Metrolink through Wythenshawe

[Xenophon PCDGS]

From the route plans submitted, what might be specific problems?

 

[Nym]

Lets start from the top...

1) Nimbyism of tree destruction on Mauldeth Road West
2) The 'impossible to build' Hardy Lane extention is now going to be built as Metrolink Line, when Hardy Lane is in desprate need of extention to Sale Water Park to remove a missing movment from the M60/A5103 Junction (The metrolink line should be combined with a D2 road to Sale Water Park, providing a D2 link from the M60/A6144 (Sale Water Park) to the A5103 (Princess Road), a big missing link that currently causes a lot of traffic in Sale and Stretford, that is forced to use the A5145 and A6010, as I always have to, to access Didsbury from the West)
3) Grossly underestimating the car parking demand at Sale Water Park P&R Facilities, and travel demand for passengers using such a service.
4) Taking up a possoble alignment of HS2 between the M60 and Wythenshawe Road.
5) Proximity to Wythanshawe Hospital may cause problems for ambulance access during Engineering Works.
6) Closure of Hollwedge Road during works, there isn't another way round for ambulances without using simmonsway, that can be congested at any time.
7) Complex interworking of signalling around Robinswood Road Station, next to the roundabout.
8) The line between Shaddowmoss and Airport runs dangerously close to the ILS Glideslope for EGCC 27R, signalling systems may interfere with the ILS signals and/or vice versa.
9) It removed any chance of completion of the SEMMIS project, connecting the Airport Spur of the M56 to the A555, that is desprate for completion, and will be required for any kind of HS Station at Manchester Airport as a fast link to the now very upgraded A34 will be needed
10) The proposed location of the Airport station is stupid
11) The airport station should be configued as a through station with links onwards to Terminal 2 and the car park facilities at Manchester Airport. Possibly looping round into Alt'ham to provide a much needed link.

 

[tbtc]

From the route plans submitted, what might be specific problems?

I love the way these threads start like essay questions

 

[Nym]

And I always awnswer in bullet points, ever the engineer

EDIT: Well done for spelling Wythenshawe correctly, it tends to escape most pepole, always a good way of stopping pepole complain at work, "If you can spell Wythenshawe on the address you can write a complaint"

 

[northwichcat]

Aren't they also proposing to close a section of the Transpennine way with the alternative route involving non-accessible steps, as well as making some people living on the new tram route lose their street parking?

 

[WatcherZero]

They actually proposed to keep it open with a steps and cycle groove together with a signposted wheelchair freindly diversion but local residents wanted it closed completley and diverted away from the line around the obstruction for both wheelchair and non-disabled access. Theres also a campaign to have the transpennine way leave the Metrolink line and follow the canal side for part of the route.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I love the way these threads start like essay questions

Unfortunately, having been a lecturer in my early days after leaving university in 1966 until I commenced a career in industry, this has been ingrained within my thinking. But it does have the effect of stimulating a better quality of discussion than a bland-sounding question. Look at the quality of the first few posters who have responded to my new thread.

I must confess, I still like starting debates similar to:-
Oldham Athletic's name shows a conflict of actual fitness....discuss

 

[The Snap]

I must confess, I still like starting debates similar to:-
Oldham Athletic's name shows a conflict of actual fitness....discuss

I love that! .

It is interesting to read this thread because at present I am on the Oldham Rochdale line as a Site Engineer. As part of the recent restructuring of the line's organisation, I am on OR2 (which consists of everything between Newton Heath/Dean Lane and Oldham Mumps), which is due to be handed over in September (ish). Now with OR3 (so everything from Mumps to Rochdale) being fully resourced in terms of engineering staff, the majority of us on OR2 are expecting to be transferred to the Airport line later this year to commence the building work further up that line.

So like I say it’s interesting to read these comments because it gives me a good idea of what to expect in September!

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Nym]

Yeah, expect much NIMBYism at tree clearence on Mauldeth Road West, and me bitching about Hardy Lane not being extended (as it would cut 15mins off my journey into Manchester).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So like I say it’s interesting to read these comments because it gives me a good idea of what to expect in September!

Cheers,
Rich

Is there any truth in the scurillous rumour that when the Metrolink works in Wythenshawe begin, 3 Para will be withdrawn from Afghanistan and seconded to Metrolink where their knowledge of fighting off insurgents will be quite useful?

 

[Nym]

Weather it be true or not, prepare to loose a lot of equipment...

 

[tbtc]

I love that! .

