Metro Vision for Cardiff

[swcovas]

The following was reported on BBC Wales site couple of days ago.

Full article and map can be seen on:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-21887504

Metro train vision for Cardiff and rest of south Wales

A new report on how Cardiff and the surrounding areas of south Wales could develop a metro-style train system says it is a chance to rethink the economy
.
The Metro Consortium report sets out plans for a valleys "circle" line, linking Rhymney and Merthyr and Pontypridd.

The proposals also envisage a tram service criss-crossing Cardiff itself.
It is the second report from the body, with members including some of the biggest businesses in south Wales.

The first report, published in 2011, focused on the capital city, while the new report widens out the remit - encompassing a transport system that takes in the south Wales valleys and Newport.

The report recommends:

• A valleys circle line, linking the Rhymney and Merthyr lines via Nelson, and allowing Pontypridd to develop a pivotal role in the regional economy.
• A Cardiff crossrail, using tram-train technology, to fully connect the city to its centre, the bay and to the wider the region.
• A cross valley bus rapid transit system to address poor connectivity between places like Merthyr and Ebbw Vale.
• A major upgrade of connectivity between Newport and Ebbw Vale to help the regeneration of both.

The Metro Consortium, which includes businesses such as Admiral Insurance, British Gas, and Capita Symonds, is also backed by policy big hitters such as Cardiff Business School, the Cardiff Business Partnership, and the Institute of Welsh Affairs."

Sounds good.......if it ever comes off! Any thoughts?
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More information on

http://metroconsortium.co.uk/

 

[Gareth Marston]

The following was reported on BBC Wales site couple of days ago.

Full article and map can be seen on:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-21887504


The Metro Consortium, which includes businesses such as Admiral Insurance, British Gas, and Capita Symonds, is also backed by policy big hitters such as Cardiff Business School, the Cardiff Business Partnership, and the Institute of Welsh Affairs."

Sounds good.......if it ever comes off! Any thoughts?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
More information on

http://metroconsortium.co.uk/

The "problem" is the Welsh Government has committed to spend the bulk of its capital transport infrastructure spend for this decade on the Heads of the Valleys road (A465) the Welsh Govt says dualling this road completely will regenerate the area. However as this road roads runs West-East on the northern periphery of any Cardiff City Region its usefulness in promoting said region is at best very marginal given the road already exists and is free from congestion and that it means any potential public funding for the metro concept is already spoken for for some time.

 

[tbtc]

With all the money they are spending on that Airport, I doubt the politicians in Cardiff Bay have much cash to spare for ambitious rail-based schemes (other than the electrification in CP5 agreed on a UK basis)

 

[Eire Sprinter]

The map on the BBC page suggests the "circle line" will go from around Abercynon to Nelson and onto Ystrad Mynach. Presumably any new line from Abercynon will tie in with the Cwmbargoed branch at Nelson.

A line from south of Quakers Yard across to Nelson appears easier and shorter (no need to intersect the A470).

That said perhaps there are old alignments in the area.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

The "problem" is the Welsh Government has committed to spend the bulk of its capital transport infrastructure spend for this decade on the Heads of the Valleys road (A465) the Welsh Govt says dualling this road completely will regenerate the area. However as this road roads runs West-East on the northern periphery of any Cardiff City Region its usefulness in promoting said region is at best very marginal given the road already exists and is free from congestion and that it means any potential public funding for the metro concept is already spoken for for some time.

The A465 is a perfectly adequate road, as it is. It has become a politicians' road because it is not, wholly, a dual carriageway just as the 'Merthyr Trunk Road' suddenly became a 'necessity' in the Sixties when Labour were terrified of losing seats in the Valleys. This is not, and should not, be a political forum but anyone with half an eye can see what the political agenda is. Whenever infrastructure is mentioned by this government* it is always 'new roads'. Somehow, the cost is never mentioned, only the promised advantages. Yet the modest extensions to Ebbw Vale Town and Hirwaun remain firmly on the back burner. They, apparently, cost money but road schemes seem to be 'essential'.

Under the last government* rail was given a far higher profile because it was cheaper and 'doable'. I fear that we are now stuck with a Sixties mentality where a multi million pound road scheme might save the motorist five minutes for four out of the twenty four hours. Has anyone ever done a real cost benefit analysis of the millions of tons of concrete that saves someone getting up five minutes earlier? I doubt it.

* The Welsh government.

 

[anthony263]

The map on the BBC page suggests the "circle line" will go from around Abercynon to Nelson and onto Ystrad Mynach. Presumably any new line from Abercynon will tie in with the Cwmbargoed branch at Nelson.

A line from south of Quakers Yard across to Nelson appears easier and shorter (no need to intersect the A470).

That said perhaps there are old alignments in the area.

If the money is available then these proposals do sound good in fact I have read through the report.

As for your question about the circle line there are various alingments still in existance a few are now cycle tracks however. I wish they had kept the old link between Taffs Wells and the Rhymney valley line.

