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Metrolink ticket inspection increase?

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thenorthern

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Recently on the Manchester Metrolink I have noticed that the number of random ticket checks that they are doing particularly at Manchester Piccadilly, is the amount of ticket checks increasing or is it just I am noticing them more?

I never have any issue with ticket inspectors as I always have a ticket however I know I shouldn't laugh at other people's misfortune but it is always funny to see people get charged the "standard fare" of £100 for not having a ticket.

Personally I have no sympathy for people who travel without tickets, if you are not willing to pay for a ticket you shouldn't travel simple as.
 
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yorkie

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We have at least one Metrolink inspector on this forum, so I'm sure you'll get an answer shortly...! (I'll alert him to this thread now)
 

323235

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Metrolink tend to do quite a lot of blocks out of the city centre from what I've seen, it maybe the case that you just don't always see what they are doing.
 

familyguy99

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yorkie

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That's a different story to other lines I'm sure, as I recall being on other trams and only a small percentage were issued penalty notices (or whatever they call them).

I remember being one of many on a tram to Altrincham who presented train tickets to Altrincham, which were all accepted without question, and I only later found out on this forum that they weren't valid!
 

WatcherZero

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I think official statistics are its around 6%, obviously certain areas and times have higher than average. Theyve issued between 1000 and 1500 penalties a month during the last year and its been pretty constant rate. Looking at the last month planned revenue protection operations I have breakdown figures for (April) 16,000 tickets checked, 553 standard fares issued, 2 people arrested, so thats 3.5%. They plan the blocking operations to target locations which they suspect have high fare evasion rates, usually this is near low income neighbourhoods.
 
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Chapeltom

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I have used Metrolink for last 4-5 years but only occasionally and have almost always been on a tram which has been inspected. Can inspections really increase? :o

I don't understand why anyone, given the high chance of being caught would even take the chance of not paying! It boggles the mind, especially with the £100 standard fare which ought to be a deterrent in itself.
 

Jeni

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I use the Bury line about once a month on a Sunday, nearly always get checked.

Interestingly a couple of months ago, I got on a MediaCityUK tram at Pic Gardens, inspectors already on the tram stood in the doorways and checked tickets as people got on. It was peak time, nobody was expecting it so nobody had tickets out and ready - caused quite a delay!
 

yorkie

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Is Metrolink the only system where revenue protection - on the rare occasions that it does occur - comes before timekeeping?

I recall FGW gateline staff at Paddington wanting LU to delay a train over a revenue matter. LU refused as timekeeping is a priority, so the revenue staff pretended someone had a gun.

On the Metrolink, it seems that the delays are to be expected when there's a revenue check, and it takes as long as it takes. Some forum members may recall me having a go at some chav a few years ago as our tram wasn't going to move until he co-operated. In hindsight, given how bad some of the chavs in Manchester are, it was possibly a risky move!
 

thenorthern

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Is Metrolink the only system where revenue protection - on the rare occasions that it does occur - comes before timekeeping?

The ticket check is done within a minute when the tram is stopped but at other times its just done by someone who boards the tram at random checks tickets and gets off at the next stop, I don't think the delay involved is that big.
 

WatcherZero

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When they do a full block you have 2 staff members entering at each of the four doors (and more on the platforms to catch runners) working their way down takes less than 30 seconds. Occasionally you will see two or sometimes a small group board and then ride the tram checking tickets en route, often get the feel this is near the start or end of a shift as they are filling in paperwork and tallying up.
 
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yorkie

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The ticket check is done within a minute when the tram is stopped but at other times its just done by someone who boards the tram at random checks tickets and gets off at the next stop, I don't think the delay involved is that big.
I'm sure it isn't normally that big.
 

thenorthern

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Maybe the fare dodgers should do what I do, I never have any problems with RPIs or British Transport Police when I travel on the train or the Metrolink and its a magical way its called I buy a ticket.

On a serious note though is there a number of times one can be issued with a fine before TfGM take the offender to court?
 

185

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Some offenders go straight to court if the offence is serious enough, such as preparation of a fraudulent ticket, or refusing to co-operate with the inspectors, walking off then getting grabbed by plain clothes police. There is no limit to the amount of £100 "Standard Fares" (£50 if paid within 2 weeks) someone can have - not paying them is where the offence is created.

The number of station blocks has risen recently at Manchester Piccadilly. It's not deliberately been targeted, it's just handy for poor weather (roof overhead) and easier to manage, with few exits from the platform. That said, these have been rather productive, and it is interesting to find some of the tickets being used for months on trains upstairs that have been err... 'made at home', or those who thought they'd chance a free journey in the city during busy periods.

Gateway operations (station blocks) run across the whole system, as punctuality is a bit more fluid here, the whole system of stopping the vehicle usually takes a minute - tied with the normal dwell time of a vehicle at stations, done correctly it adds perhaps 40-50 seconds to the service time. Services already running considerably late sometimes get left alone to make up time. Where possible 4 staff get on, 4 on a single or 2+2 on a double, or more if staff are not 'dealing' (with passengers). Some passengers repeatedly complain about these checks, but these are mostly the ones who are regularly found minus ticket.

In dealing with the quite small minority of those who don't cooperate with staff and leave the vehicle, or walk off and fail to give details, GM Police are often on stations during station blocks. In addition BTP assist quite often at the rail station they run through. A number of Special Constables exist amongst the tram and bus operators, and TfGM bus station and office staff so, as a last resort, many teams of inspectors have someone in authority with them should it be needed.

As Metrolink continues to expand, the number of checks will rise accordingly. That said, I believe a lot of discretion and common sense is used by staff in considering whether to apply the standard fare.
 