It is interesting to read this thread because at present I am on the Oldham Rochdale line as a Site Engineer. As part of the recent restructuring of the line's organisation, I am on OR2 (which consists of everything between Newton Heath/Dean Lane and Oldham Mumps), which is due to be handed over in September (ish). Now with OR3 (so everything from Mumps to Rochdale) being fully resourced in terms of engineering staff, the majority of us on OR2 are expecting to be transferred to the Airport line later this year to commence the building work further up that line.

So like I say it’s interesting to read these comments because it gives me a good idea of what to expect in September!

Cheers,
Rich

How are things coming along? There have been a few projects hit by delays in recent years/ badly "managed", so it'd be good to have some positive news from the "front line"

 

[The Snap]

Is there any truth in the scurillous rumour that when the Metrolink works in Wythenshawe begin, 3 Para will be withdrawn from Afghanistan and seconded to Metrolink where their knowledge of fighting off insurgents will be quite useful?

I beleive top MI5 security specialists will be on hand to ensure any equipment remains in safe MPT hands! . The Oldham Rochdale line has had its fair share of problems, most recently it's cables I heard yesterday...
Thales did a full cable installation at one of the stops a few Saturdays ago, by Monday morning, it has ALL gone...:roll:

How are things coming along? There have been a few projects hit by delays in recent years/ badly "managed", so it'd be good to have some positive news from the "front line"

Without going into too much detail, it is my understanding that things are going pretty smoothly. Obviously OR1 to Central Park isn't quite ready and so is slightly delayed, but other than that all is good AFAIK .

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Oldham Rochdale line has had its fair share of problems, most recently it's cables I heard yesterday...
Thales did a full cable installation at one of the stops a few Saturdays ago, by Monday morning, it has ALL gone...:roll:

This would be something to consider as a Site Engineer, as a most specific training aid, to your new secondment later this year to this former part of Cheshire.

They say that there has been a significent rise of the price of copper on the Futures Market on the Benchill Stock Exchange .

 

[tbtc]

Without going into too much detail, it is my understanding that things are going pretty smoothly. Obviously OR1 to Central Park isn't quite ready and so is slightly delayed, but other than that all is good AFAIK .

Cheers Rich, good to see some projects can be managed without going several years overdue

 

[WestCoast]

most recently it's cables I heard yesterday...
Thales did a full cable installation at one of the stops a few Saturdays ago, by Monday morning, it has ALL gone...:roll:

Cable theft is an out-of-control problem, something has to be done. It's an extremely frustrating thing, plus public money is being spent needlessly thanks to these criminals.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There will be similar occurrences on this new line. It will be far too much a temptation to resist and there are always unscrupulous metal merchants who will make large profits from those who steal who then bring the goods to them.

 

[185]

From the route plans submitted, what might be specific problems?

12. The locals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-13616599
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-11612477
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/5351696.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7070687.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7847098.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shameless

 

[WestCoast]

12. The locals.

Expect Cable Theft. Passengers coming from the Airport on the tram will be greeted with Wythenshawe as one of the first things they see.

In all seriousness, has anyone ever been on the Dublin LUAS? They have far more problems than the Manchester Metrolink does, partly because one of the tram lines is used as a system to transport drug addicts between clinics and it passes through some rough areas. They have bouncers at some of the city centre stops (and on night trams) to clear beggars away from soliciting change at the ticket machines. Some of the sights on the tram are quite something else!

The Tube/DLR/Inner London Trains seem to manage OK though, of course you are going to get problems in these sorts of areas. I am sure this can also be seen on the Glossop line out of Piccadilly, calling at places like Hattersley.

 

[Samtron2000]

But few passengers coming into MAN will use the trams to get to town. That isn't the point of this line. The trains from the airport will always remain the most direct route to the city centre! The point of the wythenshawe lineis to provide the people of wythy a means of rail transport to elsewhere. The snobbery being displayed on this threat is pretty sad. Where the Eccles line passes through Weaste and Langworthy is just as rough, if not more so!!

 

[WestCoast]

But few passengers coming into MAN will use the trams to get to town. That isn't the point of this line. The trains from the airport will always remain the most direct route to the city centre!

Yes, of course, but some people will choose the trams to access certain areas - say the Manchester Central complex or MediaCityUK. Not everyone wants to head for Piccadilly, plus with Manchester's ticketing it may well be cheaper to use the trams as part of a day ticket. At times when the airport train service is less frequent, the trams may also play a role.

