is news about a study into reopening St James Station.

The prospect of asking for a ticket from James St to St James is interesting.
Plenty of scope for confusing tourists...
About a mile apart, direct tunnel route available if needed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was St James railway station situated in a deep cutting?

 

[8A Rail]

(Referring to North Mersey Bch) What are Merseytravel's estimates for potential patronage of any future station in the area? What are their cost estimates?

I think the answer lies is what has not happened as been part of their plans since the early 1970's! I think that alone tells you a story regardless of the reasons - nowt going to change in the future because priorities are elsewhere. So that takes care of that question!