Maybe we can get some private investment into these schemes

 

[43074]

A very sensible set of proposals - indeed there is a vast network of disused railways in South Wales following the decline of the coal industry, so it makes sense to use them. And with the increase in rail use in the area over the past 5/10 years or so then we need to think ahead and plan for the future

More sensible than Lowestoft's proposals (:roll which are discussed here.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Not bad, though personally I'd like to see the remaining stubs of the LLTVR and Barry Railway used, ie: Llantrisant-Beddau and St.Ffagans to Creigau.

Ian

 

[anthony263]

Llantrisant - Beddau I think would be a good tram-train route although sadly I think you will be hard pressed to find paths between Cardiff Central & Pontyclun if/when Maesteg goes half hourly along with an hourly swanline service etc

 

[Solaris]

The concept of a Cardiff City Region Metro seems to be gathering momentum..... www.metroconsortium.com includes "Valleys Circle" and "Cardiff Crossrail"

 

[anthony263]

Already downloaded the report that was published recently. Very nice idea's but the main question as always is where is funding for such a scheme going to come from?

There is already another thread running for the Cardiff Metro.

Something else gathering momentum is the proposals for a south wales metro linking Swanbsea in the west with Bath in the east.

This is something I would like to see after electrification is completed to Swansea as it allows the Swansea - Cardiff swanline services to run through to Bristol & Bath which along with the sparks effect should bring a sharp increase in passenger numbers using the service.

Would hope something other than class 315's are used however perhaps some class 319's if the thames valley area gets brand new emu's?

 

[merlodlliw]

With all the money they are spending on that Airport, I doubt the politicians in Cardiff Bay have much cash to spare for ambitious rail-based schemes (other than the electrification in CP5 agreed on a UK basis)

£52 million, for an Airport that can not bring Wales together,Gerald whom I often
criticized, does connect North & South, Rhoose however is a political motive,that assists no one North of Newport.
Perhaps WG will come along to Manchester Airport(its ATW trains go there) to see how its done for us Gogs

Bob

 

[Gareth Marston]

£52 million, for an Airport that can not bring Wales together,Gerald whom I often
criticized, does connect North & South, Rhoose however is a political motive,that assists no one North of Newport.
Perhaps WG will come along to Manchester Airport(its ATW trains go there) to see how its done for us Gogs

Bob

The current administration in the Bay is certainly more road and air focused than previous Assembly's. The First Minister and others are on record as wanting £ billions to upgrade the M4.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

£52 million, for an Airport that can not bring Wales together,Gerald whom I often
criticized, does connect North & South, Rhoose however is a political motive,that assists no one North of Newport.
Perhaps WG will come along to Manchester Airport(its ATW trains go there) to see how its done for us Gogs

Bob

Oh dear, oh dear; here we go again. The main purpose of the airport is, and always was, to serve overseas destinations. Why should it bother you so much anyway when you are close to two other airports? I don't know anyone south of Newport who is objecting to millions being spent on re-doubling an insignificant branch line in the north.

 

[merlodlliw]

Oh dear, oh dear; here we go again. The main purpose of the airport is, and always was, to serve overseas destinations. Why should it bother you so much anyway when you are close to two other airports? I don't know anyone south of Newport who is objecting to millions being spent on re-doubling an insignificant branch line in the north.

It bothers me due to the fact that £52 millions can be found to buy a white elephant, yet hospitals are closed in the North, now where is this insignificant branch line in the north
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The current administration in the Bay is certainly more road and air focused than previous Assembly's. The First Minister and others are on record as wanting £ billions to upgrade the M4.

I gain that impression also,

 

[tbtc]

Why should it bother you so much anyway when you are close to two other airports?

I agree that places in north Wales really ought to have better links to amenities nearby in England

 

[Gwenllian2001]

It bothers me due to the fact that £52 millions can be found to buy a white elephant, yet hospitals are closed in the North,
--- old post above --- --- new post below --- I gain that impression also,

I suppose you think that hospitals are being left alone in the south but what that, or the airport, has to do with railways I don't know.

If you really need something to moan about, have a look at this.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...-heads-of-the-valleys-upgrade-91466-32641713/

Proof, if proof were needed, that this Labour government is road minded.

 

[anthony263]

Can't wait for the next elections and we hopefully get an administration which is less pro-road.

One thing which the current administration should have authorised was the extension to the Ebbw Vale branch to Ebbw Vale town and the Newport - Ebbw Vale service which probably wouldnt have started running til 2017 when the wires are erected and we get hold of some emu's.

Speaking of the Ebbw Vale - Newport service stagecoach withdrew the service 903 Newport Railway Station - Rogerstone Railway station railink service from last night due to lack of use as well as funding cuts. Certainly this was predicted by many of us on this forum and elsewhere

 

[merlodlliw]

I agree that places in north Wales really ought to have better links to amenities nearby in England

fully agree.

I suppose you think that hospitals are being left alone in the south but what that, or the airport, has to do with railways I don't know.