The point of the wythenshawe lineis to provide the people of wythy a means of rail transport to elsewhere. The snobbery being displayed on this threat is pretty sad. Where the Eccles line passes through Weaste and Langworthy is just as rough, if not more so!!

It's still the Airport line, and not the Wythenshawe Line. While one of its purposes may be to provide rapid transport links from Wythenshawe, it also has many other purposes, including providing direct and frequent links to the Airport from Chorlton and between different communities.

I don't agree with the snobbery bit either! Wythenshawe has a certain degree of notoriety concerning anti-social behaviour and vandalism. As always, the vast majority of people are decent and honest, but the minority ruin things and make life difficult!

I've experienced first hand the problems at Meadow Well station on the Tyne & Wear Metro which serves a large estate with a 'troubled' past, it's become a big concern for the local authorities there and many residents have been put off using the system.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The point of the wythenshawe lineis to provide the people of wythy a means of rail transport to elsewhere. The snobbery being displayed on this threat is pretty sad.

Is this really the case....shall we examine a matter that occurred this week?

In Wythenshawe Park, in a centre set up to provide children with the chance to see small creatures and birds, a group of the local youths aged 18 to 13 made an attack on this centre:-

Beheading of birds

A frog being speared

Countless panes of glass in greenhouses smashed

Perhaps this is a local custom, but it is not one that normal people would regard as acceptable behaviour in a Western democracy.

In the past, when a bus company called The Bee Line Buzz Company set up minibus routes in Wythenshawe, the buses were attacked from the first day of service.

 

[Nym]

Well, have you seen the state of the new buses that stagecoach are running on the 43, thats kind of indicative as to what will happen with the trams when they do that way.

 

[185]

To be honest, I think it will depend on the quality of the informaton and signage at the airport as knowing GMPTE they will spend a fortune on publicity for it, and passengers arriving for the first time at the airport will head for it rather that the train, not realising how painfully slow it is.

 

[Nym]

Well, I don't work there any more, and even if I did, I'd drive there... so it doesn't concern me

But yes, the idiots airline passengers will use whatever looks shinyest. I've know the fools wait an hour for the 'direct' train rather than just getting the next alternative route. Or even wait for a TPE unit to take them to piccadilly because they don't like the look of a 323

You only need to look at any WDFE store and realise that passengers like shiney objects...

 

[WestCoast]

But yes, the idiots airline passengers will use whatever looks shinyest. I've know the fools wait an hour for the 'direct' train rather than just getting the next alternative route. Or even wait for a TPE unit to take them to piccadilly because they don't like the look of a 323

I think it's great when the Southport service is a Pacer, it gives the airline passengers an authentic experience of local rail travel outside of London. Although, having said that airline passengers (on the budget airlines at least) have to be smart nowadays, if they want to avoid being charged extra in fees for various things.

Knowing TfGM, they'll probably offer the cheaper day tickets for the tram to lure more passengers away from the faster trains.

 

[Prodigy]

Of course the main problem is the locals, but really guys we can't go around worrying about these 'chavs' or however you want to label them nowadays. Railway vandalism is a huge issue in lots of places...surprisingly Mossley has it! So yes, you can worry, or you can just get on with it, I'm sure many of these Chavs will be to busy hanging out in there park to get on the trams...besides if the Metrolink staff do regular ticket checks on platforms non of them will get a sniff of the trams.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Back on the subject of the Metrolink, I am somewhat confused by the line taking a route through what is now the roundabout at the intersection of Simonsway and Brownley Road.

If this does happen, can anyone show how the existing road junction would be remodelled which will not cause traffic build-ups on either Simonsway and Brownley Road, as these are major traffic roads in that area.

 

[Nym]

Paul, this is the same PTE that cancelled 23 road projects in Greater Manchester, including 5 major motorway extentions, and a downgrading of the country's first motorway standard road by putting traffic lights on it. You really think they give a damn about simmonsway?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Paul, this is the same PTE that cancelled 23 road projects in Greater Manchester, including 5 major motorway extentions, and a downgrading of the country's first motorway standard road by putting traffic lights on it. You really think they give a damn about simmonsway?

They should do. It is the main arterial west to east road through Wythenshawe from the Heald Green border to junction 4 on the M56.

The SEMMS cancellation of the final phase of the A555 from Handforth to Manchester Airport means that all airport bound traffic not using the motorway is channelled through Heald Green on Finney Lane to its junction with Simonsway at the Styal Road intersection junction.