WatcherZero

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Police also apparently when running the given address see if there is outstanding warrants, they also verify the address and giving a false address is an arrestable offence.
 

Bungle965

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When i use the metrolink they seem to concentrate there ticket inspections on the bury line normally checking them at qweens road i find it quite rare for them to check it any where else.
 

185

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When i use the metrolink they seem to concentrate there ticket inspections on the bury line normally checking them at qweens road i find it quite rare for them to check it any where else.

They are all over, but Queens Road is right outside a depot, so it's an easy one to put extra checks on there, just like Old Trafford. Checks are done all over on a regular basis - not unusual for teams of staff to be sent all over.

Police do a thorough check where practical - it's of benefit to them to assist on operations given the amount of people of interest and their.. err... 'possessions'. :)
 

mirodo

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I used to know a guy who commuted from Altrincham into Manchester every day (many years ago). He never bought a ticket - at the time he claimed that the inspections were so infrequent, and the penalty fare so low that he saved a considerable amount in comparison to buying a weekly/monthly ticket.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I used to know a guy who commuted from Altrincham into Manchester every day (many years ago). He never bought a ticket - at the time he claimed that the inspections were so infrequent, and the penalty fare so low that he saved a considerable amount in comparison to buying a weekly/monthly ticket.

What a sad reflection this is of life values espoused by those who will doubtlessly pass them on to their offspring....<(
 

thenorthern

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They were out in force at Deansgate-Castlefield and Piccadilly today, saw some people get fines but I have no sympathy if you don't have a ticket you don't travel.

With the Altringham to Manchester City Centre story it doesn't surprise me, a few years ago I was in Manchester with a couple of mates and one of them said "there is no reason to buy a ticket they never check" luckily for her I convinced her otherwise because there was a ticket check that day and I saved her quite a big fine.
 

Antman

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I used to know a guy who commuted from Altrincham into Manchester every day (many years ago). He never bought a ticket - at the time he claimed that the inspections were so infrequent, and the penalty fare so low that he saved a considerable amount in comparison to buying a weekly/monthly ticket.

I've heard similar on Croydon Tramlink and at peak times when trams are packed a ticket check is physically impossible anyway, and I wonder how many of those who do get 'caught' give false details anyway?
 

mirodo

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I've heard similar on Croydon Tramlink and at peak times when trams are packed a ticket check is physically impossible anyway, and I wonder how many of those who do get 'caught' give false details anyway?

Stagecoach have only recently had the bright idea of introducing a fenced off queueing system for those waiting for a post-match Supertram at the Leppings Lane stop near Sheffield Wednesday's ground. Until then, there was no way a ticket check was possible - I imagine a large majority of those travelling would have doing so without tickets.

With regards to Croydon Tramlink, I get checked fairly frequently when I travel on there.
 

edwin_m

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Stagecoach have only recently had the bright idea of introducing a fenced off queueing system for those waiting for a post-match Supertram at the Leppings Lane stop near Sheffield Wednesday's ground. Until then, there was no way a ticket check was possible - I imagine a large majority of those travelling would have doing so without tickets.

Metrolink has these at both Old Trafford and the Etihad. The main motivation was crowd control but no doubt it helps with revenue protection too. The trick with big events is to encourage people to buy returns before they set out to the venue, rather than queue for the machines there afterwards. Even more of a problem for Supertram with conductors instead of machines!
 

Jonfun

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I agree with the assertion that ticket inspections are getting more regular, but I disagree with any suggestion that this makes them more effective. Having paid my (somewhat inflated) fare last week, I was somewhat aggrieved when the revenue inspector watched two teenage girls switch tickets, passing one between them, and said nothing, and also let off someone using a concessionary pass well before time, who clearly knew what they were doing. I don't for a second suggest that I feel I shouldn't have to pay my fare - morally, it's the right thing to do. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a revenue inspector to conduct his duties correctly, and not take the easy option of ignoring blatant fare evasion, which just increases the problem for his colleagues.
 

causton

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I've heard similar on Croydon Tramlink and at peak times when trams are packed a ticket check is physically impossible anyway, and I wonder how many of those who do get 'caught' give false details anyway?

Only ever seen one Croydon Tramlink inspection the tram was quite full but they used 4 or 5 RPIs to 'push' (not literally, but walk them out of the tram) any fare evaders into a corner against a wall and a fence at a tram stop after the tram stopped at the next stop so they could get their details and issue PFs as appropriate! Seemed quite efficient...!
 

Antman

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I agree with the assertion that ticket inspections are getting more regular, but I disagree with any suggestion that this makes them more effective. Having paid my (somewhat inflated) fare last week, I was somewhat aggrieved when the revenue inspector watched two teenage girls switch tickets, passing one between them, and said nothing, and also let off someone using a concessionary pass well before time, who clearly knew what they were doing. I don't for a second suggest that I feel I shouldn't have to pay my fare - morally, it's the right thing to do. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a revenue inspector to conduct his duties correctly, and not take the easy option of ignoring blatant fare evasion, which just increases the problem for his colleagues.

I have noticed exactly the same sort of thing on the Croydon trams. One prime example, about four inspectors boarded at Sandilands one evening and had two PCSO's with them. They all stood chatting to each other until we had left the next stop (Lebanon Road) and then they came round asking for tickets. I can only assume that they were giving those without tickets the opportunity to get off and thus giving themselves an easy life?
 

Jonny

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Police also apparently when running the given address see if there is outstanding warrants, they also verify the address and giving a false address is an arrestable offence.

How do you check addresses of those who (for whatever reason) aren't on the electoral roll etc. ?
 
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