If you really need something to moan about, have a look at this.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...-heads-of-the-valleys-upgrade-91466-32641713/

Proof, if proof were needed, that this Labour government is road minded.

Back to railways then, so where is this insignificant branch line "millions being spent on re-doubling an insignificant branch line in the north" you mention

 

[tbtc]

stagecoach withdrew the service 903 Newport Railway Station - Rogerstone Railway station railink service from last night due to lack of use as well as funding cuts. Certainly this was predicted by many of us on this forum and elsewhere

Was that this one:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/pound...es'+North-South+air+link+'good...-a0178700098

the Western Mail revealed a new bus link between Newport and Rogerstone rail stations was receiving £123 subsidy per passenger

No great surprise to see the subsidy cut if that was the cost per passenger.

 

[Morgsie]

Some pretty good ideas, who will pay for this? I have looked at devolution and I understand that funding is blurred regarding Wales.

On a different note, the Welsh Affairs Committee published a report about cross-border travel

 

[Michael.Y]

(I'll just get this point in before this descends into another inevitable North v South slanging match....)

Catch 22 for Bus 903. When it didn't exist no-one can use it, but when it did exist, no-one used it. Having said that, it did come in handy for one family heading for Newbridge the other night when their train was delayed by 15 mins which meant they would have missed the connection at CDF.

Right - carry on....

 

[merlodlliw]

(I'll just get this point in before this descends into another inevitable North v South slanging match....)

Catch 22 for Bus 903. When it didn't exist no-one can use it, but when it did exist, no-one used it. Having said that, it did come in handy for one family heading for Newbridge the other night when their train was delayed by 15 mins which meant they would have missed the connection at CDF.

Right - carry on....

Hopefully it wont become North v South as far as rail is concerned,anyhow nice to see Gerald working all day Goodfriday & Eastermonday on the North Wales to Crewe runs for extra ferry passengers. Lots of pics here http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

 

[anthony263]

Read a document from railfuture today which proposes a possible light rail link from Porthcawl to Tondu using the old trackbed where possible.

Certainly I think a tram-train system would be good for Porthcawl and could provide a economic boost especially if as railfuture proposes it runs beyond Tondu to serve Blaengarw and Nantymoel. It alos allow people to connect at Tondu with heavy rail services to Maesteg, Bridgend & Cardiff.

 

[Kingston Flyer]

... especially if as railfuture proposes it runs beyond Tondu to serve Blaengarw and Nantymoel.

Surely this would mess up the plans of the Garw Valley Railway.

Link here

 

[anthony263]

I know about the Blaengarw line but perhaps a peak hour service only to Blaengarw timed to fit between heritage services operated by the garw valley railway.

The Nantymoel line will need rebuilding from Brynmenyn - Lewistown however the rest of the trackbed north of lewistown is still intact as a cylepath with the platforms still in place at Ogmore Vale an the formation is wide enough to accomodate a single track line with some passing loops along with a cycle path.

The Nantymoel are is more developed that the Garw valley so I think would justify a better service than the Garw.

 

[swcovas]

Read a document from railfuture today which proposes a possible light rail link from Porthcawl to Tondu using the old trackbed where possible.

Certainly I think a tram-train system would be good for Porthcawl and could provide a economic boost especially if as railfuture proposes it runs beyond Tondu to serve Blaengarw and Nantymoel. It alos allow people to connect at Tondu with heavy rail services to Maesteg, Bridgend & Cardiff.

Pie in the sky I think! For a start most of the trackbed has disappeared. The line "finally" closed in 1964 after it had been previously recommended that services be retained for summer only operation (was this unique in UK?). In reality the local authority couldn't wait for the line to be closed so that a troublesome level crossing could be dispensd with a land freed up for a new road to solve the problems of traffic congestion in summer which duly materialised. Other land outside the town has also been lost.

Had it survived the rail link to Pyle and Bridgend and on to Cardiff would, I am sure, be well used today being very competitive with the bus service which takes 90 minutes as well as being useful for bringing in the vast number of summer visitors to the town because even with the new road built on the trackbed it is still very congested in summer.

 

[Quakers Yard]

I would like to see just how the link from Quakers Yard to Treharris and then to Trelewis to relink to the Cwmbargoed line would be made!

 

[swcovas]

I would like to see just how the link from Quakers Yard to Treharris and then to Trelewis to relink to the Cwmbargoed line would be made!

Yes, I had wondered about that too. Wasn't the connection at Quaker's Yard to Treharris from the Merthyr direction? Is the trackebed still available? No development taken place since closure?

 

[Quakers Yard]

Yes, I had wondered about that too. Wasn't the connection at Quaker's Yard to Treharris from the Merthyr direction? Is the trackebed still available? No development taken place since closure?

Plenty of development i'm afaid.
The Taff Vale estate is opposite my house on the QY higher route.
The line through Treharris and Trelewis is built on also.
It will never happen I must say.